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-   -   Heads up: HD Tuning vs. OE Tuning (https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w204/718137-heads-up-hd-tuning-vs-oe-tuning.html)

deanmc 08-13-2018 07:37 PM

Heads up: HD Tuning vs. OE Tuning
 
Just wanted to share a friendly run I did with a friend, comparing our tunes. This is my second ECU tune, went from Weistec to OE, but I'm seriously considering a retune by HD after this. My car made 462whp/422 tq peak on the dyno, and his is making about 20 more on same dyno. Mods are listed in the video. I'd love to hear any experiences you guys have had with HD.

Edit: Mods listed below
Silver C63(lead car): P31 package, ROW airbox, AFE filters, Benzworks headers, 2nd cat delete, HD tuning custom dyno tune, 100 oct., Hoosier drag slicks.
Black C63 (camera car): ROW airbox, OEM filters, Benzworks headers, OE tuning stage 2 tune, 91 oct., Nitto NT555 drag radials.



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skratch77 08-13-2018 07:43 PM

You got walked! I would run pro drys and cut out the second cats and run 100 oct and load up the race map oetuning gave you.

SatelliteMan 08-13-2018 10:05 PM

Love HD. The pops are insane and the power gains are the real deal. I'd prefer to keep them a secret but perhaps it's too late :) !

Savage-wp 08-14-2018 11:32 AM

Is HD a canned tune, or is it a custom Dyno tune.
You can't beat a custom tune

I am Jeff 08-14-2018 11:47 AM

The way your friend "walked you" is definitely more than just "20" horsepower...

chrisridebike8 08-14-2018 12:02 PM


Originally Posted by I am Jeff (Post 7528449)
The way your friend "walked you" is definitely more than just "20" horsepower...

I have seen the graphs they have. 20 is peak hp difference. in the midrange HD is making 40+ whp difference IIRC. again, that's not exact but what I think I remember. regardless, it was pretty healthy.

deanmc 08-14-2018 03:00 PM


Originally Posted by skratch77 (Post 7527983)
You got walked! I would run pro drys and cut out the second cats and run 100 oct and load up the race map oetuning gave you.

I didn't get the handheld, just a flash tune so no race map, unfortunately. Updated the OP with list of mods.


Originally Posted by SatelliteMan (Post 7528085)
Love HD. The pops are insane and the power gains are the real deal. I'd prefer to keep them a secret but perhaps it's too late :) !

I've heard nothing but good things about HD! Thanks for your input.


Originally Posted by Savage-wp (Post 7528437)
Is HD a canned tune, or is it a custom Dyno tune. You can't beat a custom tune

You're right, the HD tune is a dyno tune, his car is really dialed in.


Originally Posted by I am Jeff (Post 7528449)
The way your friend "walked you" is definitely more than just "20" horsepower...

Graphs show 20 peak whp, but midrange and down low consistently making huge gains. I've updated the OP with list of mods. Weird thing is we were dead even from a dig.


Originally Posted by chrisridebike8 (Post 7528462)
I have seen the graphs they have. 20 is peak hp difference. in the midrange HD is making 40+ whp difference IIRC. again, that's not exact but what I think I remember. regardless, it was pretty healthy.

You nailed it, it's the consistent hp and tq difference throughout the entire range. Going to install filters and run 100 oct and see if there's a difference.

eazy-e90 08-14-2018 06:30 PM

20 more whp 91 oct vs. 100 oct?

Also, would like to see both cars running the same octane to see where they compare. OP if you don't have a 100 oct. map from OE then don't waste your time because it's not going to do much unless you are tuned for it.

A custom tune will always be better than a canned if the tuner knows what he/she is doing.

BLKROKT 08-14-2018 07:50 PM

Betweeen the filters, 2nd cat delete and 100oct tune, those alone could account for the beating you took in the video above.

I’m not at all convinced that the HD tune is the primary difference-maker here. 2nd cat delete by itself is worth ~20whp IIRC.

nardobenz 08-14-2018 09:49 PM


Originally Posted by BLKROKT (Post 7528949)
Betweeen the filters, 2nd cat delete and 100oct tune, those alone could account for the beating you took in the video above.

Iím not at all convinced that the HD tune is the primary difference-maker here. 2nd cat delete by itself is worth ~20whp IIRC.

I'm not so sure about the secondary cat delete actually adding any power. I did a before and after secondary cat delete dyno and didn't see any gains. Purely sound.

AMGonFire 08-14-2018 10:07 PM

Are you kidding? 91 octane vs 100 octane. Thatís the difference right there. These cars love higher octane.

nardobenz 08-14-2018 10:08 PM


Originally Posted by AMGonFire (Post 7529032)
Are you kidding? 91 octane vs 100 octane. Thatís the difference right there. These cars love higher octane.

I agree. Plus HD tuning is the sh*t hahah

AMGonFire 08-14-2018 11:32 PM


Originally Posted by nardobenz (Post 7529033)
I agree. Plus HD tuning is the sh*t hahah

i donít know about that. However if itís a custom tune on top of it vs an ots tune thatís another big one.

