3.06 final drive swap - game changer!
 

Finally - I've been waiting a long time to pull this off but now I have. My E63 is now running the same 3.06 final drive ratio as the SL63! :wootrock: Our stock rear end ratio is 2.82. Hey it could be worse...the M157 turbo guys are running 2.65!

For those of you that don't what this means, basically a bigger rear end ratio (also known as final drive ratio or pinion and ring gear ratio) will multiply more torque to the driven wheels from the engine. Bigger final drive gear means stronger acceleration at the expense of the top speed possibly in any given gear. There's a point of diminishing returns for sure (ie, too big isn't a great idea either) but a small upgrade is normally a good thing in most cars. Particularly on our cars which (typically) don't max out the top speed in fourth gear at the drag strip. This mod is sure to help more people trap higher and therefore run faster.

Anyway, enough of the explanation of how it works - for more detail, just Google it :)

So, here's how I did it - you can of course do it differently, but my way was (seemingly) cheaper at the time. I purchased a rear diff from a Chrysler SRT8 for £100 on eBay UK. Many Chrysler and MB parts are interchangeable and I remember from my E55 days that guys were taking gears designed for the SRT models and running them in their cars with good results. The next step was to find a guy that can perform the programming. A friend of mine is a great mechanic who knows a guy etc. It was this guy whom was able to tune my TCU (tranny ECU). The TCU tuning takes into account ramp angles, traction control, the ratio itself and other witchcraft which I don't know about. Shift points are not changed and torque limiters are the same. I was of course nervous about everything, but I've been known to take gambles before with tuning mods, so I thought what the hell. I gave the car to my friend a couple of weeks ago to start the work - the first step being to remove the TCU for tuning. Once the tuning was done, it was crunch time for the install and to see if it would work or not. With the stock AMG diff removed, my friend set about taking apart the casings. Why? My stock diff has the P30 LSD inside. The Chrysler unit didn't...I simply wanted the ring and pinion shaft from it. Some pics below, to get you up to speed at this point in the assembly:

Rear AMG diff removed

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...c7fe53e0b6.jpg


Both casings opened up. AMG on the right, Chrysler on the left

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...bf478408e7.jpg

Probably hard to make out from the next two pictures, but the casing is wider on the Chrysler unit. It was a tight squeeze wiggling out the P30 LSD from it's casing

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...3a9e2cd707.jpg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...61635cae07.jpg


Two units side by side. Excuse the dirt n ickiness

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...f7ebee2997.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...0d5b996607.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...a6470e597d.jpg


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...0bb794181c.jpg


Tranny mount was in clear view, so I decided to buy a new one. This is the original one with 95k of use (not that you can make out the use from this pic of course)

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...b9135d7b73.jpg


Bit irrelevant t show pics of the underside of the car, but what the hell. This is the rear end with the diff removed and propshaft flexdisc hanging

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...960370fe94.jpg


Driveshafts minus the diff

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...30293c7416.jpg

The all-important TCU

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...05e64c2e87.jpg


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...c8746baf48.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...1a69c5a78b.jpg


So with all of the admiration of the diffs out of the way, we set about splitting the diff units. First up was the AMG unit - these bolts are reeeeeeeally tough to crack.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...dea3f8de71.jpg


And now the Chrysler unit without the ring gear

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...23408b84b6.jpg


Aaaaand stumbling block. So it turns out that the propshaft flange off the diff casing is different from Chrysler to AMG (110mm vs 120mm). Undoing the big nut in itself was hard enough, but sadly the outside of the bearings which align the pinion to the casing had seized on both casings... :(

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...1b7e13c47e.jpg


...which meant that I had to then put them into a box and drop them off at the local transmission shop to have the pinion shafts removed. This took a week (annoyingly) but we got there in the end.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...2b1c351165.jpg


OE

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...1f6c4da021.jpg


Chrysler

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...7753017935.jpg


After the shop had done the work (new bearings installed of course), it was time to finally fit the 3.06 ring gear and LSD into the Chrysler casing which now has the AMG propshaft flange. Here are some pics of the part numbers of the ring gears - feel free to use these as a reference point. You can see the ratios stamped onto each ring gear.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...3b5a395546.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...76adf78820.jpg


That's pretty much it in terms of pics of the diffs n oily bits. The installation from there on was quite straightforward and the car was fine with the new gear set up from the get go. No adaptation reset or anything unusual needed. I picked the car up last night.

Here are some additional parts that you'll need for the installation, complete with MB part numbers. Nothing glamorous or exciting, but without these, you won't have an installation:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...5129ea650d.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...3400cf9be4.jpg

New tranny mount - notice the different (W212 specific) part number vs what was on the car originally...spooky

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...cc8e953a55.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...e97a4a8dfe.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...568da32ca2.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...579ddb9484.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...43498d68d7.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...337664f819.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...9c2a6c2b85.jpg




If any of you would like to go down the route of finding an SRT8 diff to steal the ring and pinion from, here is the part number:

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...c686889c2a.jpg




So how does it drive?

It's nice. I haven't gone crazy with it yet, but it definitely feels as though the car has picked up what would feel like 30-40hp....it's a bit like when you went from stock to tuned + headers. I particularly love how friggin angry the thing is in 1st and 2nd with minimal throttle, hehe, it's so forceful! I gave it a bit of gas on a slight bend in first and second (dry, warm evening) and it wanted to break traction. The seat of the pants feel is there and I'm happy with it for the moment. At some point this week I'll run some stopwatch tests to work out an average as to how many tenths have been taken off acceleration times etc. WOT certainly feels pretty damn nice, I must say.


How do I do this?

You'll need the 3.06 ring and pinion, either from an old Chrysler SRT8, or from a Mercedes SL63 or SLK55 (I think). Alternatively, you can go to somewhere like Richmond Gear or another vendor that will sell you the gears. The TCU tuning is critical or you'll hit limp mode (and it's why you've not read of somebody doing this previously). Lastly, you'll need the additional service parts above like the one-time-use bolts, fluids and gasket etc. I've been asked to act n behalf of my friends shop whom did the installation if anybody else needs this done in the UK regarding the installation, TCU tune etc


How much did it cost?

