c43-amg

i see a lot of threaded about headers mbh , ARH , benzwork , ipe , fi , wistec reentech , akrapovic eurocharge ,,blah blah blah

it is same headers and performance or not ??

because same of thous headers cost 4000 and another cost 2400 and on dyno some of car made 460 same car made 475 this different because headers quality or octane boost

brad65ford

in short most likely little difference do to collector size and flange openings etc.. Mostly from what everyone points out is the quality of the welds seems to be most important since they are known to crack on lower cost units.

Ambystom01

I haven't seen any threads that do direct comparisons in a way that controls all variables. I'm sure some designs do make more power, but whether that rationalizes what can be double the cost is up to you. MBH and MHP are top contenders.

Nando_514

If you look, some of those headers have different flow designs. These different designs have an impact on the performance gains. For example, headers that contain "equal-length" tubes, will tend to perform better than an exhaust manifold that doesn't take individual tube length into its design. There's also turbulence or back-pressure to take into account. Collector size... Collector location... All these minor things will have an impact on the overall "performance" of each individual design. Whether or not it equivalates into justification for spending an extra $2000, is up to you. Personally, I don't think I can justify spending thousands of dollars for a few extra ponies. Is a 5-10HP increase TRULY worth it for an extra $2000? Will you REALLY feel that difference, or will you try to find the difference?

brad65ford

Thinking you are answering your own question...

Nando_514

Yup, and giving him a little lesson on header design factors... The more you know, right?

BLKROKT

The $2k FI headers group buy from AutoTalent - which is a copy of the MBH design - is the best thing going right now. The MBH design is known to make the most top-end power, maybe sacrificing a bit of low-end torque.

Anyone looking for headers now would be a fool not to get in on the group buy.

Nando_514

You happen to know the power gains, too?

chrisridebike8

Dynos have shown about 35-40 whp gains.

Nando_514

From headers only?! Honestly, that's really lofty lol

skratch77

With also deleting 2 sets of cats

chrisridebike8

How long have you been on these forums? A tune only C63 usually makes around 420 whp. Headers and a tune usually get 460-480 whp. it's not rocket surgery...

Nando_514

Says April 2017 on my end lol. But yeah, that's also including a tune. That tune is the biggest factor in that 40HP gain. What I'm saying is, without all the extras, slapping on a pair of headers, would not net 35-40HP, right? When you bring the tune into the equation, you're spending almost $5000 depending on what brand headers you choose... Like, that's excessive lol!

chrisridebike8

You need a tune with headers. This is all very common knowledge. And no, the tune only puts you at 420ish. The headers pick up most of that additional 40 whp.

Nando_514

You sure about that bud? And, let me just say, I hope you're not mistaking these questions as someone who's un-knowledgeable... I'm honestly just trying to gauge whether you'd be a valid source for the question I asked lol.

40 HP from slapping on headers on an N/A motor is very lofty. So please excuse my skepticism. I just think you might have it backwards... Expelling a larger amount of gasses will get you 40 HP... Yet, finely tuning an AFR isn't the bulk of that???

skratch77

I am maxed out without doing any exhaust work and did 442whp with a agressive 93 oct tune.

Have p31 filters row boxes etc and my tune said I can make 8-10whp on a 104 race map.

Full bolt on headers cars make 465-485whp so yes headers add 35-45whp on our cars...60whp if you believe the 500whp thread

Nando_514

So your exhaust is stock, but you have a tune, which gives you a "baseline." And you're comparing it to someone else's car and tune on a completely different dyno with different ambient settings? Just wanna be sure I'm understanding you post.

EDIT::

Don't get me started on that 500HP thread lolol

skratch77

I have a few Dyno sessions on my car and will have the final numbers after I run the headers.

This is a 10 year old platform and people after doing full bolt ons make 465-485whp.

If I make 482whp I made 40whp from adding headers. Our manifolds are holding the car back.

There are countless people making north of 465whp after doing headers

Nando_514

Sounds good to me. You gonna make a thread afterwards, or no?

skratch77

Yes

chrisridebike8

My baseline was 380 whp. With only a tune, I made 425 whp. After headers I make around 465 whp. This is all proven on the same dyno. My numbers are pretty normal for a non-P31 car. There are countless threads with people doing the exact same thing. With e85, headers, and a tune, people generally break the 500 whp mark or gain roughly 120+ whp.

Brunty88

My car made 440ish with just headers
The two graphs are PPP with headers and sports cats 446whp
And with ec v5 tune and headers 462whp

C63fora2w1

Not sure I follow your math.. Headers 2k, Tune assuming you don't already have one $700. If you have the V6 a retune is $100.


So I'm looking at 2100-2700 depending on if I have a tune. Add 200-300 for your local exhaust shop to put them on and I have a grand total of


2300-3k all in !!

BLKROKT

Please show me the exhaust shop that is charging $200 to install headers. Try 4-5x that.

C63fora2w1

Pretty much standard pricing from my local exhaust shop in FL. I actually had a complete 3in mandrel bent system installed, with mufflers, and headers for $350. Maybe its a lot more in NYC or NJ idk ??