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I have been searching, and searching, and searching... There are not a lot of threads with information regarding a larger Front Oil cooler for the C63. The 44O is NLA, however the coolers are still available for purchase individually.
It seems people have done it, but there is little information, on fitting the Black Series front oil cooler into the non-BS models. I'm going to buy just the front cooler and work on fitting that to my 2012 Coupe. I imagine the lines would bolt right up from the OEM cooler, but that remains to be seen. I'll attempt to keep the mounting position the same, however I will most likely need to fabricate a shroud to fit the larger cooler.
Anybody have experience or input for this? I think a LARGE aftermarket front cooler and shroud would sell like hotcakes, but maybe that's for another member to conquer.
Don't kid yourself. According to BLKROKT who is the end all source of all things related to the C63 and the Black Series variant (which he's never owned), the only difference between the 2 is a body kit, and red seatbelts.
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Originally Posted by JonM
I have been searching, and searching, and searching... There are not a lot of threads with information regarding a larger Front Oil cooler for the C63. The 44O is NLA, however the coolers are still available for purchase individually.
It seems people have done it, but there is little information, on fitting the Black Series front oil cooler into the non-BS models. I'm going to buy just the front cooler and work on fitting that to my 2012 Coupe. I imagine the lines would bolt right up from the OEM cooler, but that remains to be seen. I'll attempt to keep the mounting position the same, however I will most likely need to fabricate a shroud to fit the larger cooler.
Anybody have experience or input for this? I think a LARGE aftermarket front cooler and shroud would sell like hotcakes, but maybe that's for another member to conquer.
I think you’re on the right track here going with OE coolers. FMU tried making a better main oil cooler back in ‘12, and while it showed on paper that it should have been a big improvement, it actually did much worse in real life testing. Your only real challenge will be how to secure it lying flat like the BS cooler without the “kit” which includes brackets and the underbody scoops to get air up into it. I’m sure you can fab up brackets, and of course don’t forget to also purchase the oil lines from the BS because they’ll be longer. Let me know when you get underway and I’ll take some detailed pics for you to go off of.
Originally Posted by Ron Olson
Don't kid yourself. According to BLKROKT who is the end all source of all things related to the C63 and the Black Series variant (which he's never owned), the only difference between the 2 is a body kit, and red seatbelts.
Insecure much? How’s your “exclusive” sub-forum of one going? I didn’t want a BS because I wanted to beat the snot out of my car. Have fun polishing and looking lovingly at yours.
I think you’re on the right track here going with OE coolers. FMU tried making a better main oil cooler back in ‘12, and while it showed on paper that it should have been a big improvement, it actually did much worse in real life testing. Your only real challenge will be how to secure it lying flat like the BS cooler without the “kit” which includes brackets and the underbody scoops to get air up into it. I’m sure you can fab up brackets, and of course don’t forget to also purchase the oil lines from the BS because they’ll be longer. Let me know when you get underway and I’ll take some detailed pics for you to go off of.
Notice in this picture the BS cooler is in the same orientation as the standard C63? That will be my goal with fitting the cooler. The lines shouldn't need to change, unless they don't bolt into the cooler itself, but the mounting points may be different and will require some fabrication.
I think you’re on the right track here going with OE coolers. FMU tried making a better main oil cooler back in ‘12, and while it showed on paper that it should have been a big improvement, it actually did much worse in real life testing. Your only real challenge will be how to secure it lying flat like the BS cooler without the “kit” which includes brackets and the underbody scoops to get air up into it. I’m sure you can fab up brackets, and of course don’t forget to also purchase the oil lines from the BS because they’ll be longer. Let me know when you get underway and I’ll take some detailed pics for you to go off of.
Insecure much? How’s your “exclusive” sub-forum of one going? I didn’t want a BS because I wanted to beat the snot out of my car. Have fun polishing and looking lovingly at yours.
I'd beat the snot out of your Franken C63 too if I were you. Keep dumping money at it though, I'm sure your girlfriend might believe your bull****.
I'd beat the snot out of your Franken C63 too if I were you. Keep dumping money at it though, I'm sure your girlfriend might believe your bull****.
I'd bet money on a lot of things:
-His C63 being faster on a road course than your black series.
