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Relative reliability of the C63 versus an "exotic"!
As C63 owners, we might at times get annoyed about things like leaking intake manifolds, stinky AC air, rear tire wear, and the relative complexity of transmission fluid changes. But it could be a LOT worse if we had instead bought an "exotic", low production volume car!
A few months ago, my son bought what many consider an "entry level" exotic: a 2002 Dodge Viper. The Viper is apparently considered a relatively "easier" to maintain exotic car.because it uses primarily inexpensive Chrysler components for many of the key systems.
And, the Viper attracts buyers because it looks pretty good:
However, as my son has apparently discovered, there are a few unexpected glitches:
- You can only wash a Viper using a bucket and an un-nozzled hose, and even then you need to be careful. If you get even a small amount of water inside a door, you will be unable to get into the car! The wiring was apparently not very waterproof. When this happens, you need to wait until it dries out
- The taillights also sometimes stop working. Apparently, this can be due to either of 2 problems that occur sporadically. One is the same lack of waterproofing that plagues the doors. The other is that on some Vipers the wiring connections fail and have to be traced and repaired.
- The air conditioning system is known for frequent failure due to recurring leaks
- Even with the AC working, the cabin gets super hot because of the routing of the exhaust pipes along the left and perimeters of the passenger compartment.
- You cannot leave the car without running it for more than a couple of weeks. If you do, the battery gets discharged because the ECU of that 2002 vintage draws enough power when sitting to discharge the battery. When the battery discharges, you apparently also cannot open the doors to get into the car. Then there's the problem of battery access . . .
- The battery is located in front of and above the left rear tire. To access it to replace it, here are the steps:
- Loosen the lugnuts on the left rear tire
- Jack up the car
- Remove the left rear wheel
- Crawl underneath and remove a panel inside the fender
- Remove a brace that holds the battery in position
- While nestled under the car, inside the fender, disconnect the battery terminals
- While nestled under the car, inside the fender, remove the (large) battery
- reverse the entire process to install the new battery
So, I guess a C63 is relatively "simple" to own (and not THAT expensive if you have a warranty ).
My son is amazed to hear that in the few weeks I have owned my 5-year old C63, I have had to do NOTHING to keep it running.
Mr BLKROKT I really can't see how you have a problem with this. He has a lot of time to write, and some people have time to read.
You like to point out the search feature & google to newbs asking standard questions, which is reasonable, so isn't it equally reasonable for you to use the same tools to filter through stuff you don't want to see?
Mr BLKROKT I really can't see how you have a problem with this. He has a lot of time to write, and some people have time to read.
You like to point out the search feature & google to newbs asking standard questions, which is reasonable, so isn't it equally reasonable for you to use the same tools to filter through stuff you don't want to see?
Great that he has time to write. Fantastic that he adds things. But he is doing it in the wrong place.
Im a new guy around here and do tons of reading. But seeing the SAME old threads pop up with SAME old members complaining that you need SEARCH or GOOGLE first and if you dont, then you'll be shamed for the rest of eternity is just annoying.
I'm guessing the issues w your posts might be generational in nature.... Millennial vs gen x or baby boomer. Don't sweat it. I enjoy the refreshing content.
Not sure when the internet reverted 1930's Germany?
Don't allow yourself to be cyber bullied by the keyboard Cowboys. )
Im a new guy around here and do tons of reading. But seeing the SAME old threads pop up with SAME old members complaining that you need SEARCH or GOOGLE first and if you dont, then you'll be shamed for the rest of eternity is just annoying.
Keep up the good posts Jim.
Weird, who said anything about searching in here? YOU!
And why do the "SAME old threads" pop up? Because nobody searches. I don't even care if people are like "Hey, not searching, what is xyz?" But people come in here and say "Oh my god I have search the forum up and down and left and right, all over! And I just CANNOT figure out what this light tapping is on startup that eventually goes away and no CELs."
Once again though, who said anything about searching in here?
