Any simple, affordable mods out there
01-30-2018, 12:28 PM
#26
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2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
AMGonFire you're about to get lit up
01-30-2018, 12:32 PM
#27
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Last edited by AMGonFire; 01-30-2018 at 12:36 PM.
01-30-2018, 01:24 PM
#29
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I am not talking about the cost of the tune itself - I am talking about the cost of the whole system over its projected lifespan. If the engines from the factory were designed to last 10 years with the OEM tune and you take a 100 engines that were not tuned and another 100 that were, the repair costs of the tuned ones over those 10 years would be significantly higher than the ones that weren't.
It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile...
01-30-2018, 02:00 PM
#30
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W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
The E63 makes a little more power because it has a different air intake or exhaust (don't remember which) and is tuned accordingly from the factory. The P31 and 507 make more power than the non-P31 C63 because they have forged internals and 7 lb less reciprocating mass in the engine. The BS makes a little more power than the P31 / 507 because the bottom end of the motor is different and cylinders on opposing sides of the V help pull down / push up the piston in the opposite cylinder.
01-30-2018, 02:13 PM
#31
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Last edited by AMGonFire; 01-30-2018 at 02:21 PM.
01-30-2018, 02:50 PM
#32
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wow surprised expected a longer bs reply. According to you any modification not from factory is a detrimental effect to reliability. I realize he has alot done to the car, but none involves increasing the strength of the motor. You are just contradicting yourself that's my point.
You really don't appear to be able to understand the gist of my argument, and I am not going to continue fighting with you for the same reason that I don't physically defend myself and retaliate against toddlers that may step on my foot in the supermarket or kick stray kittens that may walk up to me. You seem completely unable to process and grasp the meaning of more than one sentence at a time, and it is indeed unfair and outright cruel for me to continue on this path. I would like to point out to you that you started with the insults in post #14, not me, and that at that time I didn't realize that you have the mental capacity of a 9-year-old. I sincerely apologize to you and ask that you forgive me for engaging you in the first place.
01-30-2018, 03:02 PM
#33
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No, no and no, I am not.
You really don't appear to be able to understand the gist of my argument, and I am not going to continue fighting with you for the same reason that I don't physically defend myself and retaliate against toddlers that may step on my foot in the supermarket or kick stray kittens that may walk up to me. You seem completely unable to process and grasp the meaning of more than one sentence at a time, and it is indeed unfair and outright cruel for me to continue on this path. I would like to point out to you that you started with the insults in post #14, not me, and that at that time I didn't realize that you have the mental capacity of a 9-year-old. I sincerely apologize to you and ask that you forgive me for engaging you in the first place.
You really don't appear to be able to understand the gist of my argument, and I am not going to continue fighting with you for the same reason that I don't physically defend myself and retaliate against toddlers that may step on my foot in the supermarket or kick stray kittens that may walk up to me. You seem completely unable to process and grasp the meaning of more than one sentence at a time, and it is indeed unfair and outright cruel for me to continue on this path. I would like to point out to you that you started with the insults in post #14, not me, and that at that time I didn't realize that you have the mental capacity of a 9-year-old. I sincerely apologize to you and ask that you forgive me for engaging you in the first place.
01-30-2018, 03:05 PM
#34
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Last edited by BLKROKT; 01-30-2018 at 03:08 PM.
01-30-2018, 03:10 PM
#36
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01-30-2018, 03:12 PM
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01-30-2018, 03:26 PM
#38
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It depends on the context. In a contest or race, it doesn't. In a nuclear war, it makes a huge difference.
01-30-2018, 03:41 PM
#39
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01-30-2018, 04:12 PM
#41
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Would you please point out a single instance? I can't find any. All I see are people that don't understand the difference between modding an engine and then tuning it for the modifications and pre-canned tunes that magically extract power out of nowhere without compromises in wear and tear and then put up a fight when you tell them that the tune they put on their engine is not without consequences. There is no contradiction whatsoever - unless you're talking about AMGonFire or your own post that your EC tune made it shift smoother. Keep going with that hammer.
01-30-2018, 04:43 PM
#42
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I really don’t get the controversy here. It’s a fact that all other things being equal, a tuned engine will be less reliable than a stock one. You’re running it past the point that it was designed to be run at, stressing systems like lubrication and cooling over what they were designed to handle, increasing/accelerating wear, and they’re generally run higher in almost every measurable category (temp, fuel consumption, rpm, etc). As soon as you tune a car, you instantly put all of the car systems under strain over and above what they were designed to handle. Does AMG overengineer their engines, and can they handle a little more than designed? Probably. But that doesn’t change anything.
Are you guys serious? Like, it’s all true. That’s part of the deal we sign up for when modifying a car.
Are you guys serious? Like, it’s all true. That’s part of the deal we sign up for when modifying a car.
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01-30-2018, 04:48 PM
#43
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Would you please point out a single instance? I can't find any. All I see are people that don't understand the difference between modding an engine and then tuning it for the modifications and pre-canned tunes that magically extract power out of nowhere without compromises in wear and tear and then put up a fight when you tell them that the tune they put on their engine is not without consequences. There is no contradiction whatsoever - unless you're talking about AMGonFire or your own post that your EC tune made it shift smoother. Keep going with that hammer.