-Him being more knowledgeable on the C63 than you (or just about anyone...DADS C63 might be one that knows more).
-I bet his wife is hotter than yours too...
If you want a no bull***** answer on what works and what doesn't work on a C63, BLKROKT is probably your best bet for info. Just saying....
I forgot who said the BS cooler does NOT just bolt up to the stock lines if you use the stock aux oil cooler. The fittings were slightly different so they had to have someone fab up some lines with the proper fittings to get it to bolt up. I'm not sure if getting both the aux and center oil cooler and the supporting lines would solve this. I would imagine it would but I'm pretty sure you needed all the BS oil cooling or all the stock oil cooling. I'll look for it, but the internet on an aircraft carrier in the Arabian Gulf isn't so fast....
from that post:
Cooling Mods - Anybody with a Facelift C63 that pushes their car hard knows how awful the cooling capacity of these cars are. Within a few minutes of driving the car hard with WOT runs and constantly keeping the revs high id be able to get the car to over 250 Degrees. Keep going at this level for a bit longer (15-20 mins) and BOOM almost 280 degree oil temp and limp mode. It was like a **** star that went all softy after 10 mins No Good. Even when i had the thermal wrap, thermostat, and gaskets the car would still get there to quick for a supposed "sports coupe". The combo of the new BS coolers, earlier fan activation, and higher quality (Total) oil finally solved my biggest issue. Ive had the car for about a week now and Sunday i took the car out to push its cooling limits. As hard as i tried i could only get the oil to 235 degrees max and it would come down FAST when i got off it temporarily. AMG obviously did their homework with the black series to solve this issue. Harry/Bergen Imports had to modify the air ducts that route air to the oil cooler because of the different bumper of the Black Series. I also didnt do the BS Aux Oil Cooler just the main central one so harry went to a Hydraulics Machine Shop to get a custom line made that had the right fittings pressed into them to connect BS main oil cooler to Stock non BS c63 Aux cooler.
Last edited by chrisridebike8; 01-24-2018 at 08:00 AM.
In this thread https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...aders-etc.html the OP mentions a shop had to change the fittings. I noticed the orientation is different, but the fitting seems the same. I guess I'll find out!
I see you found it. Haha.
Originally Posted by chrisridebike8
I forgot who said the BS cooler does NOT just bolt up to the stock lines if you use the stock aux oil cooler. The fittings were slightly different so they had to have someone fab up some lines with the proper fittings to get it to bolt up. I'm not sure if getting both the aux and center oil cooler and the supporting lines would solve this. I would imagine it would but I'm pretty sure you needed all the BS oil cooling or all the stock oil cooling. I'll look for it, but the internet on an aircraft carrier in the Arabian Gulf isn't so fast....
from that post:
Cooling Mods - Anybody with a Facelift C63 that pushes their car hard knows how awful the cooling capacity of these cars are. Within a few minutes of driving the car hard with WOT runs and constantly keeping the revs high id be able to get the car to over 250 Degrees. Keep going at this level for a bit longer (15-20 mins) and BOOM almost 280 degree oil temp and limp mode. It was like a **** star that went all softy after 10 mins No Good. Even when i had the thermal wrap, thermostat, and gaskets the car would still get there to quick for a supposed "sports coupe". The combo of the new BS coolers, earlier fan activation, and higher quality (Total) oil finally solved my biggest issue. Ive had the car for about a week now and Sunday i took the car out to push its cooling limits. As hard as i tried i could only get the oil to 235 degrees max and it would come down FAST when i got off it temporarily. AMG obviously did their homework with the black series to solve this issue. Harry/Bergen Imports had to modify the air ducts that route air to the oil cooler because of the different bumper of the Black Series. I also didnt do the BS Aux Oil Cooler just the main central one so harry went to a Hydraulics Machine Shop to get a custom line made that had the right fittings pressed into them to connect BS main oil cooler to Stock non BS c63 Aux cooler.
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Originally Posted by chrisridebike8
I'd bet money on a lot of things:
-His C63 being faster on a road course than your black series.
-Him being more knowledgeable on the C63 than you (or just about anyone...DADS C63 might be one that knows more).
-I bet his wife is hotter than yours too...
If you want a no bull***** answer on what works and what doesn't work on a C63, BLKROKT is probably your best bet for info. Just saying....