Plain and simple, this post was about problems with a 2002 Dodge Viper. Nothing to do with a C63 or a Mercedes at that.
I will say, it's a 2002. There are going to be problems. Same issue when people buy an NSX or a Supra, they expect a "new car sport" experience. It's old.
Wrong forums.
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Originally Posted by betrezra
Jim-- agree the c63 has been pretty trouble free.
I'm guessing the issues w your posts might be generational in nature.... Millennial vs gen x or baby boomer. Don't sweat it. I enjoy the refreshing content.
Not sure when the internet reverted 1930's Germany?
Don't allow yourself to be cyber bullied by the keyboard Cowboys. )
I can't help to think that maybe, just maybe, this is directed to me. So I might as well respond.
It's pretty simple. This is the C63 subforum. This content has nothing to do with a C63. That's what the other sub-forums are for as Kiva so helpfully pointed out above.
There are sub-forums for a reason. There's a search button for a reason. I'm anything but a bully. I'm just tired of new people - whether they are millenials or senior citizens or green or blue or from ****ing Mars I don't care what - not understanding or caring how things work here (and this is pretty standard across the internet) even after it's been explained to them. This is a fun forum with tons of relevant content, and most of us do our best to keep it that way. If the most basic of forum rules (relevancy) and general standards of forum consideration (search) are not followed, then what's the point.
This isn't a personal blog. This isn't the place to post random non-relevant things. This isn't the place to post your financial status and look for a life-coach. This isn't the place to post political discussion. This isn't the place to talk about guns, or hunting, or knitting. This isn't the place to look for a date. It's all pretty simple. I think most of us would also agree that the non-searching and posting of old topics by new people is getting on everyone's nerves, and if it isn't then a) you either haven't been here long enough, or b) you're one of them.
People who continually demonstrate that they are incapable of understanding this or make an active choice not to (which one is it here, probably a little of both), degrade the forum quality for the majority of people who come here specifically for C63 content. The forum standards were kept in line by members before us, and that's why it's still a relatively nice place for us to be now. If the members who care about this place and are enthusiasts about this platform don't continue to keep it on point, it's going to become just another irrelevant free-for-all like I've seen too many other forums become once the platform hits a certain age. I don't think any of us want that, and yes I'm going to continue to point out this stupidity whenever I can to do my part. You don't like it or think I'm a "bully"? Tough. Stupid people only respond when their stupidity is spelled out very clearly, or overwhelmed with even more stupidity.
There are plenty of sub-forums here, and they are all pretty active. A lot of C63 owners are active there in fact. So the vast majority of people from their other car model sub-forums clearly go use them for their intended purpose, and therefore wouldn't want to see off-topic stuff in their model-focused forum either. All sorts of great sub-forums exist for practically any kind of rambling that our verbose friend here wants to do, and there are tons of people to listen to it because that's what they're there for. It's not that these anything-but-elusive sub-forums are hard to find or not active, so have at it. Content should go where it belongs, that's why it was set up this way. Just having "C63" in the title doesn't make it so.
It's pretty simple, but I guess you can't teach an old dog new tricks.
I can't help to think that maybe, just maybe, this is directed to me. So I might as well respond.
It's pretty simple. This is the C63 subforum. This content has nothing to do with a C63. That's what the other sub-forums are for as Kiva so helpfully pointed out above.
There are sub-forums for a reason. There's a search button for a reason. I'm anything but a bully. I'm just tired of new people - whether they are millenials or senior citizens or green or blue or from ****ing Mars I don't care what - not understanding or caring how things work here (and this is pretty standard across the internet) even after it's been explained to them. This is a fun forum with tons of relevant content, and most of us do our best to keep it that way. If the most basic of forum rules (relevancy) and general standards of forum consideration (search) are not followed, then what's the point.
