Go Back  MBWorld.org Forums > Mercedes-Benz AMG Vehicles > C63 AMG (W204)
High Long Term Fuel Trims with ROW Airboxes >

High Long Term Fuel Trims with ROW Airboxes

Notices
C63 AMG (W204)
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

High Long Term Fuel Trims with ROW Airboxes

 
Old 01-22-2018, 04:58 PM
  #151  
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 148
Received 12 Likes on 9 Posts
C63 AMG PPP Saloon
Originally Posted by skratch77 View Post
Just put rows back in and pro drys and drove around for a bit.

fully warmed up I'm seeing 15-18 on both banks but either one can be 5 points off depending on how the car wants to be.

under throttle I'm seeing 13-15 and stays pretty solid.the thing I noticed is with stock boxes I was seeing negative numbers and around 3-5 on both banks.

just as I thought the car was running perfectly and pulling really hard I got a check engine light.

bank 1 stock rich code and bank 1 post cat code too rich.

****ing hate having headers as it's just a huge pain in the *** and needs to be custom tuned to dial out these o2 codes.

I can't have gone through sensors this fast can I ? 3k miles and no issues and now codes again.
if you mean o2 sensors then maybe
I'm on my second set in 1500 miles and about 10 months
my car has ipe headers and sports cats with row boxes as standard, dry filters and a carbon intake
car runs well and pulls hard just wild fuel trims
Brunty88 is offline  
Old 01-23-2018, 09:47 PM
  #152  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 25
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
B5S4, 2013 P31 C63
Just wanted to chime in with some data from my logging earlier this evening. ROW airboxes, EC V7 tune, at idle:

LTFT Bank 1 - 21%
LTFT Bank 2 - 15%

Readings would vary under throttle, but generally not lower than at idle.

Same hesitation under low RPMs as OP and others, too. More acute with cold weather. AFR 14.65.

From a random website:

Running too lean – High positive fuel corrections can be traced to MAF and O2 sensor faults, vacuum leaks from intake gaskets/hoses, unmetered air (intake snorkel leak), clogged or dirty fuel injectors, fuel delivery issues, and exhaust restrictions such as a clogged catalytic converter.
"Unmetered air" would seem at first blush to match up with the air gaps identified by posters above, but it sounds like the DIY fixes on ROWs hasn't cured the issue.
ghh923 is offline  
The following users liked this post:
cls55 (01-31-2018)
Old 05-15-2018, 11:51 AM
  #153  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Long Island
Posts: 487
Received 45 Likes on 33 Posts
'14 507
I want to bring this thread back to get some info from the members that look at or monitor the long term trims. Currently working with eurocharged to dial in a e85 tune. After swapping injectors, they have sent me 2 different tunes to accommodate the larger injectors to bring those long term trims as close to zero as possible before making a tune solely for e85. For the longest time (ever since I began looking at trims like last year) there has always been a big difference between banks as far as long trims are concerned.

Currently the long trims look like this on e85 and ROW boxes
Idle
+21 and +3
Cruise
+6 and -2

It was suggested to try and figure out the cause for the large difference between banks before wasting time creating a new e85 tune. Just in case the issue gets fixed later on and the tune needs to be adjusted again. I think its some kind of leak but cant isolate it (clamps are tight, boxes are snug, screws are tight). I even put some lube around the rubber edges of the filter and the Y pipe with no changes. I notice the vacuum at idle is low (-10) so maybe the IM gasket? Any thoughts?
bentz69 is offline  
Old 05-15-2018, 12:43 PM
  #154  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
skratch77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,680
Received 97 Likes on 70 Posts
2005 E55
Use your old boxes without the charcoal filter.your trims will be alot better.

I took my row boxes out a while ago.i have my tuning almost spot on and get .08 on one bank and -4.9 on the other and they stay pretty solid.

before they would bounce around 10-20% and be all over the place with the row boxes.

it's the cone on the stock boxes that directs the air better over the meter i think.

i have done it like 5 times and every time i put the row boxes on my trims go whack.
skratch77 is offline  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:30 PM
  #155  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Long Island
Posts: 487
Received 45 Likes on 33 Posts
'14 507
Originally Posted by skratch77 View Post
Use your old boxes without the charcoal filter.your trims will be alot better.

I took my row boxes out a while ago.i have my tuning almost spot on and get .08 on one bank and -4.9 on the other and they stay pretty solid.

before they would bounce around 10-20% and be all over the place with the row boxes.

it's the cone on the stock boxes that directs the air better over the meter i think.

i have done it like 5 times and every time i put the row boxes on my trims go whack.
Ive gone back n forth between stock boxes (no charcoal) and row many times and yes, I have always noticed the long trims with row boxes goes much higher. However, eurocharged first adjusted the tune for larger injectors with stock boxes and the trims were much better. Then they re-adjusted the tune when I swapped the row's back and thats where Im at now with the numbers above.

Its just this large difference between banks that we are trying to diagnose before adjusting the tune anymore. If whatever is causing that one bank to read much higher is corrected, then those trims will be fine and the tune can be finally adjusted for e85
bentz69 is offline  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:43 PM
  #156  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
skratch77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,680
Received 97 Likes on 70 Posts
2005 E55
Originally Posted by bentz69 View Post
Ive gone back n forth between stock boxes (no charcoal) and row many times and yes, I have always noticed the long trims with row boxes goes much higher. However, eurocharged first adjusted the tune for larger injectors with stock boxes and the trims were much better. Then they re-adjusted the tune when I swapped the row's back and thats where Im at now with the numbers above.

