2015 C63 & C63S DEALER ORDERING GUIDE RELEASED TODAY
12-05-2014, 08:49 PM
#26
MBWorld Fanatic!
I'm 24 that's too much for me lol
You getting the s or normal?
12-05-2014, 09:39 PM
#29
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GLk
Yup, did not like the car at all my for my use, The car is to over rated.
It is meant for a guy who wants to drive it everyday and give it here and there on the streets. But the DCT was not the best thing for Daily Use. And was not the best Car for track use. The DCT for daily use had lot of delay.(I don't know whats the Big deal with people obsessed with DCT over MCT) I would take the MCT any day. The car had turbo lag could be due to DCT. Hated the Steering wheel feel, No feed back at all. On the track through the tight S's it was sloppy, was because the M adaptive suspension was not bast enough to response to the changes. And the Seats are so bad because not enough lateral grip, Which makes you hold on to the steering wheel harder to keep you in place, by doing so you can not hit all your racing lines. For me to get the car to my liking I would had to spend another $20k on top.
Instead traded it in to get The C63s. Which give me the Better Racing Seats, Better Brakes, Better Engine Response ( I hope) Better Steering rack.( I drove the C400 and the steering rack is so much better) Much Nicer Interior. And I get 2 Sound Systems with the CAR
It is meant for a guy who wants to drive it everyday and give it here and there on the streets. But the DCT was not the best thing for Daily Use. And was not the best Car for track use. The DCT for daily use had lot of delay.(I don't know whats the Big deal with people obsessed with DCT over MCT) I would take the MCT any day. The car had turbo lag could be due to DCT. Hated the Steering wheel feel, No feed back at all. On the track through the tight S's it was sloppy, was because the M adaptive suspension was not bast enough to response to the changes. And the Seats are so bad because not enough lateral grip, Which makes you hold on to the steering wheel harder to keep you in place, by doing so you can not hit all your racing lines. For me to get the car to my liking I would had to spend another $20k on top.
Instead traded it in to get The C63s. Which give me the Better Racing Seats, Better Brakes, Better Engine Response ( I hope) Better Steering rack.( I drove the C400 and the steering rack is so much better) Much Nicer Interior. And I get 2 Sound Systems with the CAR
12-05-2014, 09:47 PM
#30
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GLk
I think The Edition one is Going to be only in the S. But I would only Buy the S. The car need a electronic diff. The car has the tendency to understeer In the tight turns, Which you can correct by throttling, making the rear kick out, which makes you lose more time. Plus you get The Better Brakes. Engine mounts. Fun Stuff for the Track.
12-05-2014, 10:50 PM
#31
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,412
Received 1,886 Likes
on
1,323 Posts
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
This will be a sweet sweet car
12-06-2014, 10:17 AM
#32
MBWorld Fanatic!
12-06-2014, 10:33 AM
#33
MBWorld Fanatic!
12-06-2014, 11:11 AM
#34
MBWorld Fanatic!
I'm pretty effing excited right now lol my sales lady said she sent the stuff to mb eu and is waiting for a built configuration.
12-06-2014, 04:17 PM
#36
MBWorld Fanatic!
I think The Edition one is Going to be only in the S. But I would only Buy the S. The car need a electronic diff. The car has the tendency to understeer In the tight turns, Which you can correct by throttling, making the rear kick out, which makes you lose more time. Plus you get The Better Brakes. Engine mounts. Fun Stuff for the Track.
Have u driven the car? How do u know it understeers?
12-06-2014, 07:14 PM
#37
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GLk
The Car without the mechanical differential would do those better but then u lose out on Lot of other benefits. Like Launching a car( One wheel spin more then other) Which would also lead to poor turn in on corner exists, Or under Braking ( the car wont be stable because the rear wheel are not locked, making the car unstable).
So to make the Best of both worlds, you get a Electronic Limited Slip Differential. It will release where it needs to (giving you better turn in because there is no restriction on the rotation of the rear wheel) and lock where it needs to (Giving you better traction and stability).
12-06-2014, 08:40 PM
#38
A mechanical lsd will not turn both wheels the same speed in s corner
It still allows a differential in speed
It will try to apportion torque proportional to corf of friction or traction/grip
But it's characteristics iare fixed
An electronic one can be controlled or manipulated to apportion more to the outside wheel to help rotate the car
Torque vectoring
The can use steering angle, tcs, yaw/pitch/g sensors, etc as inputs
It still allows a differential in speed
It will try to apportion torque proportional to corf of friction or traction/grip
But it's characteristics iare fixed
An electronic one can be controlled or manipulated to apportion more to the outside wheel to help rotate the car
Torque vectoring
The can use steering angle, tcs, yaw/pitch/g sensors, etc as inputs
Last edited by Ingenieur; 12-06-2014 at 08:44 PM.
