Engine Ka-pow
08-23-2018, 09:20 PM
#1
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2009 C63 AMG
Engine Ka-pow
Hi,
Sorry in advance but I did do a search and haven't seen anything within recent time and in my area. I also haven't visited this forum since I purchased the car almost 10 years ago.
So I have a 2009 C63 (M156 motor?) and it is a very early VIN. Just driving around normally and the Coolant warning message came on and, almost immediately, white smoke poured out the back. Pulled over and see milky sludgy oil. Had it towed home and did some searching to find this known issue with head bolts. Naturally, panic sets in and I called my dealership. He's heard of it but never dealt with anything like this (he claims).
Anyway, my car is way past warranty (purchased new) and it's got a 85,000KM+ on it. Dealer quoted CAD$65K for the motor and $40K+ for service. MB Canada won't help (said it's way too old). I'm the the Vancouver, BC area. All the 3rd-party shop can't/won't touch an AMG rebuild save one shop. I used to use him before and he claims to have started importing AMG way back before MB bought out AMG. And recommends getting a junked car, take the motor, rebuild with new bolt and gasket. But that's still CAD$30K..,pretty sure my car was worth much less than that even when running.
What options would I have? Is this a parts car now? Where would I list this?
Thanks in advance.
Hedwig
Sorry in advance but I did do a search and haven't seen anything within recent time and in my area. I also haven't visited this forum since I purchased the car almost 10 years ago.
So I have a 2009 C63 (M156 motor?) and it is a very early VIN. Just driving around normally and the Coolant warning message came on and, almost immediately, white smoke poured out the back. Pulled over and see milky sludgy oil. Had it towed home and did some searching to find this known issue with head bolts. Naturally, panic sets in and I called my dealership. He's heard of it but never dealt with anything like this (he claims).
Anyway, my car is way past warranty (purchased new) and it's got a 85,000KM+ on it. Dealer quoted CAD$65K for the motor and $40K+ for service. MB Canada won't help (said it's way too old). I'm the the Vancouver, BC area. All the 3rd-party shop can't/won't touch an AMG rebuild save one shop. I used to use him before and he claims to have started importing AMG way back before MB bought out AMG. And recommends getting a junked car, take the motor, rebuild with new bolt and gasket. But that's still CAD$30K..,pretty sure my car was worth much less than that even when running.
What options would I have? Is this a parts car now? Where would I list this?
Thanks in advance.
Hedwig
08-23-2018, 11:16 PM
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2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Sorry to hear, that sucks. You might have gotten lucky and not damaged too much if you shut it down in time. Only way to tell is to have someone start taking it apart. Might get away with just new headbolts (~$5k) but you’ll need to take it to someone who knows what they’re doing. Plenty of Vancouver guys here who can recommend a shop. Good luck.
08-24-2018, 12:13 AM
#5
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While I know it's an expensive engine, I find it hard to believe that a complete 6.2L long-block (even with a P30/P31 package, and even in CDN $) would cost $65,000.
Why would anything else need to be replaced ? And $40,000 in labor ? GTFOH...
<---- you waving "bye" to that MB dealership.
Why would anything else need to be replaced ? And $40,000 in labor ? GTFOH...
<---- you waving "bye" to that MB dealership.
08-24-2018, 01:27 PM
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2009 C63 AMG
Sadly, that's what I said in the original post. It's one or the other or abandon and get whatever scraps I can for it.
Thx but it is dead. Dealer charged to look into it. Claims TSB meant nothing and it was my responsibility to know and seek out paying them to fix the head-bolts. I've checked a lot of recommended Vancouver area "AMG service" shops and none except one was willing to do anything with it. 
Was told by MB Canada to go there first...I called about 5-8 shops prior and got "no thanks" each time, save one.
I think I have to wave "bye" to the car. Cost of car down the drain. I've read in the MB UK forums that the motor does cost more than the car. I guess I can see where parts and labour would be pricier than a manufactured product. But the fact that I was not told I could have mitigated this with a head bolt replacement irks me plenty. MB's attitude (I called them) was "what do you expect, you have an old car and it's out of warranty". So no partial compensation, assistance, whatever. Dealer is asking so much that the service manager is recommending purchasing a new AMG.
Anyway, if anyone from the GVRD area has any recommended shops that are willing to do AMG rebuild, please let me know. I know this feeling from track toys where I am willing to eat my cost but on a daily driver of a big brand...man, it hurts.
-H
Sorry to hear, that sucks. You might have gotten lucky and not damaged too much if you shut it down in time. Only way to tell is to have someone start taking it apart. Might get away with just new headbolts (~$5k) but you’ll need to take it to someone who knows what they’re doing. Plenty of Vancouver guys here who can recommend a shop. Good luck.
While I know it's an expensive engine, I find it hard to believe that a complete 6.2L long-block (even with a P30/P31 package, and even in CDN $) would cost $65,000.
Why would anything else need to be replaced ? And $40,000 in labor ? GTFOH...
<---- you waving "bye" to that MB dealership.
Why would anything else need to be replaced ? And $40,000 in labor ? GTFOH...
<---- you waving "bye" to that MB dealership.Anyway, if anyone from the GVRD area has any recommended shops that are willing to do AMG rebuild, please let me know. I know this feeling from track toys where I am willing to eat my cost but on a daily driver of a big brand...man, it hurts.
-H
08-24-2018, 01:53 PM
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2010 C300 4MATIC........ 2011 C63 AMG.............. 2015 CLS400 4MATIC.....
Yea MBUSA and out of warranty for a while = no help, even when it is their design flaws. I learned that the hard way; not as hard as your situation, however
It's too bad I like their cars lol. Lets hope when I plan to build an s63 coupe it wont poop haha.
It's too bad I like their cars lol. Lets hope when I plan to build an s63 coupe it wont poop haha.
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08-24-2018, 02:01 PM
#8
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I have sold my old car with a blown engine as is for $6k to a MB mechanic who can put his own time into it to fix. Maybe I could have sold for closer to 8k if I really tried.
It was a 2010 with 120k miles on it just for reference.
here is the math I to do.
It turned out the engine was blown beyond repair and it had to be replaced. As soon as the fix requires to pull the lower end apart, you are better of replacing it with a used engine. At for the car I had with that mileage at that age.
7k for an engine and about 2k to 3k in labor considering nothing else is going to get damaged during the swap.
So about 10k to put a used engine in and hoping everything is going well and hoping the used engine had nothing wrong with it.
A C63 with a replaced used engine doesn't sell that well. Maybe I could have sold it for $16k to $18k.
So I came to the conclusion selling it for 6k with a blown engine was the better option and not worrying about other issues.
It was a 2010 with 120k miles on it just for reference.
here is the math I to do.
It turned out the engine was blown beyond repair and it had to be replaced. As soon as the fix requires to pull the lower end apart, you are better of replacing it with a used engine. At for the car I had with that mileage at that age.
7k for an engine and about 2k to 3k in labor considering nothing else is going to get damaged during the swap.
So about 10k to put a used engine in and hoping everything is going well and hoping the used engine had nothing wrong with it.
A C63 with a replaced used engine doesn't sell that well. Maybe I could have sold it for $16k to $18k.
So I came to the conclusion selling it for 6k with a blown engine was the better option and not worrying about other issues.
08-24-2018, 02:19 PM
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Thx but it is dead. Dealer charged to look into it. Claims TSB meant nothing and it was my responsibility to know and seek out paying them to fix the head-bolts. I've checked a lot of recommended Vancouver area "AMG service" shops and none except one was willing to do anything with [
Did they ever tell you exactly why the car is “dead”?
Get a second opinion. Anything can be fixed unless you have a hole in your block, which is extremely unlikely.
08-24-2018, 07:11 PM
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That is brutal.... and yes the engine should be fine depending how quickly you shut it down... just need to drop the fluid change the gaskets and head bolts and do a few engine oil flushes. However an engine rebuild should cost a heck of a lot less than the $65 grand you were quoted for a new motor and you could build it with some ugraded parts that if you were going to do some upgrades down the road would benefit from. Good luck...
08-24-2018, 07:55 PM
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Just did a search on car-part.com, which is a database of used recycled car parts for sale directly from junkyards, albeit around the US. I just did a quick search for 2012 C63's and found 2 engines with about 60k on them, one for 11k and one for 12k, USD. Not cheap, but far cheaper than a new engine, and if you get a 2012+ it will have the updated head bolts.
I've used this to find car parts and transmissions in the past. They usually include a short warranty that will more or less protect against it being DOA. I totally understand that you may not want to deal with this and could just go ahead and cut your losses, but I figured I'd show you another option.
I've used this to find car parts and transmissions in the past. They usually include a short warranty that will more or less protect against it being DOA. I totally understand that you may not want to deal with this and could just go ahead and cut your losses, but I figured I'd show you another option.
08-24-2018, 08:26 PM
#12
So is this the same dealer that also told you the repair is going to be $100k and is trying to get you to buy a new AMG? Sounds trustworthy.
Did they ever tell you exactly why the car is “dead”?
Get a second opinion. Anything can be fixed unless you have a hole in your block, which is extremely unlikely.
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BLKROKT (08-24-2018)
08-25-2018, 01:00 AM
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2009 C63 AMG
I have sold my old car with a blown engine as is for $6k to a MB mechanic who can put his own time into it to fix. Maybe I could have sold for closer to 8k if I really tried.
It was a 2010 with 120k miles on it just for reference.
here is the math I to do.
It turned out the engine was blown beyond repair and it had to be replaced. As soon as the fix requires to pull the lower end apart, you are better of replacing it with a used engine. At for the car I had with that mileage at that age.
7k for an engine and about 2k to 3k in labor considering nothing else is going to get damaged during the swap.
So about 10k to put a used engine in and hoping everything is going well and hoping the used engine had nothing wrong with it.
A C63 with a replaced used engine doesn't sell that well. Maybe I could have sold it for $16k to $18k.
So I came to the conclusion selling it for 6k with a blown engine was the better option and not worrying about other issues.
It was a 2010 with 120k miles on it just for reference.
here is the math I to do.
It turned out the engine was blown beyond repair and it had to be replaced. As soon as the fix requires to pull the lower end apart, you are better of replacing it with a used engine. At for the car I had with that mileage at that age.
7k for an engine and about 2k to 3k in labor considering nothing else is going to get damaged during the swap.
So about 10k to put a used engine in and hoping everything is going well and hoping the used engine had nothing wrong with it.
A C63 with a replaced used engine doesn't sell that well. Maybe I could have sold it for $16k to $18k.
So I came to the conclusion selling it for 6k with a blown engine was the better option and not worrying about other issues.
So is this the same dealer that also told you the repair is going to be $100k and is trying to get you to buy a new AMG? Sounds trustworthy.
Did they ever tell you exactly why the car is “dead”?
Get a second opinion. Anything can be fixed unless you have a hole in your block, which is extremely unlikely.
Did they ever tell you exactly why the car is “dead”?
Get a second opinion. Anything can be fixed unless you have a hole in your block, which is extremely unlikely.
I don't trust them but the sales people are on my side and trying to do things. It's the service manager who keeps blaming me. He's now down to CAD$65K for motor and CAD$40K+ for re+re....makes me want to go punch him. But that's juvenile....oh, the temptation. BTW, I paid them to open it up and they saw the sheared bolt heads and acknowledged the failed faulty part. He said TSB means nothing (warranty-wise). It just "helps" them find the problem quicker. I smell manure but what can I do? I'm not spending to go to court. MB Canada won't help. So it's just the sales side trying to help. Pretty sure, I just have scrap metal sitting there.
That is brutal.... and yes the engine should be fine depending how quickly you shut it down... just need to drop the fluid change the gaskets and head bolts and do a few engine oil flushes. However an engine rebuild should cost a heck of a lot less than the $65 grand you were quoted for a new motor and you could build it with some ugraded parts that if you were going to do some upgrades down the road would benefit from. Good luck...
Just did a search on car-part.com, which is a database of used recycled car parts for sale directly from junkyards, albeit around the US. I just did a quick search for 2012 C63's and found 2 engines with about 60k on them, one for 11k and one for 12k, USD. Not cheap, but far cheaper than a new engine, and if you get a 2012+ it will have the updated head bolts.
I've used this to find car parts and transmissions in the past. They usually include a short warranty that will more or less protect against it being DOA. I totally understand that you may not want to deal with this and could just go ahead and cut your losses, but I figured I'd show you another option.
I've used this to find car parts and transmissions in the past. They usually include a short warranty that will more or less protect against it being DOA. I totally understand that you may not want to deal with this and could just go ahead and cut your losses, but I figured I'd show you another option.
Thanks for the discussion, guys. Here's wishing the rest of you better luck and prevention of such a crappy ordeal.
Cheerios,
-H
08-25-2018, 03:53 AM
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I don't trust them but the sales people are on my side and trying to do things. It's the service manager who keeps blaming me. He's now down to CAD$65K for motor and CAD$40K+ for re+re....makes me want to go punch him. But that's juvenile....oh, the temptation. BTW, I paid them to open it up and they saw the sheared bolt heads and acknowledged the failed faulty part. He said TSB means nothing (warranty-wise). It just "helps" them find the problem quicker. I smell manure but what can I do? I'm not spending to go to court. MB Canada won't help. So it's just the sales side trying to help. Pretty sure, I just have scrap metal sitting there.
