604 C63

Like I said, threads meander and posts happen. Thats conversation.
That doesnt mean we just say bag it and start writing and posting up every thought that enters our head.
And they make jokes cos I am known to not be strait laced.
And actually, neither are these two clowns. Obviously.

Jasonoff

What's assburgers feel like?

BLKROKT

Schulminator

.......assloaf!!!!!

Jasonoff

Was hoping the OP could let us all know. Maybe a new thread with a lengthy first post.

betrezra

It's funny the forum police are the ones crapping all over the OP's thread with garbage

Anyway - Jim I'm a fan. Please continue to enjoy your new ride, and as far as I'm concerned, please post away. I enjoy some new content besides: 1)blowhard about this or that tuner vs 10.0... that never really fixed the issues from vs 9.0... 2) cars and coffee.. boring, 3) knowledge show-off thread.. oh yeah.. well if you search you'll see that in a post back in 2009 I already covered this you dumb Azss ..... blah blah.

Let the new guys in and enjoy their company and enthusiasm.

I will side with the new guys with fresh ideas vs the self-proclaimed internet police.

This is not a popularity contest... there are no prizes for having the largest following.... there is no diploma for the highest mb-chat knowledge... chill
Cheers.
.....

back to OP thread.....

can you provide commentary on driving impressions between the two subject rides? the viper has been on my bucket list.

JimGnitecki

I only drove my son's Viper twice, and each time for only 1/2 hour or so, so keep that in mind when you read my comments below.

The Viper struck me, compared to my C63, as almost the exact opposite approach to car design, engineering, and construction quality.

The C63 is rather meticulously designed and engineered, and the build quality is very high - especially considering the complexity of the product (e.g. self-adjusting headlight beams, DOHC variable valve timing, electric steering wheel adjustment even!). The C63 could legitimately be the poster child for "a typically German over-engineered car". Except, it seems to work remarkably reliably despite the stupifying complexity, but remember I have only owned my 5 year old C63 for a few weeks. YMMV.

The Viper is very different:

- Focused mostly on that honking V10 EIGHT LITER engine

- Exhaust sound is not very endearing, due to the V10 firing order

- NONE of the modern electronic nannies in my son's 2002 Viper, and the bottomless pit of 8 liter torque resulted in many owners "losing it" early on in their ownership experience. Consequently many of the examples my son examined before buying had repaired unreported rear end damage from spinning out into curbs and roadside obstacles. I was VERY careful driving my son's car both times

- The Viper is extremely difficult to get into and to get out of. Very cramped (and I'm just 5'9"!), and you have to watch out for the very hot door sills which will burn you if contacted with bare skin (the exhaust on each side runs right under the sills)

- The interior of the Viper was very, very plain compared to the C63, and also way inferior in quality of materials used

- Visibility in ALL directions was pretty dicey

- The transmission action and clutch effort were both very high

- The fuel mileage compared even to a C63 was pretty bad, although my son says that on Texas interstates when driving the car home from where he bought it in Arizona, he did stay above 20 miles per U.S. gallon.

- The air conditioning is pretty inadequate, and is aggravated by the exhaust heat coming off those door sills (plus, as pointed out in the opening post of this thread, it is not terribly reliable

- While the C63 feels nimble, the Viper did not feel nimble at all

- My son warned me to stay away from sloped drievways - ANY sloped driveways! (Front overhang!)

- While the styling of the C63 is restrained and the C63 is at least a bit of a sleeper except to knowledgeable eyes, the styling of the viper is pretty aggressive and obvious

- Given the tenuous waterproofing mentioned earlier, I kept wondering what would happen if I got caught in a Texas "gully washer" rainstorm, and the thoughts were not good!

In summary, the Viper is, compared to our C63s, sort of crude, simple, and completely focused on acceleration and appearance at the expense of most everything else. Of course, this is exactly what makes it a dream car for so many guys. It's basically the "over the top" muscle car that a testosterone-filled guy would probably spec out as his "dream car": big engine, tough tranny, high effort clutch, miniscule slit visibility, insanely wide tires, 2-seater, long wide hood, and super sleazy appearance, and ask "What's not to like?"!

Did I enjoy driving it? You bet!!

Would I like to own one as my only car which needs to function as a daily driver? Uh, no. I need a more balanced set of capabilities, better design and build quality, and a significantly more nimble car.

My son has a Camaro as his DD, and the Viper is only for fun. The Viper works for him in that role.

For me, a Deuce Coupe would, brace yourself, be a more versatile and reliably usable fun car, and trust me, the interior of a Deuce coupe would be LARGER!

For me, the C63 is much more fun and satisfying to drive than the Viper was, but YMMV.

Jim G

Jasonoff

http://jalopnik.com/mustang-wait-sor...-at-1793929871

fallen

Can't agree with you more! Let's cool-off a little and try to be nice to each other

JPetros2008

I guess I understand that you're retired and have nothing better to do with your time. Only issue I have is that it's really kind of stupid to make a thread like this when you've only had the car for a few weeks. You find a way to talk about how great the condition of it is every chance you get. You're telling me that you're honestly REALLY surprised that you haven't had any issues with a car you just bought? You must have made some pretty ****ty purchases in the past.

JimGnitecki

The surprise is that a 5-year old Mercedes this complex, and a hotrod to boot, still has an apparent full 100% functionality for all systems and subsystems, while some of my brand new other purchases, like a Z06 Corvette and a Chevrolet SSR (retro convertible pickup), came right from the factory with significant flaws that popped up over the early months of ownership despite being far simpler vehicles.

Jim G

NotABaller

Lots of cool info in this thread that I hadn't known before - even though it may not strictly c63 related.

Also, not to jump on the OP bashing bandwagon but the entire premise here is a bit flawed IMO. It would be pretty difficult to accurately assess the reliability of a car when you've only owned it for 5-6 weeks. Then to compare it to a V10 American from 15 years ago is also a bit misleading.

Maybe because im a nerdy engineer, but I'd be very interested to see, with sufficient data points, the cost to maintain/repair a car versus its "exoticness". The cost part is easy to quantify, while different people may have different standards for exotic.

It'd be really cool to plot functions for
Maintainence $/horsepower
Maintainence $/quarter mile time
Maintainence $/width of smile on face

JimGnitecki

I haven't found those specific breakdowns of data anywhere yet, BUT my son sent me, about 2 or 3 weeks ago, some links to 2 or 3 websites that summarize quality and reliability of vehicles by make over a very long-term timeframe (it was 10 or 15 years of ownership). Some of the results were predictable, but some were a little surprising:

Predictable results:

No. 1 in both initial and long-term quality and reliability was Toyota
No. 2 in both initial and long-term quality and reliability was Lexus (Toyota's luxury division, so no surprise)

Not so predictable:

No. 3 in n both initial and long-term quality and reliability was Porsche

No. 4 in both initial and long-term quality and reliability was Mercedes

Both Porsche and MB are on average, far more sophisticated vehicles than most other reasonably common brands.

I'll see if I can find the website uRL in my email log. If I do, I'll post it.

Jim G