Magic Pulleys
 

Well I finally got around to having the UPD underdrive pulley as well as the UPD idlers installed. Well, where do I begin. Products are well made and Installation went relatively smooth. Fit and finish is great. So for the performance part. Idlers offer no real performance but should be used more as preventive measure to the plastic stock pulleys. Now on to the underdrive. The car, as expected revs faster and smoother. Breaks traction even easier, that light blinks much more often now. The power gains are quite noticeble. Throttle response is much improved. If I were to guess about the whp gains I'd say 8-15. In all honesty I'd have to say the magic spacers perf gain was more noticeble. But nonetheless I am very happy with the UD pulley mod. Disclaimer, the reason for this thread is more to report on reliability of the underdrive aspect of this pulley not so much on how much gains there are. So with that in mind. I drove the car for about 100 miles today. Mix of highway, city, agressive and just cruising and can report that there were no electrical or power steering or ac issues. ECU didnt go ape shyt or anything. So far so good. Oh, and once again want to give a big shout out and a thank you to Shardul for these great products at great prices.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...b00db66859.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...f410fc1180.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...e9631ba385.jpg

Not dificult but then again I didnt do it myself. Pull the underside covers off, take off the fan shroud and air tubes and you got plenty of access. The underdrive pulley is the reason i had an amg tech do the install for me. Its one of those mods where there is no room for error. Just a side note for anyone who is wondering the ud pulley has no timing marks. Flywheel is locked at 40 deg with special tool thru bell housing. So keep your old pulley to be able to time it in the future.

While I'm at it I want to give a shout out to MB Motor-Werkes out of Camron Park Ca for doing the install. They are AMG specialist and one of the very few who were willing to do the install. Like I said no room for error on this mod.

Nice. How long have you had the crank pulley fitted for? 100 miles or more?

If you could, perhaps chime in every thousand or few thousand miles or so to update and keep this as a long-term thread to speak of how it performs over time. I'm sure it will be fine tbh hopefully anyway as this is not a solid pulley and will therefore still help to cancel out a lot of the engine harmonics/vibrations.

It's just a pity that there aren't dyno numbers to go by.

Keep an eye on the seals to see if they start leaking oil also.

I'm sure there are gains to this mod but I personally would not touch a crank pulley on this motor.

not sure why companies dont make under drive accessories pulleys and leave the crank as is.

Exactly. These 2 are rather unconventional mods and a lot of people dont agree with them.

That was the the plan. I'll drive it all weekend and give a progressive review, then check in every few thousand miles. It will be hard to do a real longevity review as I usually only drive it on sunday because its my only day off.

Yes and you can feel the 1lb saved on your driveshaft right. But I'm not supposed to feel 2+lbs saved on my crankshaft. Well thats not fair.

I will say this, the stock crank pulley is very well thought out and made. It looks exactly like the lightweight pulley I put on my clk550. And the stock clk pulley looks like the UPD pulley but weighs twice as much. Ive had it on the clk for 4 years now i believe and no problems. But that was just a lightweight not an underdrive.

I think its because the underdrive aspect is only part of the whp gains. Most of the gains come from csp being lighter. Off the top of my head I believe the clk gained 13 whp when I dynoed it 4 years ago, and that was just a lightweight pulley (4-6lbs saved) not an underdrive.

I always love these claims lol. I can see the tach get to 6500 .3 seconds faster so it must a gain in whp

A Guess is not a claim. The only claim was from a dyno done 4 years ago on my clk. Car does rev faster and is a bit more jerky. I see a bill for my mich 275's coming sooner rather than later.

Ok I drove the car some more today and noticed a few things. For starters the gains in power and respose are down low, we're talking idle to 4k. So for city driving and a dig you're golden. Here's the problem, the pedal. This pulley drastically changes the throttle feel. Its very touchy now, too sensitive. And the more I drive the more I'm having mixed feelings about it. Its getting a bit too jerky and while driving on freeway its damn near impossible to keep at a steady speed. Lots of up and down on speedometer. You have to barely touch pedal. Think of it like a sprintbooster on roids. Im thinking the underdrive is doing exactly what it was meant to do, steal early hp from accesories and help deliver it to the wheels. But its doing something that i wanted to avoid, its erasing the middle ground. Meaning Its turning the driving experience into *****foot or ballstothewall only. This is the reason I tried for a while to find one of those old eurocharged lightweight pulleys that were stock diameter just lighter. I'll report back every so often just for updates.