This isn't a personal blog. This isn't the place to post random non-relevant things. This isn't the place to post your financial status and look for a life-coach. This isn't the place to post political discussion. This isn't the place to look for a date. It's all pretty simple. I think we'd all agree that the non-searching and posting of old topics by new people is getting on everyone's nerves, and if it isn't then a) you either haven't been here long enough, or b) you're one of them. And people who continually demonstrate that they are incapable of understanding this or make an active choice not to (which one is it here, probably a little of both), degrade the forum quality for the majority of people who come here specifically for C63 content. The forum standards were kept in line by members before us, and that's why it's a nice place for us to be now. If the members who care about this place and are enthusiasts about this platform don't continue to keep it on point, it's going to become just another irrelevant free-for-all like I've seen too many other forums become. I don't think any of us want that.
There are plenty of sub-forums here, and they are all pretty active. A lot of C63 owners are active there in fact. So the vast majority of people from their other car model sub-forums clearly go use them for their intended purpose, and therefore wouldn't want to see the off-topic stuff here. All sorts of great sub-forums exist for practically any kind of rambling that our verbose friend here wants to do, and there are tons of people to listen to it because that's what they're there for. It's not that these anything-but-elusive sub-forums hard to find or not active. Content should go where it belongs, that's all.
It's pretty simple, but I guess you can't teach an old dog new tricks.
A nice post that does have good points to understand and abide by, BUT, the whole point of my specific post here was to remind C63 owners specifically that for a high horsepower, great handling, somewhat rare car, the C63 is pretty remarkably troublefree and relatively easy to maintain.
Moving such a posting to an "any other brand/model car" subforum just makes it less likely that a C63 owner will even see it at all.
I've owned a LOT of cars over half a century, and frankly, the idea of buying a C63 scared me, because it's a very complex car in terms of engineering, and a car whose replacement parts are very costly, and I remembered all too well the frustrations I have experienced with some other costly brands and low volume models, where the complexity exceeded the manufacturer's ability to produce the car properly (a 2002 Corvette Z06 being a prime example - MANY technical service bulletins). But, I had never owned or experienced a Mercedes, and my wife and I both thought it might be something I should do at least once.
i know it's only been a few weeks, but so far, I am impressed. It's a complex, 5-year old car in which everything still works, that is "easy" to live with daily (compared to my Corvettes and my son's Viper), and that continues to impress me each time I drive it. For a low volume, complex car, that is a real manufacturing achievement, and I say that based on half a century of seeing other manufacturers and models too often miss the mark.
betrrezra - first of all, I want to be clear, I have no bone to pick with you here.
This is just my own personal opinion, and I only use this quote because it neatly encapsulates a reasonably common and, frankly, reasonably understandable viewpoint. And, tbh, I don't think this is the worst thread, as there is a tenuous connection as we kinda sorta compare another car to the C63. In a way, I suppose.
BUT.
Why is this other type of content 'refreshing'?
Cos not everyone posts it.
Why doesn't everybody post it?
Cos, this particular sub-forum is for posts regarding the C63.
This type of material is 'refreshing' because of it's unique nature.
Everybody likes a little banter, right? Right.
So lets extend this out a bit.
Let's suppose everyone loves this 'off topic' type stuff and starts to run with it.
Let's suppose no one 'polices' it.
Then this forum is filled with refreshing, off topic threads.
How long will it be before we cannot easily find the C63 threads*?
How long will it be before we have threads about the best meatloaf recipe?
It's sort of inevitable, cos its a slippery slope.
And if no one polices its, who decides when to say when?
No one, so it will inevitably devolve.
Cos here is the thing......
Whether it is posts about Vipers or meatloaf, they ALL gum up the search engines.
When I am looking for information about my battery, I don't want to find info on how to change the battery in a Viper, or read about a failing battery in a kitchen scale when making meatloaf.
THAT seems reasonable to me.
There are other forums/sub-forums for those things, and thats where they belong.
This is not it.
This is for fact based information pertaining to C63s.
Not even really about E63s, and they have the same damn motor most years.
There is another sub-forum for that.
I do not think it is too much to ask that people search for info first in order to avoid redundancy (both of questions AND answers).