SatelliteMan 08-15-2018 01:23 AM

They have both the flash tune and a custom dyno tune. 10-20 whp difference of gains depending on how healthy your car is and relative mods.

kimeran 08-15-2018 03:47 AM


Originally Posted by BLKROKT (Post 7528949)
Betweeen the filters, 2nd cat delete and 100oct tune, those alone could account for the beating you took in the video above.

Iím not at all convinced that the HD tune is the primary difference-maker here. 2nd cat delete by itself is worth ~20whp IIRC.

I don't think there are any gains with 2nd cat delete.
I did mine, and didn't feel or see a difference in dyno results or trap speeds.

I definitely think you need to run the correct fuel, as well as tune your car for it and run again.
Compare apples with apples.

jptaylor 08-15-2018 07:00 AM


Originally Posted by skratch77 (Post 7527983)
You got walked! I would run pro drys and cut out the second cats and run 100 oct and load up the race map oetuning gave you.

...and in reference to this above(no flame Skratch)

i run the aFe pro dry filters with charcoal removed like most everyone else
....BUT....
when BIP was tuning my car on the dyno previously the shop owner stated that the ROW boxes did indeed matter but that the filters made zero difference whatsoever....next time i went by i actually took my OE paper filters with me and sure enough when i ran it back to back they were within 2hp of each other(and that was with the aFe filters in on 1st pull so 2nd pull with paper had more heat soak). A really dialed in tune does make a huge difference but im going to have to give most of this credit to the octane difference as well.

And are you guys really running 91oct???? i have never run less than 93 in mine but then again most suppliers where i live only have 87,89,93

skratch77 08-15-2018 08:27 AM

I have taken my car to the dyno 4 separate times and every time the car made the most power on the second and third pull.

same at the track. The second and third run would be the best runs.

all the oils get hot and thin and the ECU adapts and gives it all got.

chrisridebike8 08-15-2018 10:51 AM


Originally Posted by jptaylor (Post 7529197)
...and in reference to this above(no flame Skratch)

i run the aFe pro dry filters with charcoal removed like most everyone else
....BUT....
when BIP was tuning my car on the dyno previously the shop owner stated that the ROW boxes did indeed matter but that the filters made zero difference whatsoever....next time i went by i actually took my OE paper filters with me and sure enough when i ran it back to back they were within 2hp of each other(and that was with the aFe filters in on 1st pull so 2nd pull with paper had more heat soak). A really dialed in tune does make a huge difference but im going to have to give most of this credit to the octane difference as well.

And are you guys really running 91oct???? i have never run less than 93 in mine but then again most suppliers where i live only have 87,89,93

Itís California. We donít have greater than 91 at the pump. There are some places with 100 but itís about CA worrying that 93 will not be completely burned and will increase emissions.

jptaylor 08-15-2018 10:56 AM


Originally Posted by skratch77 (Post 7529230)
I have taken my car to the dyno 4 separate times and every time the car made the most power on the second and third pull.

same at the track. The second and third run would be the best runs.

all the oils get hot and thin and the ECU adapts and gives it all got.

may be geographical then as my car is never cool when i get to the dyno....the nearest one to me that i use is 170mi so when i get there the fluids are already plenty hot, loose and all "fluidy". Given these circumstances my 1st pull has always been my strongest(unless of course we tuned after 1st pull). But either way 2whp variable from pull to pull i am almost certain would qualify as acceptable differential. Pro drys in mine and they will stay but what they told then showed me was that i wasted my money.

jptaylor 08-15-2018 11:00 AM


Originally Posted by chrisridebike8 (Post 7529347)


Itís California. We donít have greater than 91 at the pump. There are some places with 100 but itís about CA worrying that 93 will not be completely burned and will increase emissions.


man that is cRaZy!!!!! there are stations here that sell everything from 87 to 104 and as far as emissions are concerned i could literally run on baby seal blood and stripper glitter and no one would ever even know, much less say anything.

INS1GNIA 08-15-2018 11:41 AM


Originally Posted by jptaylor (Post 7529359)
i could literally run on baby seal blood and stripper glitter and no one would ever even know, much less say anything.

I would love to see the backfire/pops from that mix of awesomeness.

jptaylor 08-15-2018 11:47 AM


Originally Posted by INS1GNIA (Post 7529394)
I would love to see the backfire/pops from that mix of awesomeness.

VERY closely resembles the phenomena when unicorns and clowns orgasm simultaneously.....it really is quite magical

chrisridebike8 08-15-2018 01:08 PM


Originally Posted by INS1GNIA (Post 7529394)
I would love to see the backfire/pops from that mix of awesomeness.

the exhaust would smell like single moms and broken dreams.

jptaylor 08-15-2018 01:40 PM


Originally Posted by chrisridebike8 (Post 7529475)
the exhaust would smell like single moms and broken dreams.

I TOTALLY support single moms!!!!

MBNRG 08-15-2018 05:21 PM


Originally Posted by jptaylor (Post 7529359)
man that is cRaZy!!!!! there are stations here that sell everything from 87 to 104 and as far as emissions are concerned i could literally run on baby seal blood and stripper glitter and no one would ever even know, much less say anything.

LOL!

Yeah, Cali sucks for a lot of things, but there is 100oct available at some pumps, for $9-10 per gallon.
Can mix in a few gallons with the 91oct to achieve 93oct or higher, depending on preference.


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