The 3.06 gear was £100GBP, but I had to bend over and pay £350GBP at the tranny shop for the pinion shaft swap. So call it £450GBP for the gears, which....tbh is about what they would cost as standalone items from RIchmond Gear in the USA
The TCU tuning was the GBP equivalent of $1350 - expensive, yes.
The installation was £600GBP which given how long it took and the inconvenience of having to push my car around the workshop, was pretty good value
The service parts from MB was around £200GBP, but that includes a tranny mount which isn't strictly necessary

Grand total is (sorry, I keep mixing $ and £) approx $2300....honestly, given how much we would pay for an airbox or CF driveshaft, this is pretty damn good value. Hell, a used pair of headers before installation is around $2k. The gains will 100% be there - i'll have some figures for you all in due course. Expect your car to be on downtime for approx 3 weeks. A bit of a pain, but if you can manage and survive the long install, it will be worth it. Acceleration gains are there any any rpm and it's totally linear. I expect that road course and drag guys will particularly love this mod as it will no doubt reduce ETs.

Sign me up. Nice work!

Love it man! Great work and definitely worth it.i had a custom 3.64 rear end built for my m3 and completely changed the car.

my issue is I have zero traction in first and mostly second gear now lol.

According to the Technical data sheets I downloaded from Mercedes-Benz Canada both the 2012 C63 AMG sedan and coupe have a Final drive ratio of 3.06 from the factory. Something to consider and research before getting too deep into doing a rear axle ratio conversion to a ratio of 3.06 on a C63.

Good call Mort. I'll look into the part numbers.

I have a 2013 open diff sitting in my garage. I can try to turn it and see what the final drive is

I need this mod

best bet is salvage yards.i paid 800 us shipped for a limited slip out of a 2012.

my car had every option other than the limited slip.

Gotta love them srt8's...

I guess the daimler-chrysler partnership in a way still continues in new models...and yes, I know the details, because I know someone is gonna say it.

If i'm not mistaken;

07-13 "W204 C63", always comes with "2.82",,

"3.06" with (HAG215) comes as optional with "W209 Clk55-Dtm & R230 Sl63"..!

-;ZAYED;-

I had read threads in the past about the ratio on the variants of the W204 (I was researching this high and low like a mad man for nearly a near) and I had actually found an old thread from Mort stating the same thing. However, from speaking with my friend and his TCU guy, checking with that MB online thing that tells you everything about your car, I was told that all W204 models have the 2.82. What surprises me then is why would MB give the 3.06 to the 2012 models, but not the black series which is the flagship of the M156 series :nix: Besides, we would also see faster times for the facelift models and higher trap speeds on average. I would also expect those models to dyno higher due to more force being applied to the rollers via the wheels. Food for thought. BTW FWIW i'm not getting defensive or anything...just stating what I think I know.

On a more positive note, hot damn, this thing feels so strong now! :smash: First gear was already a bit of a blur on my car but now it's just pure guesswork as to when I need to pull the trigger for the upshift. It really is over in a flash and I feel like I'm holding onto dear life as it shifts into 2nd and still keeps pulling hard. I wasn't able to time anything yesterday or log my speedo, but I'm super happy with this mod. Easily the single best mod on this car I've done. I imagine that a Weistec stage 1 car won't be much different to what it feels like right now (on a W212 body, not a stage 1 W204).

A lovely and unexpected side effect is that fuel economy at DD town driving speeds has actually gone UP! It's hitting the shift points earlier and happily going into higher gears at slow commuting speeds. For example this morning I noticed that it was going into 5th before 30mph and spent most of the speed from 20-30 in 4th. Hell it's going into 7th at just over 40mph whereas before it was 45mph. As as result, I managed 18.5mpg on the way to the office this morning. My normal average is between 16.8 and 17.2-3 on a good day. The icing on the cake is that even though I was in higher gears sitting on ~1000rpm most of the time, any dab of the throttle would result in the car smoothly accelerating forward with more torque than it would have done before in a lower gear....brilliant! :D I guess the only downside to this is that highway economy would no doubt suffer a little too. Just as well that I don't do much highway driving then.

Out of curiosity, does this have any ill effects on the smoothness of downshift rev matching? I figure the ECU is pre-programmed to rev to a particular rpm based on speed and gear selection.

Nope, not in the slightest. It's as smooth as I can ever remember my car to be tbh.

After this nice swap, is it needs to tune ECU or TCU..??

-;ZAYED;-

I know there's parameters that can be changed in the ECU and ESP unit for the final drive ratio, but don't know of anywhere in the TCU, is this why it had to be replaced?

No it doesn't show on the dada card,at least not on the ones I have seen.

Here are the Technical Data Sheets from MB Canada. They may in fact not be correct but this is what they showed at the time.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...dd42279320.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...e60520ab6e.jpg

You can pick up cheap c300 diffs on Ebay guys

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...01542af3c6.jpg

I think the info. about final Ratio from "MB/Canada" data-sheet is incorrect..!,,

unless if they got differ spec. coding in their VIN #s..!?!

-;ZAYED;-

I have my original 2013 diff off the car.i can confirm that we get a 2.82 ratio in the usa.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...e99b1556c6.jpg

Nice one Celica. Big ups for trying something out the box on your car.
Must feel great.

How interesting....

2 x notches for 3.06 in Canada and 1 x notch for 2.82 in cont USA (Mort can you check yours too please?)

I think this weekend we're gonna need a whole bunch of you to get under your cars and check. It might well be a regional thing. I'd love to check under a C63 over here, but I don't know anybody well enough to do that with. I've never read any brochures from MB over here though that state the 3.06 except the SL63.

Out of curiosity....which C63s from Canada have been particularly fast down the years or made strong power? lol this might also explain why some of the cars with the EC V7 tunes in EC Canada were dyno'ing so high.

Possibly, yes. But TCU would still need to be coded and that's in the transmission pan :nix:

If anyone got "3.06" here, pls. post your VIN #, to see the codes of "ECU/TCU/Diff. Ratio",,

and figure out the difference between "Canada/U.S/Japan" part #s with SR/codes..:)

-;ZAYED;-

It would be nice if it was as simple as that, but I suspect that if it was as easy as that, we'd have seen members going from 2.82 to 3.06 a very long time ago :nix: Besides...my ECU wasn't touched for this mod, so I can vouch that in my case at least, it's the TCU which needs the coding and not the ECU.

From everything that I'd read online, the black series was 2.82, so I'm really surprised that some normal FL models have it. lol maybe it's why the W212 always dyno's lower than the W204 models have since the dawn of time. Very valid point you made though about people swapping diffs down the years and not having problems... I know that from my E55 days, the TCU absolutely needed to be tuned for the 3.06 and bigger ratio's. Hell many people even did the swap, had the tune performed and still ended up with problems.

Skratch77....any chance you can get under yours and check if the LSD diff that you fitted a few months ago is the same ratio as before?

Looking forward to hearing what you have, as yours is a 122mph car from your last time out. When you post back later after checking, please let me know what your dyno numbers used to be when you first had the V5 tune flashed.

This does make me wonder that also tbh. I'm sure that the super thin front wheels and overall lightweight rear wheels are a strong factor for 1-2mph for sure. That's my next mod tbh. It's just proving hard to find an affordable wheel that looks nice and can be bought in a 9 inch rear fitment and 7 inch front. Not as optimal as 4-5 inches on the front, but it'll have to do. Weight reduction with the front seats on our heavy lux MB cars will acount for a nice amount for sure, but yet I don't really understand where ~600lbs is going to come from :nix: Sometimes I wonder why I don't just supercharge the damn thing and call it a day..... :rolleyes:

Dodgers car was a piece of work. But then we also have Mthis capable of a 10.9 or flat 11 and he's on a PFL model without any diff change. I've always found that on NA cars, gearing and reduced rotational mass is far more effective at making a car go faster than bolt on mods. The fastest cars all tend to run 18" wheels too with lighter brake discs (hell, i've got a pair of 330mm rear brake discs on the back of my car even though it comes set up for 360mm from the factory).


Also just thinking about it with Skratch...I don't even know why I asked him to check under his car if a 3.06 went on by pot luck. If it did, he would know and would have reported back immediately. There's a distinctively aggressive feel in how the car pulls now.

Interesting!! Shorter FD is a great mod for sure. Made a good difference on my previous car. Probably even better on this one seeing TQ available.

My car is a Canadian car with no LSD :( ... I'll take a look at the ratio next time its on the lift

OK, so I got dirty. After cleaning my diff off I found the numbers that Scratch showed from his open diff. I have an open diff as well. I think my case is an A 202 351 07 05 but I had trouble reading the number and from some angles it looked like a 203 but I was pretty sure it said 202. I found the numbers and after at lot of scraping and cleaning it said 1288799 2.82. So I guess that means it is a 2.82 ratio. I have never tried the turns on a diff before. If I blocked one wheel and turned the input shaft it took less than 2 turns to turn the wheel one full turn. In the end I let both wheels float and it took less than 3 turns too turn the wheels one full turn and can estimate it was 2.82 turns but pretty hard to tell exactly if it was 2.82 but close enough. Both wheels stayed pretty close in sync but maybe not exact in turning one full turn each. So there you go Celica looks like MB Canada was incorrect in their publication.

Nice work Mort, thanks for doing that and checking back with us :y I'm still confused as to why Go Team has a 3.06 though, so I still think we need more members to chime in on this.

Fair play to you for keeping an eye out for the community in every respect here.

I just want to see some faster NA M156 cars tbh. That is all :)

I'll check the diff that's on my car now.it came out of a 2012 sedan with limited slip but I'm 99% sure it's a 2.86 because the car would freak out with tuning for it.

I'm tempted to buy a 3 07 c300 diff online and try to swap the rings in my spare diff.

Hey bro., are you sure you have "2.86"..!,,

and "C300" may uses smaller (HAG210), isn't..?!?

-;ZAYED;-

<br /><br />100% my stock diff has 2.82 stamped on it.<br /><br /><br /><br />out of a 2013 development pack coupe

I have a 2013 FL C63 over here in the uk. I need to adjust my handbrake shoes soon so will check when I am under the car.

I'll make a plan to get under mine to have a look at the diff, and report back.

Thanks Savage ^ :y


Yeah Skratch, Zayed makes a good point - be mindful that eventhough the ratio might be what you're looking for, there might be small differences in the fitting of the pinion/bolt hole to the flange etc etc

A good example of this seeing as you're a BMW guy too would be the 3.64 final drive swap for the E46 and E39 M cars. You can get the 3.64 gear from an everyday 5 series BMW, but it won't be the correct 3.64 variant for use in the M cars.

For most of you in the USA, you'll have an easy supply of Chrysler units like this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2006-2010-Chrysler-300C-SRT-8-3-06-Rear-Gear-Carrier-Differential-Assembly-Diff/273229096932?epid=2270961998&hash=item3f9db927e4:g :ayoAAOSwPDdbA1gT

It's us over here in Europe that will have to battle for one.

this might be too good to be true but that diff looks like it might bolt right up to a c63.

and you are correct about the m diffs but the usa e36 m3 got the cheaper smaller gear set so it was an easy swap

I should hope so, it's the same diff that I have on my car ;)

Man....I really want to do the 3.64 on my M5, but I refuse to pay more than like...£100GBP on the part, lol. I'm occasionally checking eBay for a unit from an old 7 series as those tend to be substantially cheaper than the ones in the E34. M cars of old were just straight up badass :boink:

I wonder if it's worth going for something more drastic. Those chrysler rear ends are 2.82, 3.06, 3.73, and 3.91-92 depending on what they call it.

Wish there was something in the 3.42 -3.55 range

Thanks,

Found them.
Waiting on the trans shop to see if they can program the tcu.