I do not think it is too much to ask that people stay on the topic that brought us all here in the first place.
Especially since there are off topic forums.
And Viper forums, and meatloaf forums.
Its the internet. There are lots of little corners.
Thats very cool. But that vastness can make it hard to find things.
When we go hunting for them, we originally needed to use a shotgun.
Something that spreads far and wide, like google.
Now we have found this place.
Now we can use a rifle.
Now can use a targeted search approach.
But only if people stay on target and on topic.
That topic, in this SUB-forum, is C63's.
Look, I like the people here, I like the flow and the give and take here, so I don't actually usually pop off about this stuff when it happens. But its being discussed, and I am a reasonably active member of 6 years, so I should get in this discussion re my community. It is being discussed more cos it is happening more, and it is happening more cos of a few individuals who are treating this like a personal blog and posting at a stupendous rate.
I don't intend this to be a personal attack so I wont name names, but when members post on pace for 1500+ posts a year and a good deal of it is lengthy, off topic info or queries, thats too damn much, and i personally believe it is right that people speak up.
The only method we have of 'policing' this is via members speaking up, and if some members did not do that this place WOULD devolve. We would all stand by and watch this place decline. The 'keyboard cowboys' keep stuff in check. If you don't want to do it, don't begrudge them doing it, cos it helps make it possible for us to quickly search and find info we need. Maybe not everyone gets style points for their technique, but blunt is the only thing that works, and sometimes not even then. Mods are all but useless here. Community members are all we have. They are not the problem. They are not trying to say who can post, they are merely asking them to take it to the appropriate forum.
Why are they doing it? Cos the moderation here is crap. There. I said it. If the mods were involved and taking care of it then other guys wouldnt feel compelled to jump in and that would end a lot of this squabbling. This place is one big free for all cos the moderation is crap and we have been left to our own devices, to police ourselves, and it shows.....both in tone and content.
But, this is easy. This is a binary choice. It is either on topic or its not, and if its not there are other forums for that. Its so damn simple that I dont get how others dont get it. Its exhausting.
I repeat, contrary to some, ITS JUST PLAIN NOT A GODDAMN PERSONAL BLOG. I don't care that your sisters uncles brothers cousin is wondering if they can afford to finance a Toyota Yaris, and should they finance or lease or get blue or orange, or where should they go to eat to celebrate after they get it, and do they have good meatloaf there.
THIS IS A FORUM FOR INFO PERTAINING TO AND RELATED TO C63 AMG'S
THIS IS A FORUM FOR INFO PERTAINING TO AND RELATED TO C63 AMG'S
THIS IS A FORUM FOR INFO PERTAINING TO AND RELATED TO C63 AMG'S
It just doesn't get much simpler than that.
(*note that I said threads, and not posts, as we get off topic all the time with individual posts. That happens, thats conversation, and its unavoidable)
betrrezra - first of all, I want to be clear, I have no bone to pick with you here.
This is just my own personal opinion, and I only use this quote because it neatly encapsulates a reasonably common and, frankly, reasonably understandable viewpoint. And, tbh, I don't think this is the worst thread, as there is a tenuous connection as we kinda sorta compare another car to the C63. In a way, I suppose.
BUT.
Why is this other type of content 'refreshing'?
Cos not everyone posts it.
Why doesn't everybody post it?
Cos, this particular sub-forum is for posts regarding the C63.
This type of material is 'refreshing' because of it's unique nature.
Everybody likes a little banter, right? Right.
So lets extend this out a bit.
Let's suppose everyone loves this 'off topic' type stuff and starts to run with it.
Let's suppose no one 'polices' it.
Then this forum is filled with refreshing, off topic threads.
How long will it be before we cannot easily find the C63 threads*?
How long will it be before we have threads about the best meatloaf recipe?
It's sort of inevitable, cos its a slippery slope.
And if no one polices its, who decides when to say when?
No one, so it will inevitably devolve.
Cos here is the thing......
Whether it is posts about Vipers or meatloaf, they ALL gum up the search engines.
