-=Hot|Ice=-

Not getting a DCT.

CarHopper

I've read a lot of your posts and you seem to enjoy getting people riled up huh? There are a handful of bmw's worth having. For example, a 135i. You really can't find a better bang for your buck particularly in the used car market. I used to have one that I picked up for 29k with 25k miles on it, no accidents, perfectly clean. Slapped a jb4 and downpipes +e85 on it for a wallet busting $1k and I had a car that would keep up with pretty much anything on the road and walk away from most. You really couldn't find something for 30k total that would do the same. Also, uh how about an M3 with a DCT that even you desire so very much? Clearly you have a mindset towards knowing more about track days than anyone else so I figured you'd favor a car that an get around a track quicker than the c63? Then you have an e60 m5. Sure, the tranny is less than desirable but that v10 just screams and is a blast to drive. I won't go into how comfortable the 7 series have always been, how an x5m has a great time showing little sports cars it's tail lights, and you also have the f10 m5.

I'm not trying to be confrontational here, but you are so quick to dismiss such great cars and my guess is because they have the label "bmw" and you are just that type of person who will be brand loyal to the day you die.

I won't even get into Audi, particularly the RS7 which is just insane.

As for the new C63, if I absolutely had to put money on it right now it is not getting AWD or a DCT. I'm fairly confident no DCT but they may surprise us with a C63S model so I wont speculate.

Why don't you just find yourself a lightly used E63S and call it a day? They are already coming down in price and by the time the C comes out I'm sure you could find some that run the same price as a used E.

Settle down a bit and try not to always be in a forum bash mode and people will take your opinions more seriously. I have a feeling I know what type of response is coming though..

TT C6

That's the rumor.
If true, it's a shame.
AMG needs to pull their head out of their *** and make the DCT from the SLS the only transmission in the C63.
When a lowly VW gets a DCT, it's pathetic that the C63 does not.

TT C6

Arcoril

Just don't acknowledge him. He loves doing this and thrives on the attention.

TT C6

Love doing what?
You have a problem with me expressing my educated opinion based on my experience?
Get over yourself. Mr. C300 "sport". LOL

Maybe you should talk to PurpleleHeart about buying one of his real cars when he's done with them. RS4 and 911 Turbo are actually respectable cars.

kimeran

Dude, I actually respected what you say until now.... I don't think there is any need to pick on another man's car because its not as good as yours

1st amg

Here we go again, TT C6, why on earth would you insult someone who "only" drives a C300? That type of humiliation is served best by a moron like yourself, you are welcome to bashing MB for their lack of DCT tranny, but to insult someone on what they can afford is simply disgusting. And don't tell me to settle down...I can bet that in real life which is not behind your computer, you have little friends, people you work with don't like your pompous attitude and your neighbors probably can't stand you or what you are made of. You are a someone that no one can tolerate in real life because everything that comes out of your mouth is of an elitist attitude. In other words you are a loner. The C63 is not getting a DCT so get lost.

Arcoril

Relax, folks. He does this in every thread. Just ignore him and move on.

Also, the C300 is a great DD! I got it 5 years ago when I was just starting out in my career and it was my first introduction to the brand. I've done pretty well since then and I'm absolutely in the market for a W205 C63 or F80 M3 now. Progress and hard work!

TT C6

You guys make me laugh.
Some kid who has no experience with any respectable car tries to talk smack about me in a public thread, and then you personally attack me with your hypocrisy.
The irony would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

Regardless, the next C63 is going to be a world beater.
Let's just hope it launches with the world class drivetrain it deserves: AWD and DCT.

-=Hot|Ice=-

I had read somewhere that Merc says there's not enough demand for it. The MCT is pretty darn quick. Whatever they implement, there better not be any lag when you hit the paddle and the car shifts, as they've had plenty of time to fix it, and it's just a software tuning issue.

TT C6

I know that the MCT is better than a torque converter transmission, but I was NOT impressed when driving a MCT.
If the MCT was better than DCT, AMG would have used MCT for the SLS.

There is a reason DCT is in every supercar in 2014.
There is NO reason that the C63 shouldn't get a DCT when ENTRY LEVEL economy cars are offering DCT in 2014......like the S4 and M3 have been doing since 2007/2008.

1st amg

I think the issue here about why the C63 doesn't get a DCT such as what is in the SLS, is cost. The SLS DCT tranny is the Getrag transmission which is also supplied to a variety of Ferrari models. MB doesn't have they're in house DCT so my educated guess is this. I know that a SLS at my home dealership recently had the DCT transmission replaced and I saw the warranty invoice of $21,000 . So, I don't think the C63 is getting this tranny. And TT C6, I appologize to you for the strong armed attack, I just have a sweet spot for certain things that set me off.

-=Hot|Ice=-

Who supplies the DCT's for BMW's M Division? Merc doesn't like outsourcing, I think I've started to understand that. Lets hope the 9 speed box is better then the 7 speed. ZF's 8 speed that's in almost everything right now is pretty darn good. I had a DCT in my M, and it was good, but not great. There was considerable lag between paddle click and gear change, even after my BPM tune, but to a much lesser extent.