:popcorn:

I have NA 55 with "2.82", i went with "3.45",,

it's sooooooooooo fun, really love how it acts,

of curse need to get good grip tires, for traction, and will sacrificing the top speed runs..!,

IMO; long Ratio is really really boring,,

shorter Ratio = unleash the soul of Hp/Tq..:)

-;ZAYED;-

What did your theoretical top speed drop to?

How does one tune the TCU? Is it like there are only a few specialists that can work the black magic in there or?

It’s that easy huh.... got me very tempted.

Just one question, by changing final drive are any other components at risk due to the increased power? Please someone help me understand what this does mechanically.

Tires? :rolf:

What this would change is how much torque gets put to the pavement. This would be greatest in first gear and would decrease in each of the subsequent gears. Therefore, the greatest stress would likely be from a hard launch. Now given the fact that we already easily break traction on street tires when launching, the actual torque put to the pavement at launch wouldn't change. The big increase in stress would be if you did this in conjunction with drag radials that hook up during a hard launch. In this case, the additional torque to the pavement from the new gearing would be "felt" by everything downstream from the differential. Basically the axles.

Long story short, I don't expect anything would be much worse off mechanically on street tires, but use caution with drag radials. Your tires will burn up quicker if you spin them more. Oh, and your cruising RPMS in 7th gear will go up a bit, so some negligible increases in wear and tear (I wouldn't be concerned about that), and lower highway mpg.

Sorry, i'm not that Expert, but as i know;

top speed depends to number of gears & gearbox tq., with number of diff. Ratios,

you have 7G, with more Engine displacement, means, shorter Ratio will be better range compared with my 5G,

that's why i guess shorter Ratio will be more reliable for better ET's,

if you notice; shorter Ratio is the first thing that BMW with DCT fans doing,,

and of course, that depends to everyone's driving style..;)

-;ZAYED;-

Thanks for the answer. Since the final drive gear is at the end of the transmission, basically everything upstream is safe! So on drag radials, some axles may get fried haha

Final drive is in the rear differential, but yes.

If we concider that, shorter Ratio will causes any generic Effictive, then why MB equipped a shorter Ratio on their unique models like:-

*W209 Clk-dtm: 3,06

*R171 Slk55 (BS/Au): 3,06

*W212 E63 TT: 3,06

*R230 SL63: 3,06

*R230 SL65 (BS): 3,06

*R199 Slr M. (722 Edition): 3,17

*R197 Sls Gt: 3,67

-;ZAYED;-

I did already LOL

This mod will go backwards for SC cars TCU cant handle extra TQ and will have all sorts of issues

NOT for us bro as per normal

If the TCU is tuned properly to account for the SC and new Final Drive, would this also apply to a Built Trans? (Weistec or Alpha AMS clutches)

I did a quick calculation using an online gearing calculator - there's loads of these online. I've only got 1st to 5th here, but it'll give you an idea at the stock rev limit bud. I got my gear ratios online for the "722.9 MCT" via a google search...apologies in advance if these are incorrect.https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...ddd3fad993.png

Pretty much :)


I think I already asked him this, but I can double-check with him - I'll shout you when I get the answer. I also already asked if he can do anything else, but he declined and said it's too much of a minefield to get involved with and due to the TCU being a PITA to get in and out, he'd rather he didn't get involved with things like this.

It has been tested here in Aus and 2 cars went back wards

If we can confirm the Canadian spec 63 has the 3.06 we might be able to just plug in a TCU from a Canadian spec car.

So i've called Eurocharged and Weistec neither one is willing to code the TCU. I called Bren Tuning they asked that I send an email so the tuner can take a look and see if what I want to do is something he can handle. Does anyone know of a shop in the USA that is willing to do this?

Try AMR. Ive read they can tune the tcu for the c63

http://shop.amrperformance.com/

BLK, he said it won't overwrite any existing coding that has been performed on your TCU :y

I just came back from a night drive and it's friggin awesome man. The sad truth of it is that my car is currently probably not that much quicker than a strong FBO C63, but I know where it has come from and it has come on miles from when it was stock.

The low down response and pull at light throttle in 3rd of 4th is so beefy! Full throttle is full of win. Getting off the line is much improved. I sometimes break traction in 2nd in the dry. 3rd gear is a much more aggressive gear in the powerband as it gets to 90. Definitely looking forward to hearing about results from other members when more cars have had this swap carried out :zoom:

I finally had a chance to get the data logger out and phone timing apps to get some numbers:

• 40-60 - 1.3s (prev best 1.4)
• 60-80 - 1.7s (prev best 1.7)
• 80-100 - 2.5s (prev best 2.8)
• 60 - 120 - 7.7s

Good improvements from this final drive mod, in addition to the state of tune that the motor is in right now (500whp). I was hoping for a little more help at higher speeds, but alas....the W212 is too heavy to put down some fast times that are comparable to even just an FBO W204. I need to decide if I want to continue and keep the car, or if it's worth bowing out at the top of the cars game :nix:

Awesome results, Thanks for sharing..:y

-;ZAYED;-

TCU
 

I am very new to this modifying my first mercedes. If I were to put a 3.55 year for the srt8 charger in my car what all would have to be done to the TCU?can anyone help me get in contact with someone who can do it and set up the TCU to play ball. Thanks guys

Hello Celicasaur!

Great write-up man! However, when you mention :

"After the shop had done the work (new bearings installed of course), it was time to finally fit the 3.06 ring gear and LSD into the Chrysler casing which now has the AMG propshaft flange. Here are some pics of the part numbers of the ring gears - feel free to use these as a reference point."

I, all the sudden had the sinking feeling that I may have bought all the wrong replacement parts for my 2007 E63 differential unnecessarily!!

You then later explain:

"How I did this:

You'll need the 3.06 ring and pinion, either from an old Chrysler SRT8, or from a Mercedes SL63 or SLK55 (I think). Alternatively, you can go to somewhere like Richmond Gear or another vendor that will sell you the gears."