12-06-2014, 09:04 PM
#39
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GLk
A mechanical lsd will not turn both wheels the same speed in s corner
It still allows a differential in speed
It will try to apportion torque proportional to corf of friction or traction/grip
But it's characteristics iare fixed
An electronic one can be controlled or manipulated to apportion more to the outside wheel to help rotate the car
Torque vectoring
The can use steering angle, tcs, yaw/pitch/g sensors, etc as inputs
It still allows a differential in speed
It will try to apportion torque proportional to corf of friction or traction/grip
But it's characteristics iare fixed
An electronic one can be controlled or manipulated to apportion more to the outside wheel to help rotate the car
Torque vectoring
The can use steering angle, tcs, yaw/pitch/g sensors, etc as inputs
A locking differential may provide increased traction compared to a standard, or "open" differential by restricting each of the two wheels on an axle to the same rotational speed without regard to available traction or differences in resistance seen at each wheel. A locking differential is designed to overcome the chief limitation of a standard open differential by essentially "locking" both wheels on an axle together as if on a common shaft. This forces both wheels to turn in unison, regardless of the traction (or lack thereof) available to either wheel individually. When the differential is unlocked (open differential), it allows each wheel to rotate at different speeds (such as when negotiating a turn), thus avoiding tire scuffing. An open (or unlocked) differential always provides the same torque (rotational force) to each of the two wheels, on that axle. So although the wheels can rotate at different speeds, they apply the same rotational force, even if one is entirely stationary, and the other spinning.
In automotive engineering the electronic differential is a form of differential, which provides the required torque for each driving wheel and allows different wheel speeds. It is used in place of the mechanical differential in multi-drive systems. When cornering, the inner and outer wheels rotate at different speeds, because the inner wheels describe a smaller turning radius. The electronic differential uses the steering wheel command signal and the motor speed signals to control the power to each wheel so that all wheels are supplied with the torque they need.
12-07-2014, 09:57 AM
#40
A locking differential may provide increased traction compared to a standard, or "open" differential by restricting each of the two wheels on an axle to the same rotational speed without regard to available traction or differences in resistance seen at each wheel. A locking differential is designed to overcome the chief limitation of a standard open differential by essentially "locking" both wheels on an axle together as if on a common shaft. This forces both wheels to turn in unison, regardless of the traction (or lack thereof) available to either wheel individually. When the differential is unlocked (open differential), it allows each wheel to rotate at different speeds (such as when negotiating a turn), thus avoiding tire scuffing. An open (or unlocked) differential always provides the same torque (rotational force) to each of the two wheels, on that axle. So although the wheels can rotate at different speeds, they apply the same rotational force, even if one is entirely stationary, and the other spinning.
In automotive engineering the electronic differential is a form of differential, which provides the required torque for each driving wheel and allows different wheel speeds. It is used in place of the mechanical differential in multi-drive systems. When cornering, the inner and outer wheels rotate at different speeds, because the inner wheels describe a smaller turning radius. The electronic differential uses the steering wheel command signal and the motor speed signals to control the power to each wheel so that all wheels are supplied with the torque they need.
In automotive engineering the electronic differential is a form of differential, which provides the required torque for each driving wheel and allows different wheel speeds. It is used in place of the mechanical differential in multi-drive systems. When cornering, the inner and outer wheels rotate at different speeds, because the inner wheels describe a smaller turning radius. The electronic differential uses the steering wheel command signal and the motor speed signals to control the power to each wheel so that all wheels are supplied with the torque they need.
It does not lock them
There is a clutch or gearing that allows slip
This allows them to rotate at different speeds
If they were rigidly locked the car would be undrivable and destroy the tires and driveline
Off road vehicles do have means to lock them but it is a manual operation for slow travel over obstacles
Last edited by Ingenieur; 12-07-2014 at 09:59 AM.
12-07-2014, 10:03 AM
#41
A limited-slip differential (LSD) is a type of automotive differential gear arrangement that allows for some difference in angular velocity of the output shafts, but imposes a mechanical bound on the disparity.