01-30-2018, 07:24 PM
#44
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I really don’t get the controversy here. It’s a fact that all other things being equal, a tuned engine will be less reliable than a stock one. You’re running it past the point that it was designed to be run at, stressing systems like lubrication and cooling over what they were designed to handle, increasing/accelerating wear, and they’re generally run higher in almost every measurable category (temp, fuel consumption, rpm, etc). As soon as you tune a car, you instantly put all of the car systems under strain over and above what they were designed to handle. Does AMG overengineer their engines, and can they handle a little more than designed? Probably. But that doesn’t change anything.
Are you guys serious? Like, it’s all true. That’s part of the deal we sign up for when modifying a car.
Are you guys serious? Like, it’s all true. That’s part of the deal we sign up for when modifying a car.
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BLKROKT (01-30-2018)
01-30-2018, 08:22 PM
#45
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I really don’t get the controversy here. It’s a fact that all other things being equal, a tuned engine will be less reliable than a stock one. You’re running it past the point that it was designed to be run at, stressing systems like lubrication and cooling over what they were designed to handle, increasing/accelerating wear, and they’re generally run higher in almost every measurable category (temp, fuel consumption, rpm, etc). As soon as you tune a car, you instantly put all of the car systems under strain over and above what they were designed to handle. Does AMG overengineer their engines, and can they handle a little more than designed? Probably. But that doesn’t change anything.
Are you guys serious? Like, it’s all true. That’s part of the deal we sign up for when modifying a car.
Are you guys serious? Like, it’s all true. That’s part of the deal we sign up for when modifying a car.
Last edited by AMGonFire; 01-30-2018 at 08:25 PM.
01-30-2018, 08:52 PM
#46
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And that's a "fact" not an "opinion".
01-31-2018, 01:17 AM
#48
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Isn’t the new C63 and C63S the exact same motor but with a different tune? Why is Mercedes doing that again? The non S engines are hand picked as weaker and needing a less aggressive tune?
You don’t need forged pistons to run a more aggressive tune on a factory na car it’s been done countless times
Mercedes kept the engine down to 451hp for marketing and to keep an advantage on owning the more expensive models, or are you saying the p31 with the forged internals and a claimed 481hp wouldn’t handle the 507hp tune from the non forged e,ml,s,etc variants?
You don’t need forged pistons to run a more aggressive tune on a factory na car it’s been done countless times
Mercedes kept the engine down to 451hp for marketing and to keep an advantage on owning the more expensive models, or are you saying the p31 with the forged internals and a claimed 481hp wouldn’t handle the 507hp tune from the non forged e,ml,s,etc variants?
01-31-2018, 01:51 PM
#49
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rexiferp (01-31-2018)
01-31-2018, 09:15 PM
#50
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I think it is not relevant that the intake or exhaust is different on the ML or E (not to mention that it needs to be validated with part numbers)
To make a certain amount of HP, in the same block with the same internals, the same internal forces are developed.
So the stress on the intervals of an ML that makes 520 is the same as the stress of the internals of a C63 that runs a high quality tune for the same HP (say the factory ML tune with shorty headers by example) and this is factual. To generate X ftlb in the same block, you have to incur the same amount of shearing at the piston pin and so on.
As far as the factory rating the engine differently for different use, that's an opinion.
First of all the different use is not beneficial for the ML. I spoke to a ML 63 guy, he uses the AWD feature to launch it.
That's hard on the whole drivetrain.
What I am saying is that the factory cannot speculate that "hey this is an ML, it's going to have an easy life". Because It May Not Be the case.
The factory cannot afford to make assumptions and have opinions.
They test the engines for reliability in the worst simulated conditions.
You can bet that if the engine part number is the same between the C and the ML, the test is going to be at ML HP level.
Also, designing an engine that is only reliable at 75-80% throttle opening and cannot be reliable if allowed to open to 100% is not something Mercedes does, and I admit this is an opinion.
To make a certain amount of HP, in the same block with the same internals, the same internal forces are developed.
So the stress on the intervals of an ML that makes 520 is the same as the stress of the internals of a C63 that runs a high quality tune for the same HP (say the factory ML tune with shorty headers by example) and this is factual. To generate X ftlb in the same block, you have to incur the same amount of shearing at the piston pin and so on.
As far as the factory rating the engine differently for different use, that's an opinion.
First of all the different use is not beneficial for the ML. I spoke to a ML 63 guy, he uses the AWD feature to launch it.
That's hard on the whole drivetrain.
What I am saying is that the factory cannot speculate that "hey this is an ML, it's going to have an easy life". Because It May Not Be the case.
The factory cannot afford to make assumptions and have opinions.
They test the engines for reliability in the worst simulated conditions.
You can bet that if the engine part number is the same between the C and the ML, the test is going to be at ML HP level.
Also, designing an engine that is only reliable at 75-80% throttle opening and cannot be reliable if allowed to open to 100% is not something Mercedes does, and I admit this is an opinion.
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