So which is it? Are you taking the Ring & Pinion from the Chrysler 300c SRT8 differential and inserting them into your E63 Diff making certain the Prop Flange from the E63 is newly mounted to the SRT8 Pinion Gear as well as the 3.06 Ring Gear being mounted to your P30 LSD or are you taking the Prop Flange from your E63 as well as your LSD and transferring them into the "Larger" Chrysler differential case and the using that Chrysler Differential's 3.06 Gears with your LSD and somehow attaching it to the subframe Cross Member on your E63? If the latter is the case, then I spent $500 on wrong internals to rebuild my E63 Diff as compared to buying internals specific to the Chrysler SRT8 Diff??

If the latter is the case, is it due to the 3.06 Ring Gear being too big in diameter to fit into the Mercedes E63 Differential Case when mounted to your P30 LSD? Also, does the Chrysler Differential mount perfectly to the front Mercedes E63 Subframe crossmember to which the differential bolts to? I'm tending to think not just from viewing online pictures alone, but some clarification on this subject would be greatly appreciated!

You then list several components that must be purchased to do the swap, one of which was Seals which I had presumed were for the E63 differential case axles, but I may have misunderstood it from the Tranny Pan Gasket Seal?? I've already ordered the Bearings, crush washer for the Pinion, the Seals and protective discs for the E63 Diff so I'm certainly hoping that it is, in fact, the E63 Diff that's being used with SRT8 internals and not the other way around???

Ahhh yes, so the only reason I opened up my AMG diff was because it has the P30 package LSD, so I wanted to keep that - otherwise the whole thing would have been a simple affair of bolting on the Chrysler diff directly.. The bigger gear needed to be homed inside the Chrysler diff but with the AMG propshaft four-pointy-thingy flange.

I can't remember the other misc parts needed, but in a nutshell, i think diff fluid and the TCU strech bolts are pretty paramount.

Celicasaur,

I'm not sure. I understand when you say the bigger Gear needed to be honed inside the Chrysler Diff?? Had not the bigger gear come from the Chrysler Diff in the first place???

So Again, did you take the Ring & Pinion from the Chrysler SRT8 and swap into the AMG Diff? Please read my previous post and answer accordingly so we can all be certain of how to go about making the plunge to make this conversion.

The 3.06 fits in the diff just fine... it’s the same ring and pinion as used in the slk55/clk55/c55 which is basically the same unit as in the c63 ( don’t remember what the e63 uses for a housing but I believe it’s the same hag215 axle design
I don’t think the Chrysler has the same housing so I doubt you can just bolt the entire chrysler unit in but I may be wrong if you can that would be the way to go if you can find one with a lsd and just bolt the unit in

So who can I just pay to do this for me lol

http://limitedslip.de/index.html

The diff is the easy part. Good luck on the TCU/ABS/ESC programming.

has anyone done this other then the e63 also track times before and after?

TCU tuning is now pretty available - @5soko in NY/Tri-State does it, and I can also do it. Couple other places here and there as well!

Thanks!

Dave

I understand that TCU tuning for faster shifts and increased line pressures is available. I’ve had mine tuned since 2015.

However what we’re talking about here is getting a shorter final drive gear to get along with the TCU, ABS and ESC units. 3.06 modified vs 2.82 stock. Without correct coding for all three, it won’t work at all. (see above)

Are you saying that EC can do this for the TCU? And could you explain how exactly please? What about the other dependent control modules?

GLK350 rwd came with a 3.27 final drive differential.
Since it’s based off the w204, would this swap in?

mb engineering software.

What I would like to know is if the TCU from 2007 E63 (M156-W211) can be re-flashed/programmed via directly connecting to the electrical connector or via the OBD socket? The TCU for this sits inside the Transmission on top of the Valve Body and has an electrical connector that sticks out on the Passenger Side Front and fits through a hole from the bottom of the Tranny. The make of the TCU is Siemans VDO, Part # A 033 846 73 32, VGS2-NAG2. I've been told that "Tony" from Race IQ in Atlanta can do this but after talking with one his associates who operates locally here in S. Florida told me that he doesn't think it can be done??? He of course hasn't returned my call either. I'm sitting here about to replace the Rear Bushings, Hubs, Flanges Rotors and have the bits to rebuild the E63 differential. I also bought a Diff from a 2005-2007 SRT8 from Challenger, 300C with 3.06 Gears, but I'm holding back on getting a LSD until I know I can get the TCU calibration done for 2.82 to 3.06 Rear diff ratio??

Can someone let me know if the have a similar TCU and have had this swap done successfully? If so, please let me know who I should get in touch with to have my TCU recalibrated?

Getting ready for a Hurricane tonight, so I'll be hunkered down waiting for an answer!!!

Need Ktag read to change final gear ratio. Its possible to change it

What's Ktag?

K-tag is device for Engine control unit and transmission unit reading and writing. Peoples who made chiptuning have it.

ofcourse it can be done and has been done.

Only you would question a Forum Sponsor/Vendor in such a condescending manner... I bet you're parents are real proud of the ****ing douche they raised. But if they're from Ontario too, it's par for course.

Howwwww on earth was this condescending?! :nix:

Believe it or not, he was being very sincere here and his questions/points-raised were perfectly rational ^

Sorry replying so late to you.

Ok so I had the diffs removed out of both casings because i needed to mate the AMG lsd to the Chrysler ring n pinion...which then meant homing them both as one unit into the Chrysler casing. I hope that helps to clear things up. You do however need to use the AMG flange which connects the diff to the propshaft.

Here's a quote of mine from the OP:

"After the shop had done the work (new bearings installed of course), it was time to finally fit the 3.06 ring gear and LSD into the Chrysler casing which now has the AMG propshaft flange."

Fuk off

Thanks dude, I was just asking a question. Guy needs to relax.

So the question wasn’t answered either which is interesting. Do you really think the required TCU coding for this can be done via OBD2? What else, probably ABS/ESC too? I didn’t think so but I’d be happy to be wrong here...

From what I understood, it simply wasn't possible to do it via ODB2, hence why the TCU needed to be physically removed. But hey...technology improves over time and maybe somebody has found a way. One thing is for sure though - we'll start seeing a lot more people running a final drive upgrade if/when it really is as simple as plugging into the ODB2 port for the tune. It's the tuning aspect which makes this mod such a PITA.