Ok, listen. I know you’re new here, so let me break this down for you.
1. Broken head bolts in and of itself does NOT mean the engine is “dead”. Unless the bolt heads broke off and bounced around in your valvetrain, it’s likely to be ok. Head bolts themselves only hold the heads to the block. They are not mechanical per se. Losing one or three or five doesn’t make the engine scrap metal.
2. That’s not what I meant by pulling the engine apart. To identify broken headbolts, all you have to do is remove the valve covers which is a 15min job. They didn’t tear down anything. If the engine won’t turn over or the valvetrain is damaged, more things will need to be removed to get the full picture. Heads for starters.
As mentioned, one shop who will do this said the best thing is to find a working motor (same vintage) from a scrapyard. But replace the gasket + head bolts and pop it in. It will still be north of $20K. Just not worth it for a 10-year old car. I really don't love it that much, it just sucks I'm in this predicament.
Seriously, take it to someone who knows what they’re doing. Because this dealer is either not telling you the full story so you buy a new car, or they’re just completely ignorant of the situation. Give them the benefit of the doubt and say it’s the latter, still why would MB want to spend the time fixing your complicated motor when they can just tell you it’s time to buy a new car instead? They’re in the business of selling cars, not fixing them. To people like you who take what they say at face value - no offense.
Or sell it on the cheap for scrap metal to someone on this forum or bringatrailer.com who will fix the engine for probably $2k in parts and appreciate it for many more years.
Last edited by BLKROKT; 08-25-2018 at 04:26 AM.
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BLKROKT (08-25-2018)
08-25-2018, 06:59 PM
#16
Sorry about your situation but you should listen to the advice politely offered in this thread. Only fools/suckers take their cars to the dealership for non warranty work.
08-25-2018, 09:10 PM
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2009 C63 AMG
Perhaps, I didn't emphasize it or my wordy OP was skipped. Here's the TL;DR version: Car problem but no shop locally except 1 was willing to work on an AMG motor. Price for repair from that shop and MB service center is greater than the cost of the trade-in.
For further info, it was hydro-locked. Not sure as to exact extent of damage. Didn't want to pay to investigate on a 10 year old car. The economics is thus: I am willing to consider repair cost up to 90% of trade-in/resale value. Any more than that would require sentimental value towards this car (I really didn't love it that much). As someone mentioned earlier, a repair motor will net even less on trade-in/resale (I'm sure if any one of you guys were looking into a 2nd hand C63, a swapped/repaired motor would raise red flags).
So I was soliciting advise/recommendation from local people for shops the would deal with AMG. While I am appreciative of the advise provided and they all seem to be well-intention, they won't help as I cannot find a shop that will do this. I am not shipping the car/block somewhere for fixing. I really am not planning on having a shop re & re a motor acquired elsewhere.
So again, thanks for the advice but I'm limited as to what I can pursue. Seems I've found a good solution for now so I no longer have to worry about this anymore.
Cheers,
-H
For further info, it was hydro-locked. Not sure as to exact extent of damage. Didn't want to pay to investigate on a 10 year old car. The economics is thus: I am willing to consider repair cost up to 90% of trade-in/resale value. Any more than that would require sentimental value towards this car (I really didn't love it that much). As someone mentioned earlier, a repair motor will net even less on trade-in/resale (I'm sure if any one of you guys were looking into a 2nd hand C63, a swapped/repaired motor would raise red flags).
So I was soliciting advise/recommendation from local people for shops the would deal with AMG. While I am appreciative of the advise provided and they all seem to be well-intention, they won't help as I cannot find a shop that will do this. I am not shipping the car/block somewhere for fixing. I really am not planning on having a shop re & re a motor acquired elsewhere.
So again, thanks for the advice but I'm limited as to what I can pursue. Seems I've found a good solution for now so I no longer have to worry about this anymore.
Cheers,
-H
08-25-2018, 09:42 PM
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Ok. Bye.
08-25-2018, 11:45 PM
#20
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Cya.
08-26-2018, 12:46 AM
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Last edited by BLKROKT; 08-26-2018 at 01:03 AM.
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chrisridebike8 (08-26-2018)
08-26-2018, 01:05 AM
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At first I was like, dang, feel bad for this guy.
Now I'm elated your car blew up.
On that note, I'll give you $1k USD for the car.
Now I'm elated your car blew up.
On that note, I'll give you $1k USD for the car.
