Problems with timing after camshaft adjuster repair
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2025
Posts: 10
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2011 C63 AMG W204 LSD
Problems with timing after camshaft adjuster repair
Hello,
I am currently working on my C63 to change the camshaft adjusters on all 4 camshafts.
Before that the engine was running fine except the start-up rattle.
Now I got following problem, I can't seem to get the timing right:
I turned the engine to 40degree after OT, the timing plate on the rear would only fit on the right bank not the left.
So I decided to redo the timing on both banks to properly fit 40 degrees after OT.
After the first time building in the camshaft adjusters on the right bank the timing tool wouldn't fit on 40 after OT anymore, it only fits slightly before 40 after OT.
Therefore I redid it (changed bolts again), removed the camshaft adjusters and turned the camshafts carefully with a wrench so I can fit the timing tool in the back and the front (the one that goes on top).
Reassembled the adjusters.
Then I moved on to the next bank, did the same thing (moving camshaft so rear tool would fit) and assembled the camshaft adjuster by using all timing tools.
Now when I turn the engine 2 times, the timing on both banks is off again. Right bank is slightly before 40 after OT, left bank is (even more) after 40 degrees after OT.
I only used 1 set of timing tools the whole time.
What did I possibly do wrong?
The rear timing tool (plate) was always hard to remove after building in the camshaft adjusters.
Thanks for your reply.
I am not far from surrendering and taking the car to a shop to get the timing fixed.
I am currently working on my C63 to change the camshaft adjusters on all 4 camshafts.
Before that the engine was running fine except the start-up rattle.
Now I got following problem, I can't seem to get the timing right:
I turned the engine to 40degree after OT, the timing plate on the rear would only fit on the right bank not the left.
So I decided to redo the timing on both banks to properly fit 40 degrees after OT.
After the first time building in the camshaft adjusters on the right bank the timing tool wouldn't fit on 40 after OT anymore, it only fits slightly before 40 after OT.
Therefore I redid it (changed bolts again), removed the camshaft adjusters and turned the camshafts carefully with a wrench so I can fit the timing tool in the back and the front (the one that goes on top).
Reassembled the adjusters.
Then I moved on to the next bank, did the same thing (moving camshaft so rear tool would fit) and assembled the camshaft adjuster by using all timing tools.
Now when I turn the engine 2 times, the timing on both banks is off again. Right bank is slightly before 40 after OT, left bank is (even more) after 40 degrees after OT.
I only used 1 set of timing tools the whole time.
What did I possibly do wrong?
The rear timing tool (plate) was always hard to remove after building in the camshaft adjusters.
Thanks for your reply.
I am not far from surrendering and taking the car to a shop to get the timing fixed.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,438
Likes: 388
From: Relocated
2010 Irridium Silver MB C63 AMG Sedan
Unfortunately you MUST time both sides/banks at the same time. This is to ensure proper synchronized timing. You need 2 timing tool kits. No way around this. Secure the back bar into the cam shaft circular grooves on both sides. You need to be at 40 center but you can still slightly move the crank left and right just a tad bit to get them aligned. Once the rears are aligned, place your front cam shaft bracket. you must have the Crank at 40 center. Once you have BOTH sides in time. you can then install your phaser Gears on one at a time. Make sure you use the phaser tool to unload the spring tension so the gear teeth are aligned straight to slide onto the main chain gear.
Sorry I know its a pain....we have all been there. Once you do it a few times you can apply to be a master engine builder at AMG
Sorry I know its a pain....we have all been there. Once you do it a few times you can apply to be a master engine builder at AMG
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,351
Likes: 1,677
From: Kitchener, ON
2010 C63 AMG
You can time one side and if the other is out of sync (as in, you can't fit the bar on the back) you can do that one after. The first side isn't going to drift. If it does from manually rotating the engine, you're going to have major problems once you fire it up.
If you time one bank and the other is out of time. Odds are you just need to put a wrench on each cam to advance them slightly so the bar fits on the back.
You only need 2 tools if you plan on taking all 4 adjusters off at the same time.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,305
Likes: 381
From: Texas
10 C six trizzle
Just going to be the odd man out on this. I've timed atleast 30 of these motors. Be it replace head bolts, cams, lifters, adjusters etc... I've never needed nor used 2 kits to do it. I can't tell you what you did wrong or the other dozens that have similar posts to this. It could very well just be the tool kit you have is crap and you did everything correctly, or you did something wrong and it's your fault. There is no way of knowing. Sorry.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2025
Posts: 10
Likes: 1
2011 C63 AMG W204 LSD
Problems with Titanium bolts 63 Motorsport
Hello all,
thanks for the reply. I got a second timing tool and got the timing right now (after several times fastening and turning engine.
Now I have another weird problem.
Ive used the titanium camshaft bolts from 63 motorsport: https://www.63motorsports.com/afterm...camshaft-bolts
After loosening the screw, I got problems with a squeaking noise upon retightening (starting at around 40NM) and its getting really hard to keep rotating.
Ive checked the thread, cleaned it and chased it. Thread of titanium bolt also looks good.
The Old OEM bolts (TTY) still go in well without issues.
Here is a video:
Do I have to use an Anti-Seize when tightening these down?
On 63 Motorsports homepage there is no instruction to do so.
Thanks
thanks for the reply. I got a second timing tool and got the timing right now (after several times fastening and turning engine.