Worth mentioning though, I remember a little while back that RENNtech claimed they could tune the TCU on the W212 turbo cars via ODB (torque limiters and all that jazz, I didn't see anything about gear ratio's though). Maybe something exists, but it hasn't gone mainstream yet :nix:

It's ok. You didn't understand the legit technical question and assumed it was condescending. It happens.

The tuning that @5soko and myself offer allows exactly what this thread is about :) In addition to all the benefits of a TCU tune like faster times, better, smoother shifting, higher line pressure, etc. You do have the ability to change your final drive if you'd like to something more aggressive. All software changes, all done through the OBD2 port.

Let me know if you have any questions!

Thanks!

Dave

This is great news for the community tbh.

3.06 or 3.27 with a 7600rpm auto-shift would be so nice going WOT from 70mph-1000mph.

That’s a slam-dunk then, thanks @DavesMeanE's :y

When are you guys back in CA - this can only be done in-person, right?

@DavesMeanE's, do you know if Eurocharged Canada will have this capability at some point?

Toronto can do it currently - Get in touch with Slav.

Thanks!

Dave

For now yes, we are only doing it person - CA #2 date is TBD, It's going to be at the same place - Star Motor Werks in Costa Mesa. You can contact Chris Mattox over there if you have any questions about how the last one went.

Thanks!

Dave

Excellent, thanks!

I have graphed axle torque on a speed graph (I did not include 7th gear) for 3 options with a typical bolt-on 450whp car, one is 2.82 vs 3.06 with both redline at 7000rpm, one with 2.82 at 7000rpm vs 3.06 at 7750rpm and a third with 2.82 and 3.06 both redline at 7750rpm.


2.82 and 3.06 both with 7000rpm redline

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...3d31c8decb.jpg


2.82 and 3.06 both with 7750rpm redline

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...4192d00b72.jpg



2.82 with 7000rpm redline and 3.06 with 7750rpm redline

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...0d8bd5a742.jpg

That’s cool dude, thanks for posting!

Uh. What am I looking at exactly?

Theoretical top speed between the two gear sets (making some assumptions about tire size) but just so you get the idea... go with the 3.06's and you'll loose a little theoretical top end - but probably won't be a meaningful loss. It also shows the change in the mph range per gear.

Thanks! Really good info there!

Dave

Do you guys think shorter diff. Ratio will be better for more torquing..?!?, such as 3.27 or even 3.46..!

noticed; BMW E90 M3 & E60 M5 uses kinda shorter Ratio, 3.15 & 3.62..!!!

-;-ZAYED-;-

Gears 1 through 6 showing Axle torque graphed by speed. The dashed lines are the 3.06 gear and the solid lines are the 2.82. The higher the line is up the graph, the higher the axle torque at any given speed per gear. Axle torque in this graph is wheel torque multiplied by the individual gear ratio and then multiplied by the axle ratio. This would be the effective acceleration potential taking grip and aero out of the equation, the mathematical way to determine which gearing setup or powerband change will be faster at a given speed. The other thing to consider and visualize is that a car's torque curve is a good representation of it's accleration g's. A car with a flat torque curve will maintain g-force through that gear, while a car with a falling torque curve will lose g's through the rpm range. You can see this represented where the 2.82 gear actually have an acceleration advantage over the 3.06 gears at certain speeds because at higher rpm the torque is falling faster than the gearing can keep up with, so the longer gear will be at a lower rpm at the same speed (in the same gear) however as the torque is falling it ends up making less axle torque at 7500rpm than the longer gearset at 6700rpm at the same speed (as an example).

This graph is what you use to determine how rpm, powerband, and gearing can be help or hurt a car depending on its uses.

Awesome, thanks for the explanation. If it’s not too much work, could you please make a graph showing 2.82 vs 3.23?

Here you go, should also mention that the speeds are based on factory 19" tire size circumerence for a 255/30/19


So in this example you see that at 60mph/100kph the 2.82 has an advantage being in 2nd gear still with higher axle torque vs the 3.23 which has to be in 3rd gear at that speed, so it will be playing catch up. This car would be better off moving the torque curve to the right to take advantage of higher redline and shorter gearing. For road course use the shorter final drive will always be an advantage with this powerband, but otherwise it is a toss-up, again depending on application

2.86 vs 3.23 both with 7750rpm redline

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...f11178f136.jpg

That’s so excellent, thank you! And yes, this mod is primarily for road course benefit. Looks like it’ll do the trick. :y

i don't see how this was what you say it was. he was asking a direct question looking for a direct answer. i personally felt this was a direct question with no harshness about it.

Im just going to put this out here... but......

Shorter gearing is compensation for lack of power.

:zoom:

on a side note.why is everyone so proud of replacing the bearings in their diff? I feel like this is totally unnecessary. These bearings never fail. The only reason to replace them is because you don't have the tools to properly remove them. I've seen like 3 diff failures on benz cars over the last 15yrs. 1 had 200k and original fluid (likely very little by that time) and 2 that picked up plastic bags that got sucked into the pinion seal and caused fluid leakage to the point of failure. But replace away, just like people replacing ignition coils that work just fine too and don't really fail either unless you don't change your spark plugs when you should.

lack of power indeed. :rolf:

[QUOTE=CelicasaurQuote:
Originally Posted by [b]E63007
Celicasaur,

I'm not sure. I understand when you say the bigger Gear needed to be honed inside the Chrysler Diff?? Had not the bigger gear come from the Chrysler Diff in the first place???

So Again, did you take the Ring & Pinion from the Chrysler SRT8 and swap into the AMG Diff? Please read my previous post and answer accordingly so we can all be certain of how to go about making the plunge to make this conversion.

Celicasaur Posts:

Sorry replying so late to you.

Ok so I had the diffs removed out of both casings because i needed to mate the AMG lsd to the Chrysler ring n pinion...which then meant homing them both as one unit into the Chrysler casing. I hope that helps to clear things up. You do however need to use the AMG flange which connects the diff to the propshaft.