Thanks for the kind words Chris. I don’t want to go too OT here, but I certainly don’t know half as much as people like Diabolis, Vladds, Wobble64, AMG3.2, Mort, Kriston, INSIGNIA, zcct04, kjkidd21, there are MB techs here like roadtalontsi or even Jasonoff sounds somewhat coherent at times. And many others I’m forgetting who have contributed much more than I have here. This forum is so full of knowledge from people with years of experience across all sorts of platforms, racing series (REAL racecar drivers), and specific areas of expertise (like jptaylor knows electrical like nobody else). I just happen to be insanely curious about how things work, question everything, read a lot, and am not afraid to think outside the box and try new things thru trial and error. Believe me there’s been a lot of error and fumbling around. I just appreciate being part of such a great community of knoweledgable and helpful people, learning a lot, and humbly contributing where I can.
But you’re right that my car would whip his anywhere any track straight or twisty anytime (he just seems to be one of those guys who want an “exclusive” look-at-me car, and pretend like he’s some sort of baller, which he seems to enjoy which is fine I guess if you’re into that). And yes my wife is smoking hot to boot. I’m just a lucky guy.
Thanks for the kind words Chris. I don’t want to go too OT here, but I certainly don’t know half as much as people like Diabolis, Vladds, Wobble64, AMG3.2, Mort, Kriston, INSIGNIA, zcct04, kjkidd21, there are MB techs here like roadtalontsi or even Jasonoff sounds somewhat coherent at times. And many others I’m forgetting who have contributed much more than I have here. This forum is so full of knowledge from people with years of experience across all sorts of platforms, racing series (REAL racecar drivers), and specific areas of expertise (like jptaylor knows electrical like nobody else). I just happen to be insanely curious about how things work, question everything, read a lot, and am not afraid to think outside the box and try new things thru trial and error. Believe me there’s been a lot of error and fumbling around. I just appreciate being part of such a great community of knoweledgable and helpful people, learning a lot, and humbly contributing where I can.
But you’re right that my car would whip his anywhere any track straight or twisty anytime (he just seems to be one of those guys who want an “exclusive” look-at-me car, and pretend like he’s some sort of baller, which he seems to enjoy which is fine I guess if you’re into that). And yes my wife is smoking hot to boot. I’m just a lucky guy.
Hey man I think its great you have such a passion for these cars. Just seems that you spend more time looking for ways to crap on peoples posts than to give your "humble" advice. I joined this site to get advice from people like you, not to get insulted. You know nothing about me , the cars I've owned/ built, or how I drive, and I don't know what you've done, so why all the crap talk? How about we both try to be a little more respectful to each other going forward?
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Originally Posted by Ron Olson
Hey man I think its great you have such a passion for these cars. Just seems that you spend more time looking for ways to crap on peoples posts than to give your "humble" advice. I joined this site to get advice from people like you, not to get insulted. You know nothing about me , the cars I've owned/ built, or how I drive, and I don't know what you've done, so why all the crap talk? How about we both try to be a little more respectful to each other going forward?
Thanks for the kind words Chris. I don’t want to go too OT here, but I certainly don’t know half as much as people like Diabolis, Vladds, Wobble64, AMG3.2, Mort, Kriston, INSIGNIA, zcct04, kjkidd21, there are MB techs here like roadtalontsi or even Jasonoff sounds somewhat coherent at times. And many others I’m forgetting who have contributed much more than I have here. This forum is so full of knowledge from people with years of experience across all sorts of platforms, racing series (REAL racecar drivers), and specific areas of expertise (like jptaylor knows electrical like nobody else). I just happen to be insanely curious about how things work, question everything, read a lot, and am not afraid to think outside the box and try new things thru trial and error. Believe me there’s been a lot of error and fumbling around. I just appreciate being part of such a great community of knoweledgable and helpful people, learning a lot, and humbly contributing where I can.
Thank you, I read this at work and made me feel all warm and fuzzy.
Here is the Black Series parts diagram. Aside from the oil lines being different, which shouldn't be a hard fix, I think getting the shroud, cooler, and brackets should be all I need to get it to bolt in.
Being Mercedes I'm guessing the total will be close to $1,500-2,000 for everything.