Now I have another weird problem.
Ive used the titanium camshaft bolts from 63 motorsport: https://www.63motorsports.com/afterm...camshaft-bolts
After loosening the screw, I got problems with a squeaking noise upon retightening (starting at around 40NM) and its getting really hard to keep rotating.
Ive checked the thread, cleaned it and chased it. Thread of titanium bolt also looks good.
The Old OEM bolts (TTY) still go in well without issues.
Here is a video:
Do I have to use an Anti-Seize when tightening these down?
On 63 Motorsports homepage there is no instruction to do so.
Thanks
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 473
Likes: 241
From: New Hampshire
ML 63 AMG
Originally Posted by Leopeo;[url=tel:9155224
9155224[/url]]Hello all,
thanks for the reply. I got a second timing tool and got the timing right now (after several times fastening and turning engine.
Now I have another weird problem.
Ive used the titanium camshaft bolts from 63 motorsport: https://www.63motorsports.com/afterm...camshaft-bolts
After loosening the screw, I got problems with a squeaking noise upon retightening (starting at around 40NM) and its getting really hard to keep rotating.
Ive checked the thread, cleaned it and chased it. Thread of titanium bolt also looks good.
The Old OEM bolts (TTY) still go in well without issues.
Here is a video: https://youtube.com/shorts/xMt7os50XcY?feature=share
Do I have to use an Anti-Seize when tightening these down?
On 63 Motorsports homepage there is no instruction to do so.
Thanks
thanks for the reply. I got a second timing tool and got the timing right now (after several times fastening and turning engine.
Now I have another weird problem.
Ive used the titanium camshaft bolts from 63 motorsport: https://www.63motorsports.com/afterm...camshaft-bolts
After loosening the screw, I got problems with a squeaking noise upon retightening (starting at around 40NM) and its getting really hard to keep rotating.
Ive checked the thread, cleaned it and chased it. Thread of titanium bolt also looks good.
The Old OEM bolts (TTY) still go in well without issues.
Here is a video: https://youtube.com/shorts/xMt7os50XcY?feature=share
Do I have to use an Anti-Seize when tightening these down?
On 63 Motorsports homepage there is no instruction to do so.
Thanks
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,438
Likes: 388
From: Relocated
2010 Irridium Silver MB C63 AMG Sedan
Just for clarification: If you open your motor, mess with the timing on one side and put everything back together, even if you did it by timing the one side correctly, and you get timing codes, then timing both sides to each at the same time is sort of your safe home button option. It's interesting to hear that people have and can time only one side and have everything in time when they put the top end back together. My experience has been that these motors are so finicky and precise that its a good idea to prevent valve damage or chain damage and time both sides, essentially starting at zero to rule out timing issues.
The giant phaser bolt is one time use and is torqued in at 40 ncm then a 90 degree turn to keep that sucker in by stretching it. + 5-10 ncm by mistake will not affect it. Tasos went to town on those phaser bolts and it took a ton of torque to snap it.
I would only possibly....posibly suggest thread lock on cam bridge bolts as there make their way loose...
The giant phaser bolt is one time use and is torqued in at 40 ncm then a 90 degree turn to keep that sucker in by stretching it. + 5-10 ncm by mistake will not affect it. Tasos went to town on those phaser bolts and it took a ton of torque to snap it.
I would only possibly....posibly suggest thread lock on cam bridge bolts as there make their way loose...
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Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2025
Posts: 10
Likes: 1
2011 C63 AMG W204 LSD
Dear all,
I went back to use the OEM tty bolts and managed to put everything together and get the timing right on both banks.
After putting everything back together the engine was running fine. No more startup rattle.
I did a testdrive, did the relearn procedure and was very happy.
However....
After changing the oil and adding Liqui Moly Ceratec, the car has a start-up rattle again.
It only lasts for a second or less and must have to do with oil pressure, as starting the engine twice in a row the rattle is not existend.
Once the car sits for ~30Minutes the rattle comes back during start-up.
I checked with a diagnostic tool, no faults. Car runs great and very calm besides the start-up rattle that came back.
Any idea what this could be?
Is there a chance the timing chain tensioner has an issue and loses oil pressure, which leads to this rattling?
Thanks
Leo
I went back to use the OEM tty bolts and managed to put everything together and get the timing right on both banks.
After putting everything back together the engine was running fine. No more startup rattle.
I did a testdrive, did the relearn procedure and was very happy.
However....
After changing the oil and adding Liqui Moly Ceratec, the car has a start-up rattle again.
It only lasts for a second or less and must have to do with oil pressure, as starting the engine twice in a row the rattle is not existend.
Once the car sits for ~30Minutes the rattle comes back during start-up.
I checked with a diagnostic tool, no faults. Car runs great and very calm besides the start-up rattle that came back.
Any idea what this could be?
Is there a chance the timing chain tensioner has an issue and loses oil pressure, which leads to this rattling?
Thanks
Leo
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Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2025
Posts: 10
Likes: 1
2011 C63 AMG W204 LSD
I checked the oil filter today, as I expect it to have something to do with the performed oil change.
I noticed this movement in the center stick of the oil filter housing.
Is this normal or could it lead to oil flowing out of the filter?
I noticed this movement in the center stick of the oil filter housing.
Is this normal or could it lead to oil flowing out of the filter?