Here's a quote of mine from the OP:

"After the shop had done the work (new bearings installed of course), it was time to finally fit the 3.06 ring gear and LSD into the Chrysler casing which now has the AMG propshaft flange."


Celiacsaur,

How on earth did you mount the Chrysler Diff to the Mercedes Subframe Front Crossmember? The AMG Diff mounts to that Crossmember with 4 bolts into the front side of the Diff which has 4 respective eared protrusions frontside that are drilled to receive those 4 bolts. That front Crossmember is attached to the Subframe via 2 Bushings bolted R&L to the Subframe. The AMG Diff is connected to the rear via 2 Bushings bolted to the rear Crossmember that is not removable as the front one is.

See pic :

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-2008-C...rdt=true&rt=nc

oops the pic didn't paste! But hopefully you get my drift. It appears the SRT8 Chrysler Diff just does NOT have the same mounting points?? As such, how did you manage this??? I actually bought and received an SRT8 3.06 differential, but it's still in the wooden box it shipped in until I can find a solution to this dilemma, to change gears first and then cross fingers in hopes that someone can reprogram the TCU via mail/return, or do same and wait weeks/months until whenever Eurocharged "Dave et als" comes to Miami and then haul my E63 down there and hopefully drive away??

Yikes????

I'm confused man....truth me told, i'm pretty sure i've got an old AMG diff casing and 2.82 gears with chrysler open diff with copious amounts of rust sitting in a dark corner of my garden right now. Maybe I had a different type of casing from the SRT8? I think mine came off a 300C Hemi.

It's a little cloudy for me to remember, but if I wrote this in my original post, I wouldn't have mixed up the info. Also worth noting is the fact that I had to have the propshaft flange removed from the AMG casing, which presumably would have been to mount onto the chrysler unit. I'm sure I also posted as many part numbers as I could... :nix:

Celicasaur,

Can you let me know what year your E63 is so I can determine if the Chrysler Diff you used actually fits on the differential Crossmember of the E63? Also, who did you get to tune your TCU?

anyway i can get that graph on a 2.24 and 2.47 with an 8000rpm shift point? :nix:

Hey man, it was a 2010 model with the square-ish headlights

Some guy tuned it via a friend of mine. It was a long process, but thankfully you guys have Eurocharged offering this service now 😀

Not without a dyno graph. But you're going the wrong way, you want to go with a shorter final drive the higher your redline is provided your torque isnt dropping, otherwise you don't get any benefit

He’s supercharged so probably needs higher gearing to hook

going to a substantially taller final drive will negate the additional power almost to the point that a stock car with shorter gearing will be faster. It only starts making sense if he is making, lets say 410wtq flat to 8000rpm, then the taller final drive will make more axle torque after about 6000rpm in each gear vs the typical 450whp bolt on car with falling torque after 5000rpm.

torque for days. big stuff going to happen soon, time to get out of the 10s.

If you can provide a dyno graph of a similar car I can graph it properly for you.

OK Guys, I finally bit the bullet and went ahead with the 3.06 Gear swap from a 2009 SRT8. I brought both cases, after removing the differentials, to a local shop and had them remove both Pinions. I tried and failed miserably after having destroyed a Dead Weight Hammer, a 4x4 block of wood used with a 10lBFH! etc!! When I went to the shop to pick up the case and the gears the guy told me he was amazed at how good shape the gears were and showed me just how "shiny" the Pinion was, which was evidence of its having been broken in very well, as well as how smooth and unblemished the Races and bearings were!! I said that I had new ones but he insisted not to even bother! In fact, after further dis
cussion, he said that if I gave him a hand, he would swap over the Races for me and set the Pinion!!! After 10 minutes, "we" were done!! All he needed me for was to hold the Pinion in place as he tapped in the bearing as tight as he could manually with a punch. Afterwards, he showed how smoothly it turned but I was definitely concerned about the proximity to the Ring Gear the Pinion would be as well as Backlash. He told me that since the Races fit perfectly, it was likely the same spacer he used on the Pinion would be OK. Further, there was no Crush Washer interestingly, neither on the SRT8 nor the E63!! He instructed me to go home and tighten it down with just the Flange on to see if it all lined up properly. So I ended going back to first tighten down the Flange, first by giving it a few whacks with the nearly destroyed dead weight hammer to seat it, then I took my trusty DeWalt Impact Driver to it carefully watching the flange get drawn to the Bearing. I might mention that in order to keep the flange/Pinion from spinning, I used old bolts from the Rubber Discs, the same that go through the flanges holes obviously only doubling up on Nuts, one drawn in as far as it would go, and then set that in one of the flanges holes with a washer and used another nut on the underside to keep the bolts protruding above the flange such that I could use a lever to keep the flange/Pinion from spinning while I tightened down the nut. So when it touched it, I let off and checked. Still fairly free-spinning...so I ended up using only a few 20 degree turns to get it tight to were there was a bit of "resistance". When I looked at the Nut, there is a mark on it that aligns to where the first threads are. So I noticed that the Nut I removed showed that in order to be in the same depth as the original was, I needed to make another 1/8th turn and I was done!!

So then I went ahead and installed the LSD using the same CirClips and their respective sides as they are both different widths. I set the first Race in the side opposite the Ring Gear first along with the CirClip and used a punch and light hammer to tap it into its notch. then I flipped over the Diff gently so that the LSD was seated in the race just installed and then proceeded to install both the Race by tapping it with the punch as well as the CirClip. This required a bit more effort as it was a very tight fit. When finished I used some gear paste to see if all was centered and then took it back to the shop and had my guy inspect it. He said it was great with hardly any backlash. He actually mentioned that there was more backlash on racing cars!! So all that's left is to install it in with my entirely newly refurbished subframe,new shocks, airsprings bolts bushings etc and hope and prey that my contact can change the gearing via the OBD port to effect both the TCU and ECU! Have a Merry Christmas!!!