Regardless, a DCT means nothing and is not make or break. Look at what Chevy did with a transmission on the new Z06, It is a regular automatic transmission with torque converter but it allegedly shifts faster then a PDK transmission, yet it's going livable around town with no extra jerking.

CarHopper

Wait, what? What year M and what M? If you're talking about a 2013 m3 you're crazy if you think that is slow, especially compared to the MCT in the current C63's. I would tell my C63 to shift, make a few phone calls, check my emails, rub one out, and then it would shift. The M is lightning compared to that.

-=Hot|Ice=-

It wasn't bad to that extent, the point I was trying to make was that even M3's have a tiny bit of lag, and I think Mercedes has the ability to change that and make it just as fast with a couple small tweaks.

Another benefit to the MCT is that it will be able to handle the majority of the torque thrown at it when tuners get their hands on the ECU.

CarHopper

Yea for sure the weak point on the DCT is the ability to handle torque. I took the "considerable lag" part as it was very laggy. The DCT is the M is seriously so much faster than the C63. Even my 1 series was crazy fast in terms of telling it to shift and then it shifting. I didn't have to predict when I wanted to shift unlike in the C.

Every car has a tiny bit of lag. But that M3 shifts on average in 80ms and as fast as 30ms +/- 5ms. For reference, the DCT in the SLS is at 100ms. Also, the new 991 PDK tranny supposedly shifts in 40ms which is just crazy.

-=Hot|Ice=-

No human will be able to feel the difference of 20ms.

I think the MCT can also shift in 100ms in manual mode?

CarHopper

I agree that a person won't be able to tell a difference, but time slips will.

Maybe the act of the shift itself but between the time the command is given to shift until the shift is completed on the C is definitely more than 1/10th of a second.

TT C6

Well, thanks for that, I guess.
But, yes, your rant was a personal attack and kinda over the top.
The point wasn't what the kid could afford, it was the fact that the kid with no real experience or who never owned a real car was personally attacking an experienced member in a public forum.
But, it's all good.

Warranty invoice pricing is just that. Numbers on a paper.
Although I agree the SLS DCT is an expensive transmission, the GTR DCT sells to the PUBLIC with a $11,000 RETAIL price with NO CORE CHARGE, and we all know that DCT is outsourced, and what it's capable of in a 3,900lb car.

So, with all due respect, I think AMG can offer a DCT in the C63, and keep the current MSRP. Especially since the S4 has been running a DCT since 2008 with a $50k MSRP and has proven to be reliable in tuned S4's running 11 second 1/4 miles.

TT C6

Anyone who thinks the benefits of DCT are limited to just reduced upshift times at wide open throttle, they don't know how these transmissions work, let along have any seat time with modern DCT equipped sports cars.

TT C6

With all due respect, I keep hearing the same pathetic "DCT isn't reliable/affordable" lies and excuses in the Corvette community of which I have been an active owner/member for almost 20 years.
Cars like the GTR, SLS, 911 Turbo, etc (and even the Veyron) all prove that DCT is reliable and within budget....especially in 2014.

Manufacturers need to stop with the BS lies and excuses and put modern drivetrains (AWD and DCT) in daily driven performance cars.

Sure, I love RWD coupes with stickshift for sunny weekends and trackdays.....but those cars are 3,000lb-ish sports coupes and not luxury sports sedan/coupes that are daily driven and have $60k+++ pricetags.


As an admitted Corvette owner and fan boy, and with all due respect, only a completely uneducated idiot would believe this utter BS from GM.
GM's complete failure to offer a modern drivetrain (DCT and AWD) in the Corvette, or even the 2016 V-series cars, is the only reason I will be buying a German car for my next daily driver.

TT C6

VERY true.
And, VERY funny.

Thanks for another HONEST assessment from another member who has actually DRIVEN these cars.

-=Hot|Ice=-

98% of these cars won't see any type of track so time-slips really don't matter. Would love a DCT, but I can see why Mercedes may have a tough time making a business case for it.

The SLS AMG also suffered from the same lag when clicking the paddle and the time it took to actually shift. They seem to have fixed it in the Black Series.

CarHopper

Never said anything about the reliability/affordability. Just said the first weak link eventually would be the ability to take the power/tq. I believe a member floating around here has ~730whp in an SLS with the DCT. That is more than enough for me and most others. Some people who want quad digits have to go to a built tranny anyway so I guess it doesn't really matter all that much.

Before picking up my 911 (which was the deal of a lifetime) I was looking at Cts-v's and z06's/zr1's to mess around with. I'd have to come up higher in price and go from 2 cars to 1 if I wanted to do that right and it snows quite a bit where I live so I opted out of that.

I don't think ALL performance cars need AWD nor benefit though. Daily driven performance car? Eh, maybe. I can get on board with at least having them as options for owners. However, I don't call the shots. Surprise Surprise.