Jon, the 44O Cooling Upgrade is truly unavailable? Have you tried contacting Tracy at oediscountparts.com? She has helped source the 2 box kit for myself and other forum members.
I haven't been able to do a write up with photos yet, as car is currently in shop. (Coming soon)
Like you, I have a Facelifted coupe, but with 44O Upgrade installed, and was looking to better optimize the air flow path to the main (front) engine oil cooler.
This front oil cooler is part #510 in your parts diagram above, comes with the 44O Upgrade, and is the same as the BS oil cooler. Significantly larger than stock.
Front oil cooler lies completely flat with the 44O kit, and I believe the cooling air flow primarily relies on air pressure gradients from the horizontal rubber flap and air flow under car to pull air through the cooler and the larger 44O grill openings on the underside of the cooler panel (the one that lies parallel with the road).
I also wanted optimized air flow to the Trans cooler, which unfortunately sits directly behind the front bumper bar, in addition to better flow to the Aux oil cooler in passenger wheel arch.
To this effect, I purchased the BS Oil Cooler Air Baffle (#520). The design and angle of this air baffle could help achieve improved air flow to the main oil cooler, by now adding a new air flow path from the front while still maintaining the negative pressure air flow from below. It could also help improve air flow to the Trans cooler, as now there is an angled air baffle that can direct air flow upwards and around the obstructive front bumper bar.
Matt Stockwell at Leistung Autohaus in Garden Grove, CA was exceptional in his installation and adaption of the rest of the BS Cooling to the non-BS bumper of the Facelift coupe.
Matt found a few obstacles to adapt some of the rest of the BS Cooling components to the existing 44O Upgrade that required some modification:
The brackets #560 (and I believe #575) had to be cut and modified to adjust for the FL bumper to maintain new BS angle of cooler/air baffle (the BS bumper is taller and has much more vertical clearance to fit components).
The oil line #620 would not fit (this was a bit odd, b/c 44O Upgrade includes BOTH BS Main Oil Cooler & BS Wheel Arch Cooler), and Matt fabricated a custom line with hydraulic pressings from the existing 44O line.
The air guides #530 that further guide the air path to the center will not fit nor work with our FL bumper.
The larger BS air guide for the Aux Wheel Arch cooler will not work with our FL bumper. You will need to rely on the larger/improved air guide from the 44O Upgrade. This will delete the stock restrictive fan and inlet vent.
The existing smaller, lower lateral grill on passenger side that channels air to the Aux Wheel Arch oil cooler needs dremeling to clean up the air path (it is quite restrictive in stock form).
The bottom grill that is front and center is restrictive, particularly on the passenger side, as there is a 44O air guide component for the Aux Wheel Arch Cooler that spans both this bottom front/center grill, and the lower lateral passenger grill (that needs dremeling). Recommend a free flowing aluminum Hexagonal Mesh Grill from Custom Car Grills (thanks BLKROKT).
You can also check BLKROKT's thread where he demonstrates a more 'intense' bumper modification and free flowing grill application.
Best of luck and keep us posted. I will post a separate thread on my BS cooling adaption of the 44O Upgrade with photos sometime soon.
I have been in contact with Tracy, who I'm sure is sick of me by now. The kit is no longer available, however it seems possible to source the AUX cooler and the Black Series front cooler with appropriate components. Cost is an issue at that point, considering just the AUX cooler and components run $1,700. I think I can get away with just the front cooler, but the issues you raised are exactly what I was afraid of.
01-23-2018, 08:59 PM
No Good. Even when i had the thermal wrap, thermostat, and gaskets the car would still get there to quick for a supposed "sports coupe". The combo of the new BS coolers, earlier fan activation, and higher quality (Total) oil finally solved my biggest issue. Ive had the car for about a week now and Sunday i took the car out to push its cooling limits. As hard as i tried i could only get the oil to 235 degrees max and it would come down FAST when i got off it temporarily. AMG obviously did their homework with the black series to solve this issue. Harry/Bergen Imports had to modify the air ducts that route air to the oil cooler because of the different bumper of the Black Series. I also didnt do the BS Aux Oil Cooler just the main central one so harry went to a Hydraulics Machine Shop to get a custom line made that had the right fittings pressed into them to connect BS main oil cooler to Stock non BS c63 Aux cooler.