In laymans terms
It allows differential up to a limit then it binds
But it still has a differential even on extremely tight radius
For normal driving not noticable
If one wheel starts to slip due to lower traction it starts to 'lock' so torque is transfered to the wheel with grip
An electronic one uses an actuator to vary the slip based on thebinput variables previously mentioned
Mechanical ones are fixed by spring selection or gearing
In laymans terms
It allows differential up to a limit then it binds
But it still has a differential even on extremely tight radius
For normal driving not noticable
If one wheel starts to slip due to lower traction it starts to 'lock' so torque is transfered to the wheel with grip
An electronic one uses an actuator to vary the slip based on thebinput variables previously mentioned
Mechanical ones are fixed by spring selection or gearing
Last edited by Ingenieur; 12-07-2014 at 10:12 AM.
12-07-2014, 10:23 AM
#42
Assume a track of 5'
Tight turn r=30'
Inside wheel travel per revolution ~ 2 x r x pi x ang vel
Outside ~ 2 x (r+5) x pi x ang vel
2, Pi and vel cancel
Ratio = r+5 / r
35/30 = 1.17 or 17% slip
Say a wider radius like a 200' skid pad
Slip = 205/200 or 3%
Set the diff up so allowable slip up to 20%
So start to 'lock' or actually limit slip proportionally when diff speed exceeds 20%
Below that act like an open diff
Tight turn r=30'
Inside wheel travel per revolution ~ 2 x r x pi x ang vel
Outside ~ 2 x (r+5) x pi x ang vel
2, Pi and vel cancel
Ratio = r+5 / r
35/30 = 1.17 or 17% slip
Say a wider radius like a 200' skid pad
Slip = 205/200 or 3%
Set the diff up so allowable slip up to 20%
So start to 'lock' or actually limit slip proportionally when diff speed exceeds 20%
Below that act like an open diff
Last edited by Ingenieur; 12-07-2014 at 10:26 AM.
12-07-2014, 10:47 AM
#43
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GLk
Assume a track of 5'
Tight turn r=30'
Inside wheel travel per revolution ~ 2 x r x pi x ang vel
Outside ~ 2 x (r+5) x pi x ang vel
2, Pi and vel cancel
Ratio = r+5 / r
35/30 = 1.17 or 17% slip
Say a wider radius like a 200' skid pad
Slip = 205/200 or 3%
Set the diff up so allowable slip up to 20%
So start to 'lock' or actually limit slip proportionally when diff speed exceeds 20%
Below that act like an open diff
Tight turn r=30'
Inside wheel travel per revolution ~ 2 x r x pi x ang vel
Outside ~ 2 x (r+5) x pi x ang vel
2, Pi and vel cancel
Ratio = r+5 / r
35/30 = 1.17 or 17% slip
Say a wider radius like a 200' skid pad
Slip = 205/200 or 3%
Set the diff up so allowable slip up to 20%
So start to 'lock' or actually limit slip proportionally when diff speed exceeds 20%
Below that act like an open diff
The pressure plates locking the diff, restricting the wheels to turn in as freely.
Resulting understeer.
12-07-2014, 10:49 AM
#44
MBWorld Fanatic!
Assume a track of 5'
Tight turn r=30'
Inside wheel travel per revolution ~ 2 x r x pi x ang vel
Outside ~ 2 x (r+5) x pi x ang vel
2, Pi and vel cancel
Ratio = r+5 / r
35/30 = 1.17 or 17% slip
Say a wider radius like a 200' skid pad
Slip = 205/200 or 3%
Set the diff up so allowable slip up to 20%
So start to 'lock' or actually limit slip proportionally when diff speed exceeds 20%
Below that act like an open diff
Tight turn r=30'
Inside wheel travel per revolution ~ 2 x r x pi x ang vel
Outside ~ 2 x (r+5) x pi x ang vel
2, Pi and vel cancel
Ratio = r+5 / r
35/30 = 1.17 or 17% slip
Say a wider radius like a 200' skid pad
Slip = 205/200 or 3%
Set the diff up so allowable slip up to 20%
So start to 'lock' or actually limit slip proportionally when diff speed exceeds 20%
Below that act like an open diff
12-07-2014, 10:55 AM
#46
12-07-2014, 11:01 AM
#47
You are applying brake torque (opposite sign to driving torque)
But still a proportional lock not 100%
driver skill and technique will mitigate that
But it is a huge advantage exiting the turn
And without a lsd the only way to reduce spin out of a corner is to reduce throttle, which is slower
The disadvantages can be mitigated, the advantages can't be replicated
12-07-2014, 11:58 AM
#48
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GLk
It may be a small disadvantage when trail braking into a corner
You are applying brake torque (opposite sign to driving torque)
But still a proportional lock not 100%
driver skill and technique will mitigate that
But it is a huge advantage exiting the turn
And without a lsd the only way to reduce spin out of a corner is to reduce throttle, which is slower
The disadvantages can be mitigated, the advantages can't be replicated
You are applying brake torque (opposite sign to driving torque)
But still a proportional lock not 100%
driver skill and technique will mitigate that
But it is a huge advantage exiting the turn
And without a lsd the only way to reduce spin out of a corner is to reduce throttle, which is slower
The disadvantages can be mitigated, the advantages can't be replicated
This topic was about how the C63 has a Understeering Issue,(If you driven one to its limit you would know) And how the electronic diff will help over come some of that, in comparison to their traditional mechanical diff. Which Is a option you Have If you buy C63s or C63.