When I am looking for information about my battery, I don't want to find info on how to change the battery in a Viper, or read about a failing battery in a kitchen scale when making meatloaf.
THAT seems reasonable to me.
There are other forums for those things, and thats where they belong.
This is not it.
This is for fact based information pertaining to C63s.
Not even really about E63s, and they have the same damn motor most years.
There is another sub-forum for that.
I do not think it is too much to ask that people search for info first in order to avoid redundancy (both of questions AND answers).
I do not think it is too much to ask that people stay on the topic that brought us all here in the first place.
Especially since there are off topic forums.
And Viper forums, and meatloaf forums.
Its the internet. There are lots of little corners.
Thats very cool. But that vastness can make it hard to find things.
When we go hunting for them, we originally needed to use a shotgun.
Something that spreads far and wide, like google.
Now we have found this place.
Now we can use a rifle.
Now can use a targeted search approach.
But only if people stay on target and on topic.
That topic, in this SUB-forum, is C63's.
Look, I like the people here, I like the flow and the give and take here, so I don't actually usually pop off about this stuff when it happens. But its being discussed, and I am a reasonably active member of 6 years, so I should get in this discussion re my community. It is being discussed more cos it is happening more, and it is happening more cos of a few individuals who are treating this like a personal blog and posting at a stupendous rate.
I don't intend this to be a personal attack so I wont name names, but when members post on pace for 1500+ posts a year and a good deal of it is lengthy, off topic info or queries, thats too damn much, and i personally believe it is right that people speak up.
The only method we have of 'policing' this is via members speaking up, and if some members did not do that this place WOULD devolve. We would all stand by and watch this place decline. The 'keyboard cowboys' keep stuff in check. If you don't want to do it, don't begrudge them doing it, cos it helps make it possible for us to quickly search and find info we need. Maybe not everyone gets style points for their technique, but blunt is the only thing that works, and sometimes not even then. Mods are all but useless here. Community members are all we have. They are not the problem. They are not trying to say who can post, they are merely asking them to take it to the appropriate forum.
This is a binary choice. It is either on topic or its not, and if its not there are other forums for that. Its so damn simple that I dont get how others dont get it. Its exhausting.
I repeat, contrary to some, ITS JUST PLAIN NOT A GODDAMN PERSONAL BLOG. I don't care that your sisters uncles brothers cousin is wondering if they can afford to finance a Toyota Yaris, and should they finance or lease or get blue or orange, or where should they go to eat to celebrate after they get it, and do they have good meatloaf there.
THIS IS A FORUM FOR INFO PERTAINING TO AND RELATED TO C63 AMG'S
THIS IS A FORUM FOR INFO PERTAINING TO AND RELATED TO C63 AMG'S
THIS IS A FORUM FOR INFO PERTAINING TO AND RELATED TO C63 AMG'S
It just doesn't get much simpler than that.
(*note that I said threads, and not posts, as we get off topic all the time with individual posts. That happens, thats conversation, and its unavoidable)
Damn, I want some meatloaf now lol.
604 C63: You wrote a good posting here. I respect that. It's an approach I would have responded to better than I would respond to a demeaning series of personal attacks. I understand your concerns now and I will respect them goig forward.
Do keep in mind though that none of us individually owns the forum, and very few of us agree precisely on everything. In fact, many of us come to these forums specifically to exchange thoughts and opinions, and sometimes learn things we had not thought of ourselves. Be patient with others. They almost always mean you no disrespect or harm, and we all know that a communicaiton medium that supports only typing of written words misses all the body language, gestures, and often the humorous grin, that accompany in-person conversations.
I value your perspective specifically because it shows evidence of experienced knowledge of this specific model of car and its unique attributes, and that is what I am seeking when I read your posts. You can save me a lot of time, money, and aggravations. Hopefully, I can contribute some things to the forum that will be of value, or at least entertaining or interesting, to you. I hate to take without also contributing.
05-12-2017, 10:00 PM
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