I would think that is more a function of the ecu adapting to you "testing out the new parts" rather than the actual pulley being that drastically different. I've gone from a 48 lb flywheel on a car to a 12 lb flywheel and didn't have as drastic a reaction as you seem to be having with this pulley. Enjoy it, but realize what is actually happening with you car and also give us some objective data. seat of the pants feel and placebo effect doesn't fly with a lot of us.

Without wanting to sound like we're trying to knock you down or anything, the gains surely can't be that pronounced on the car. Hell, if the throttle response really opens up that much down low, then this would be a superb mod for most of us on here. I'm surprised that you don't like this...most people usually want more of this when they get a box tune...

also....for what it's worth, the gains should be all over the powerband but mostly felt in gears 1 and 2, with a taper off in third and then nothing meaningful in 4th.

Thanks for the review!

Its not so much as too much power or gains or nothing like that. I'm saying that when you barely touch the pedal the car goes. Im talking minuscule, barely putting tip of your toes and curling with the slightest pressure and it goes, not rockets down road but just goes, slightest pressure off and your completely off the throttle. Which is awsome for city/spirited driving. On highway driving I try to keep it at a steady 80. 10-20 seconds later it creeps up 5-7 mph. Tried to slow down and pulled back slightly and I was completely off the throttle. And it did this the entire trip yesterday. Cruise controll will be used a lot more from now on, thats for sure. All I'm saying is I've never had pedal/throttle control problems and ive had this car for almost a year. I'll do a reset this morning and see how that goes.

Sounds like the ECU is trying to compensate for the rpm difference and is raising the TPS on you.

what is your TPS % at idle in park fully warmed up and what is it in drive with the foot on the brake?

Not at all man its all good. When I drive cars or use equipment I get a good feel of how it runs and then develop muscle memory to it. What im saying is on this car to keep it at steady speeds, before this mod, whether it be 35, 55 or 80 I would have to apply about 15% throttle, maybe more maybe less. Now its more like 5%, so the margin of error has shrunk down drastically. Which is why the car is feeling very jerky and somewhat unpleasant during that short time frame when I'm NOT trying to tear up the roads, mostly when wife and kids are with me.

Thats what seems like. As far as giving you an exact number. If I knew how I'd tell you.

live data says tp% 13.3 at idle.

You're inadvertently making me want one of these :o:

Don't get me wrong It's badass, but what Im disliking is the ability to control the speedo when im driving tame. The whole up down up down up down in mph is annoying, thats all, feels like my wife or ex gf's are driving. I just did the whole pedal reset thing just now. Did wonders for shifts but nothing for pedal/throttle.

I have a few units in stock.
Forum member pricing will be $550

Damn at that price its a no brainer. Drove the car another 150 miles yesterday. No problems with any of the pumps, alt or ac. As far as the sensitive feel of the pedal/throttle I'm starting to get used to it and enjoying it more and more. Seriously at this price, if you were on the fence, just place the order.

How come no one offers these underdrive pulleys for the M113 engines like the E500.
I think Evosport used to but they're no longer around.

I think it has a lot to do with fear mongering. Maybe someone or two had a problem with a poorly installed pulley or their car in fact didnt take well to it. Reported back and thats the impression that stuck. Also those early pulleys were damn expensive add that to the negative impression some have for this and you end up with alot of people saying fuc that. So units dont get sold and new batches dont get made. As far as what blk said, I get it, to him and others the risk vs rewards isnt worth it and thats fine. I think its more than 5 whp but I cant prove it since I didnt do a before and after dyno. Want a safer way to get more whp after all regular mods are done, get the spacers:D, sorry guys I had to do it. Like I said on earlier post I'll chime in every once in a while for a longevity report. If I start noticing some negative effects or if something bad happens believe me I'll let you guys know.

I sold a few since last week. I told the customers to use this thread so we can consolidate all reviews.

Sounds good to me. Glad some people are going to enjoy this soon. Now if they would only listen about those damn spacers, :D. I literally just got home from driving this car. This pulley mod is awsome. I guess I was just being a little biach as far as the pedal sensitivity, as I'm used to it now. But it did throw me off at first. As far as AC, Alt, and the other belt driven pumps, everything is great. No problems.

Just checking in. Put another 1200 miles on car. Pulley has been great so far. Voltage stays at 14v. We've had strange weather in central Cali. Freezing in mornings then got up to 85 degrees for a couple of weeks then it started to rain for days. Heater and AC worked great and had no issues. Headers should be here this week so looking forward to "completing" all planned mods for this car. Well, maybe flex fuel too if we get the group buy price again.