But you have Gone
This has no relevance to this topic plus no one cares and neither is a option that Mercedes offers on NEW c63 Amg.
On the Other Hand Where Is MY C63 w205. And why I am wasting my time on Here. When I could be Driving
12-07-2014, 01:22 PM
#49
Have you Driven any Cars With different LSD on Tracks or any Auto Cross events? I would Strongly suggest you give it a try. It seems you know a lot when it comes to book Knowledge. But Reading will only give you one side of the story, trying things on the other hand will you give you a completely different perspective.
This topic was about how the C63 has a Understeering Issue,(If you driven one to its limit you would know) And how the electronic diff will help over come some of that, in comparison to their traditional mechanical diff. Which Is a option you Have If you buy C63s or C63.
But you have Gone
This has no relevance to this topic plus no one cares and neither is a option that Mercedes offers on NEW c63 Amg.
On the Other Hand Where Is MY C63 w205. And why I am wasting my time on Here. When I could be Driving
This topic was about how the C63 has a Understeering Issue,(If you driven one to its limit you would know) And how the electronic diff will help over come some of that, in comparison to their traditional mechanical diff. Which Is a option you Have If you buy C63s or C63.
But you have Gone
This has no relevance to this topic plus no one cares and neither is a option that Mercedes offers on NEW c63 Amg.
On the Other Hand Where Is MY C63 w205. And why I am wasting my time on Here. When I could be Driving
Road courses and autocross
Also ice and snow courses, actual racing
Clutch type, gear type, quaife, wavetrac and gleason torsen and viscous
And the Audi torque vectoring
The c63 understeer is induced more by wt dist and tire size differential
And a little thing called inertia which is related to mass
In fact one with a lsd understeers less than one without
Inertia is the resistance of any physical object to any change in its state of motion, including changes to its speed and direction. It is the tendency of objects to keep moving in a straight line at constant velocity. The principle of inertia is one of the fundamental principles of classical physics that are used to describe the motion of objects and how they are affected by applied forces. Inertia comes from the Latin word, iners, meaning idle, sluggish. Inertia is one of the primary manifestations of mass, which is a quantitative property of physical systems. Isaac Newton defined inertia as his first law in his Philosophić Naturalis Principia Mathematica, which states:
Experience and education are not mutually exclusive
In fact education allows you to benefit more from experience, take advantage of it, because you actually understand how things work and based on that extrapolate to scenarios where you have no experience or too much risk attempting to garner experience/data
Most test pilots are engineers for a reason
You said with a lsd the wheels are locked at the same speed in a turn
They are not
You are incorrect
Hop off the high horse and you may learn something
You do not determine the course of discussion
If you do not like it do not participate but do not attempt to stifle others
You seem to be the only one whining, but even if not, it wouldn't matter
Last edited by Ingenieur; 12-07-2014 at 02:13 PM.
12-07-2014, 01:41 PM
#50
Factoid for those who care
An lsd will reduce understeer
When cornering the outer wheel is loaded up and the inner down
The outer has more traction so torque dist will shift to it
This will HELP the car rotate diminishing understeer
The negative is the transfer upsets the car if you increase throttle too much/quickly
Resulting on possibly oversteer depending on the car, and oscillation between the two states resulting in instability
An lsd will reduce understeer
When cornering the outer wheel is loaded up and the inner down
The outer has more traction so torque dist will shift to it
This will HELP the car rotate diminishing understeer
The negative is the transfer upsets the car if you increase throttle too much/quickly
Resulting on possibly oversteer depending on the car, and oscillation between the two states resulting in instability
Last edited by Ingenieur; 12-07-2014 at 01:44 PM.
