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3.06 final drive swap - game changer!

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3.06 final drive swap - game changer!

 
Old 05-22-2018, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by BLKROKT View Post



Wouldn’t it be hilarious if this were the reason all along that some otherwise identically modded cars are far faster than others. What country are you in?
Canada.
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Old 05-22-2018, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by go team View Post
Canada.
Thanks. The plot thickens further....

What if all this mod takes is a Canada-spec diff and coding with SDS/Star/Xentry?

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Old 05-22-2018, 03:18 AM
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How interesting....

2 x notches for 3.06 in Canada and 1 x notch for 2.82 in cont USA (Mort can you check yours too please?)

I think this weekend we're gonna need a whole bunch of you to get under your cars and check. It might well be a regional thing. I'd love to check under a C63 over here, but I don't know anybody well enough to do that with. I've never read any brochures from MB over here though that state the 3.06 except the SL63.

Out of curiosity....which C63s from Canada have been particularly fast down the years or made strong power? lol this might also explain why some of the cars with the EC V7 tunes in EC Canada were dyno'ing so high.
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Old 05-22-2018, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by BLKROKT View Post
What if all this mod takes is a Canada-spec diff and coding with SDS/Star/Xentry?
Possibly, yes. But TCU would still need to be coded and that's in the transmission pan
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Old 05-22-2018, 04:54 AM
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00 W202 C200/02 W210 E430/55
If anyone got "3.06" here, pls. post your VIN #, to see the codes of "ECU/TCU/Diff. Ratio",,

and figure out the difference between "Canada/U.S/Japan" part #s with SR/codes..

-;ZAYED;-
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Old 05-22-2018, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Celicasaur View Post
Possibly, yes. But TCU would still need to be coded and that's in the transmission pan
Well, that’s the thing. Do you really think that all the TCUs are coded differently on the 3.06 cars or could it be as easy as just the ECU coding as mentioned above? For all the people who have swapped out their diffs you’d expect at least one reporting of a problem. And why would Canada only (so far) have the higher final drive, and not, say, the Black Series or P31 cars? I’m going to crawl under mine later this morning and get you another data point.
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Old 05-22-2018, 08:19 AM
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I have a ‘13 p31 car I just sent a message to my tuner to check the diff for me, I should have the info by tomorrow
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Old 05-22-2018, 08:20 AM
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It would be nice if it was as simple as that, but I suspect that if it was as easy as that, we'd have seen members going from 2.82 to 3.06 a very long time ago Besides...my ECU wasn't touched for this mod, so I can vouch that in my case at least, it's the TCU which needs the coding and not the ECU.

From everything that I'd read online, the black series was 2.82, so I'm really surprised that some normal FL models have it. lol maybe it's why the W212 always dyno's lower than the W204 models have since the dawn of time. Very valid point you made though about people swapping diffs down the years and not having problems... I know that from my E55 days, the TCU absolutely needed to be tuned for the 3.06 and bigger ratio's. Hell many people even did the swap, had the tune performed and still ended up with problems.

Skratch77....any chance you can get under yours and check if the LSD diff that you fitted a few months ago is the same ratio as before?

Looking forward to hearing what you have, as yours is a 122mph car from your last time out. When you post back later after checking, please let me know what your dyno numbers used to be when you first had the V5 tune flashed.
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Old 05-22-2018, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Celicasaur View Post
It would be nice if it was as simple as that, but I suspect that if it was as easy as that, we'd have seen members going from 2.82 to 3.06 a very long time ago
That is EXACTLY what I’m getting at. Some of the top NA times are damn near impossible to explain with weight reduction and slicks alone. Dodger was running 10.6 @ over 130mph NA without nitrous, and that would have taken probably ~600lbs of weight taken out. I have a sneaky hunch that there are some people who are very good at keeping secrets....

Last edited by BLKROKT; 05-22-2018 at 08:35 AM.
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Old 05-22-2018, 08:45 AM
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This does make me wonder that also tbh. I'm sure that the super thin front wheels and overall lightweight rear wheels are a strong factor for 1-2mph for sure. That's my next mod tbh. It's just proving hard to find an affordable wheel that looks nice and can be bought in a 9 inch rear fitment and 7 inch front. Not as optimal as 4-5 inches on the front, but it'll have to do. Weight reduction with the front seats on our heavy lux MB cars will acount for a nice amount for sure, but yet I don't really understand where ~600lbs is going to come from Sometimes I wonder why I don't just supercharge the damn thing and call it a day.....

Dodgers car was a piece of work. But then we also have Mthis capable of a 10.9 or flat 11 and he's on a PFL model without any diff change. I've always found that on NA cars, gearing and reduced rotational mass is far more effective at making a car go faster than bolt on mods. The fastest cars all tend to run 18" wheels too with lighter brake discs (hell, i've got a pair of 330mm rear brake discs on the back of my car even though it comes set up for 360mm from the factory).


Also just thinking about it with Skratch...I don't even know why I asked him to check under his car if a 3.06 went on by pot luck. If it did, he would know and would have reported back immediately. There's a distinctively aggressive feel in how the car pulls now.
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Old 05-22-2018, 08:48 AM
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Interesting!! Shorter FD is a great mod for sure. Made a good difference on my previous car. Probably even better on this one seeing TQ available.

My car is a Canadian car with no LSD ... I'll take a look at the ratio next time its on the lift
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Old 05-22-2018, 10:49 AM
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OK, so I got dirty. After cleaning my diff off I found the numbers that Scratch showed from his open diff. I have an open diff as well. I think my case is an A 202 351 07 05 but I had trouble reading the number and from some angles it looked like a 203 but I was pretty sure it said 202. I found the numbers and after at lot of scraping and cleaning it said 1288799 2.82. So I guess that means it is a 2.82 ratio. I have never tried the turns on a diff before. If I blocked one wheel and turned the input shaft it took less than 2 turns to turn the wheel one full turn. In the end I let both wheels float and it took less than 3 turns too turn the wheels one full turn and can estimate it was 2.82 turns but pretty hard to tell exactly if it was 2.82 but close enough. Both wheels stayed pretty close in sync but maybe not exact in turning one full turn each. So there you go Celica looks like MB Canada was incorrect in their publication.
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Old 05-22-2018, 11:24 AM
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Nice work Mort, thanks for doing that and checking back with us I'm still confused as to why Go Team has a 3.06 though, so I still think we need more members to chime in on this.

Fair play to you for keeping an eye out for the community in every respect here.

I just want to see some faster NA M156 cars tbh. That is all
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Old 05-22-2018, 12:37 PM
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I'll check the diff that's on my car now.it came out of a 2012 sedan with limited slip but I'm 99% sure it's a 2.86 because the car would freak out with tuning for it.

I'm tempted to buy a 3 07 c300 diff online and try to swap the rings in my spare diff.
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Old 05-22-2018, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by skratch77 View Post
I'm 99% sure it's a 2.86 because the car would freak out with tuning for it.

I'm tempted to buy a 3 07 c300 diff online and try to swap the rings in my spare diff.
Hey bro., are you sure you have "2.86"..!,,

and "C300" may uses smaller (HAG210), isn't..?!?

-;ZAYED;-
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Old 05-22-2018, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cm60k View Post
Hey bro., are you sure you have "2.86"..!,,<br /><br />and "C300" may uses smaller (HAG210), isn't..?!?<br /><br />-;ZAYED;-
<br /><br />100% my stock diff has 2.82 stamped on it.<br /><br /><br /><br />out of a 2013 development pack coupe

Last edited by skratch77; 05-22-2018 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 05-22-2018, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Celicasaur View Post
How interesting....

2 x notches for 3.06 in Canada and 1 x notch for 2.82 in cont USA (Mort can you check yours too please?)

I think this weekend we're gonna need a whole bunch of you to get under your cars and check. It might well be a regional thing. I'd love to check under a C63 over here, but I don't know anybody well enough to do that with. I've never read any brochures from MB over here though that state the 3.06 except the SL63.

Out of curiosity....which C63s from Canada have been particularly fast down the years or made strong power? lol this might also explain why some of the cars with the EC V7 tunes in EC Canada were dyno'ing so high.
I have a 2013 FL C63 over here in the uk. I need to adjust my handbrake shoes soon so will check when I am under the car.
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Old 05-22-2018, 02:29 PM
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I'll make a plan to get under mine to have a look at the diff, and report back.
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Old 05-22-2018, 02:42 PM
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Thanks Savage ^

Originally Posted by cm60k View Post
Hey bro., are you sure you have "2.86"..!,,

and "C300" may uses smaller (HAG210), isn't..?!?

-;ZAYED;-

Yeah Skratch, Zayed makes a good point - be mindful that eventhough the ratio might be what you're looking for, there might be small differences in the fitting of the pinion/bolt hole to the flange etc etc

A good example of this seeing as you're a BMW guy too would be the 3.64 final drive swap for the E46 and E39 M cars. You can get the 3.64 gear from an everyday 5 series BMW, but it won't be the correct 3.64 variant for use in the M cars.

For most of you in the USA, you'll have an easy supply of Chrysler units like this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2006-2010-Chrysler-300C-SRT-8-3-06-Rear-Gear-Carrier-Differential-Assembly-Diff/273229096932?epid=2270961998&hash=item3f9db927e4:g :ayoAAOSwPDdbA1gT

It's us over here in Europe that will have to battle for one.
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Old 05-22-2018, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Celicasaur View Post
Thanks Savage ^




Yeah Skratch, Zayed makes a good point - be mindful that eventhough the ratio might be what you're looking for, there might be small differences in the fitting of the pinion/bolt hole to the flange etc etc

A good example of this seeing as you're a BMW guy too would be the 3.64 final drive swap for the E46 and E39 M cars. You can get the 3.64 gear from an everyday 5 series BMW, but it won't be the correct 3.64 variant for use in the M cars.

For most of you in the USA, you'll have an easy supply of Chrysler units like this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2006-2010-C...oAAOSwPDdbA1gT

It's us over here in Europe that will have to battle for one.
this might be too good to be true but that diff looks like it might bolt right up to a c63.

and you are correct about the m diffs but the usa e36 m3 got the cheaper smaller gear set so it was an easy swap

Last edited by skratch77; 05-22-2018 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 05-22-2018, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by skratch77 View Post
this might be too good to be true but that diff looks like it might bolt right up to a c63.
I should hope so, it's the same diff that I have on my car

Originally Posted by skratch77 View Post
and you are correct about the m diffs but the usa e36 m3 got the cheaper smaller gear set so it was an easy swap
Man....I really want to do the 3.64 on my M5, but I refuse to pay more than like...£100GBP on the part, lol. I'm occasionally checking eBay for a unit from an old 7 series as those tend to be substantially cheaper than the ones in the E34. M cars of old were just straight up badass
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Old 05-22-2018, 05:33 PM
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I wonder if it's worth going for something more drastic. Those chrysler rear ends are 2.82, 3.06, 3.73, and 3.91-92 depending on what they call it.

Wish there was something in the 3.42 -3.55 range
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Old 05-22-2018, 08:50 PM
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Richmond gear makes a 3.23 and a 3.55
summit racing sells them under the mettingen 215 axle
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Old 05-22-2018, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by deadlyvt
Richmond gear makes a 3.23 and a 3.55
summit racing sells them under the mettingen 215 axle
Thanks,

Found them.
Waiting on the trans shop to see if they can program the tcu.
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Old 05-22-2018, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mr747 View Post
I need this mod
speak to Alan. I'm pretty sure he did this with bills car
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