I like the plug and play aspect. Quality seems better too. But It cost double what the other ones cost though. Id be down for the $1600 with 550cc injectors. But now I guess price is going up? First things first, ARH header install.

Same

The guy who sells it claims it's superior? Shocker:) They certainly can't claim it's the same or no one would fork out the extra $1200. However, the power is in the fuel, not the kit. If it works it works, one kit will NOT make more power than another. If anybody tells you differently, be wary. There is no magic to it, the control unit alters the injector signal (based on input from a generic ethanol sensor that is the same in every kit I've ever seen) to compensate for the extra flow demands of e85. That shouldn't cost $1600. It's called AMG tax. The same afd kit for the M3 is $400 cheaper. For the Mustang it's $800 cheaper. All the same kit, only difference is the injector plugs. It's all a racket man:)

Not sure how that claim can be made without actually seeing the two kits side by side. The cheap one is plug and play as well fyi..

Fukenay! Then its time to hold off on that until it comes down to a more reasonable price then. Thanks for the heads up doc.

Sorry OP your thread is way off topic now. But, see Doc's excellent thread on his kit install from eflexfuel. https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...installed.html

Probably time that Doc or someone experienced start a separate comparo thread. I emailed and asked AFD what I was getting for all that extra coin after being convinced to buy the kit Doc got, which is like $360!!. They told me that they weren't familiar with Doc's kit, but that they noted based on his thread it was making less power and wasn't "as plug n play" because of needing to seat the connectors or whatever, and that the kit appears to be "generic" in that it wasn't "designed specifically for M156" and uses inferior fuel line components. Just reporting what AFD stated to me when I inquired. I do not vouch or otherwise support any of that. :)

I hear you and wasn't trying to be critical if it came off that way. My car only made 14 rwhp, but keep in mind that Afd/EC themselves only claim 15 rwhp gains without a FF tune. They all post up 25-30 rwhp gains but when you read the little print it says "with tuning". I don't have any such tuning as they won't sell me a FF tune because I don't have their kit. Also, with Dyno accuracy and weather variables, I wouldn't put too much stock in that 14 rwhp gain. I've only dynod once on flexfuel and I have no idea how much weather plays a factor with 105...but I can tell you on pump gas my car lost 15 rwhp dynoing on a 86 degree day vs a 59 degree day. Same mods....so it's almost pointless to look at my numbers as weather conditions were not comparable.

Sorry for the thread jack op!

No need to apologize fellas, I'm all for this shyt. Good talking points here so why would anyone complain. I think the 1 thing that makes ec ff kit more enticing is the fact they will only tune their kit. That alone is worth an extra 12-20whp. But is it worth an extra $600-$800. Thats the real question.

Just go oetuning for the e85 tuning.they give you tweaked files to your mods and give you race gas maps with there base tuning.

an oetuned car just trapped 128mph on e85

That's my plan. Hate to throw away the $$ I spent on the EC tune but there doesn't seem to be a choice.

I dont want it to come to this.....So Im holding out and trying to communicate with Jerry to provide me with a new map for larger injectors

EDIT...I dont want to rely on e85 only. Its my understanding that if you tune for e85 then you essentially have to be running e85 all the time. I liked the idea of being able to run a heavy mix of e85 when I want to use the extra power it provides but not be married to it. Thats how eurocharged explained it a while ago.

Ugh didn't realize the 30 ponies was due to restrictive E85 tune. So their graph shows a jump of 18 hp from base run on gas to just E85. The full 30 is with tune. Wow, that's tricky. I don't see any asterisks next to the bold fonts claiming 30!
For example:

Mercedes C63 AMG

Gains 30WHP and 31TQ!

and

The C63 AMG put out an additional 30 horsepower and 31 foot-pounds of torque running on 70% ethanol.

THe more ya know. Group Buy CANCELLED LOL

Still, 18 hp isn't bad with no additional tuning. If I remember that was at 70 or 75% ethanol, right? For comparison, my 14 rw came at 60% ethanol (I can't run any more without upgraded injectors) so the numbers are pretty similar.

Back to pulley talk. AMG tech said install of this pulley is a lot easier than any other aftermarket pulley he's ever done. UPD provides install instructions and tech followed them to the letter and install went smooth. I'll post a pic of letter in a bit, if I can find it. Anyone planning on doing this install will need special tool to lock the flywheel. Its around a 2 hr job.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...8824460ae8.jpg
Here it is. If any of you want Idler instructions I got them too.

Back in stock $499