Nice update. :y Please report back on the TCU tuning as that’s the only thing keeping me from doing the same. Are you in the US, and are you having EC do it?

soon enough I'll offer reprogramming to the 3.06 final drive as well. I'll be validating on my own vehicle. I'll be also hopefully be updating my 722.9 torque converter vehicle to enable agility mode as well. more to come!

Yo @E63007 any update? How’s your swap working for you?

3.06 Swap
 

All right! After many months of working on the total upgrade of the rear end starting with the Rear Main Seal, Drive Shaft Rubber Disc’s, all new kmac bushings for the rear upper control arms, new UPD Toe arms and OEM Torque Arms + Bushings in the rear Carrier, Air Springs and Shocks, Brakes, Rotors, Hubs, Steering wheel and Gearshift rebuild with new leather, alas, the 3.06 gear swap which initially did myself, I’m finally up and running!. I say initially because at first test drive I had a bad vibration upon deceleration which pointed to the pinion not being seated properly, so I never got above 35mph! It also could have been due to my NOT Spreading the Diff case when installing the Axle Bearings.

The good news is the programming for the 3.06 gears that occurred over TeamViewer thru my STAR worked as planned along with the addition of “A” on the dash, meaning an additional function in relation to Comfort, Sport and Manual Mode. “A” stands for Aggressive or the aforementioned “Agility”, BTW. But being I was having issues with drivetrain vibration and not driving over 35mph, I did NOT get to really feel it other than the very evident peppy shifting. Nevertheless, after that realization, I parked it in the garage only to see a coolant leak emanating from the driver side intake port on the radiator. I also noticed oil leaking from the compressor as well as down the driver Airspring leaking hydronic fluid onto the bolt attached to the Spring Arm. Being that I knew I had to wait for the Radiator and Condensor/Drier to be delivered, I removed the Airspring and brought it back to RMT and they opened it up right there peeling back the boot showing me the hydraulic fluid leaking and explained that once that happens, there’s nothing they can do to “save” the Airspring. I was thinking I was f _ _ _ _ d, and I asked if there was another one I could buy? He noticed I had completely misunderstood him and said since I had already brought it in for a rebuild, and they knew full well the car had been up on stands for the last year meaning the shock had only 2000 mi on them since rebuild, he said that he had many others in stock and that they would set me up no problem under warranty!!!! Yeah buddy!!

Anyhow, while I was waiting for that to be done, I was busy building up the passenger side air intake port on the new radiator by scuffing it up and using epoxy based fiberglass to build up about a 3/4” extension to allow the Air Intake tube to fit around it on the Passenger Side. The problem was that my passenger Intake hose was just short of being able to secure itself around Port of the old radiator, so in effect, air from the engine bay was being sucked into the Intake. I was doing that while doing the Rad/Condensor, A/C Expansion Valve & Heater Combination Valve at the firewall ( requiring the removal of the wiper motor) as well as removing the Differential, again!! As for the Diff, I did it by just removing one axle nut, and disconnecting the toe and strut arms on that same side and then removed that sides axle. Then I supported the Diff with a tranny Jack, disconnected the bolts, dropped the diff and pried it away from the other axle. Then sent it off to get done right. Installing it presented another challenge but the tranny jack was essential. I actually got the Diff back before receiving the other parts, so I got right to it. I also had a rotor issue whereby it was warped so I ended up buying another one (FCP Euro) and RMAing the warped one for full credit. It happened to be the passenger side so that’s the side I disco’d everything to drop the Diff. Then I finally got word of my custom Steering wheel/gearshift leather being completed, so I arranged to drive south (Pompano,Fl to pick up the Airspring on the way to Plantation to pick up the Steering wheel/Gearshift and then busted a move down to Miami where I picked up a new Windshield ( for $250 vs $500 up here!)). I was surprised the Windshield was as light as it was and fit perfectly in the hatch back of the Audi A5 I rented!

Well I can now say that I’ve got her all back together for the most part and went for a test drive in Comfort Mode last night and used the paddle shifters as always and got her up to 80 in 4th and 100 in 5th ( could have gone much more if it weren’t for being on 45 mph back road!) before downshifting. Oh, and the new steering rack bushings definitely made the steering a little stiffer too! Great feeling though! A/C blows cold, even though I f_ _ _ _ _d the kitty buy NOT purging the damn Vacuum/R134 Charging Hose before opening up the port! That means I inadvertently allowed whatever air was left in that hose after the overnight vacuum phase to be introduced to the A/C system once I connected the R134 to that same hose and then opened up the Low side (Blue) to charge the system. Had I purged that hose by pushing the Schrader valve while keeping the low side closed (both sides actually as during the charging phase as you never open up the high (Red) side!!) I would have avoided doing this but being that there was a protective rubber cover on the valve it didn’t dawn on me until after realizing that the system wasn’t charging as quickly as it should have that I had missed doing that step. So I purged by closing the Low side after the first ( of 3) cans of R134! Yeah, it was first time! Live and learn! I still don’t have the Wiper Motor installed so I’m sorta waiting to get the windshield installed before really taking it out. I also have a huge stereo install to do too!

I’m not sure what any of that means but okay.

Did you ever get this figured out? Are you providing this service yet?

hi, thanks for asking. after much research this type of service would require us to own STAR/DAS as well as a few other items and offer this service in person. we do not have any intention to offer this remotely through team webviewer like many offer so we've decided at least for now we will not be offering this service.

C32 runs a 3.06
 

cant I use the c32 rear diff or the c55

I think the c32 is a different diff if I remember correctly c55 should work as it's the same hag215 axle

yes c32 has bolts for sure. Haven't seen a clk rear diff before

It will be heavily dependent on year and model. Also the same for your car. There are two different W211 differential housings, depending on year. The early W211 uses the same differential as E55 W210. After that, you are looking at other "bigger" cars than the W203-based cars.

I guess the daimler-chrysler partnership in a way still continues in new models...and yes, I know the details, because I know someone is gonna say it.

Yes it is. Actually, I have a 215mm diff from a 2008 Challenger SRT8 in my Crossfire, and it is using the same part number Wavetrac as the MB.