Its just this large difference between banks that we are trying to diagnose before adjusting the tune anymore. If whatever is causing that one bank to read much higher is corrected, then those trims will be fine and the tune can be finally adjusted for e85
I've tried everything also and one side of my car is always 3-5% different from the other.

changed all o2s,new plugs,new coils,new injectors,took out cats thinking one was more clogged etc.

it could be the fuel rail as one side might have higher pressure from the other side as the drivers side gets the fuel line first and close and our cars dont use a looped fuel rail.
skratch77 is offline  
Old 05-15-2018, 10:30 PM
  #157  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Jasonoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Kitchener, ON
Posts: 3,583
Received 632 Likes on 417 Posts
2010 C63 AMG
Pretty sure the fuel trim values sent to OBDII is bogus data so I wouldn't rely on it.

Vladds posted proof of that a while back.
Jasonoff is offline  
Old 05-15-2018, 11:39 PM
  #158  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
roadtalontsi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: dfw
Posts: 1,482
Received 24 Likes on 20 Posts
10' C63, 02' Esprit, 93' Supra
Im pretty late to the game on this one.... but I'll solve the mystery for you. Im guessing none of you realize there is a setting for row air boxes in the ecu. This changes the calibration tables for the mass air sensors. Im assuming most ya'll havent modified this or arent running a good tune that corrects this. You're welcome.
roadtalontsi is offline  
The following users liked this post:
mr747 (05-16-2018)
Old 05-16-2018, 07:37 AM
  #159  
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
 
roadkillrob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,194
Received 157 Likes on 134 Posts
2014 C63 507 with LSD Polar White
Originally Posted by roadtalontsi View Post
Im pretty late to the game on this one.... but I'll solve the mystery for you. Im guessing none of you realize there is a setting for row air boxes in the ecu. This changes the calibration tables for the mass air sensors. Im assuming most ya'll havent modified this or arent running a good tune that corrects this. You're welcome.
Eurocharged specifically told me when I contacted them that there is no difference with a ROW car vs a US car for MAF, so would love to hear more on this subject if there really is a difference?
roadkillrob is offline  
Old 05-16-2018, 01:19 PM
  #160  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Long Island
Posts: 487
Received 45 Likes on 33 Posts
'14 507
Originally Posted by Jasonoff View Post
Pretty sure the fuel trim values sent to OBDII is bogus data so I wouldn't rely on it.

Vladds posted proof of that a while back.
I want to believe that but these tuners are using these numbers from the obd scanner as guides for a retune. If it was completely inaccurate these tunes would be a mess

Originally Posted by roadkillrob View Post
Eurocharged specifically told me when I contacted them that there is no difference with a ROW car vs a US car for MAF, so would love to hear more on this subject if there really is a difference?
Yea I've been told the same.
bentz69 is offline  
Old 05-21-2018, 12:50 PM
  #161  
Super Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 825
Received 74 Likes on 53 Posts
2010 C63
Originally Posted by roadtalontsi
Im pretty late to the game on this one.... but I'll solve the mystery for you. Im guessing none of you realize there is a setting for row air boxes in the ecu. This changes the calibration tables for the mass air sensors. Im assuming most ya'll havent modified this or arent running a good tune that corrects this. You're welcome.
I'm looking at Xentry with this in mind.
Can you give me more details as if where this setting is?
I thought it is under ME97 motor electronics and display of coding data.
I've looked twice, I don't see it.
Is it under central gateway ?
Vladds is offline  
Old 05-21-2018, 06:39 PM
  #162  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
BLKROKT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,964
Received 1,281 Likes on 859 Posts
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2015 GLK350
For whatever it’s worth, my LTFT at idle with the Renntech intake and 82mm TBs is +38.9
BLKROKT is online now  
Old 05-21-2018, 07:44 PM
  #163  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Jasonoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Kitchener, ON
Posts: 3,583
Received 632 Likes on 417 Posts
2010 C63 AMG
Originally Posted by BLKROKT View Post
For whatever it’s worth, my LTFT at idle with the Renntech intake and 82mm TBs is +38.9
It's fake news (lololol) to make OBDII happy. You need Xentry or equiv to see the proper data.
Jasonoff is offline  
Old 05-22-2018, 09:15 PM
  #164  
Senior Member
 
Silversun262's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: So Cal
Posts: 288
Received 18 Likes on 18 Posts
2015 S550 (SOLD), 2013 C63, 2005 R6 Track Bike
Installed the Carbonio boxes and measured with dashcomand 29-30 both sides. Not sure how accurate DC is but the car actually runs better with CF box vs ROW. ROW had all kinds of weird hesitations in C on easy acceleration. Now it is smooth, enjoyable and S+ seems better too. Going for a custom tune next week with HD Tuning. Will have more accurate data then and report back.


Originally Posted by BLKROKT View Post
For whatever itís worth, my LTFT at idle with the Renntech intake and 82mm TBs is +38.9
Silversun262 is offline  
The following users liked this post:
BLKROKT (05-22-2018)
Old 10-27-2018, 08:16 PM
  #165  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
503C43 ////AMG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mississippi for now
Posts: 4,339
Received 23 Likes on 19 Posts
1999 C43, 2008 P30 E63, 2012 G37, 2017 200C
Originally Posted by roadtalontsi View Post
Im pretty late to the game on this one.... but I'll solve the mystery for you. Im guessing none of you realize there is a setting for row air boxes in the ecu. This changes the calibration tables for the mass air sensors. Im assuming most ya'll havent modified this or arent running a good tune that corrects this. You're welcome.
Has anyone been able to confirm this setting?
503C43 ////AMG is offline  
 

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:
You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 0 votes,  average.

Quick Reply: High Long Term Fuel Trims with ROW Airboxes


Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: