Is the new C63 as awesome as the W204?
03-17-2015, 10:19 PM
#26
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Funny how non C63 AMG drivers come into this thread and try to give their opinion regarding which one is better or nicer with out living with any of these two beasts. Owners of the w204 know exactly what they are talking about when they compare it to the w205. It is not a matter of engine, sound or look. It is the passion of driving an 8V naturally aspirated engine with a pure power and brutal attendance on the streets. It a love that w204 AMG owners have carried for a long time now and I believe it is love that can't be replaced easily.
To conclude, if you have never lived and experienced the w204 AMG, then go straight forward for buying the w205. You won't regret it for sure. However, for those who already know what is the w204.. hold strong to your baby.
To conclude, if you have never lived and experienced the w204 AMG, then go straight forward for buying the w205. You won't regret it for sure. However, for those who already know what is the w204.. hold strong to your baby.
Don't know if the above relates to myself, and have mentioned this previously but just so that you know granted I don't own a C63 (and have my own reasons as to why not) but for years I've been driving both the W and C204 C63's on a regular basis road and track including the 507 and have them in my possession for weeks at time, so I know exactly what the 204 series C63 is all about in every way.
I also have access to the E63's and other AMG models and have extensively driven both A and CLA 45's.
I've also mentioned this before as well, I'm hoping the new W/C205 C63 addresses the shortfalls I've found in the 204 series C63, so far it looks very convincing and eagerly look forward to sampling the upcoming C205 C63 with great confidence that one will join my car collection
03-20-2015, 12:07 AM
#27
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C63 AMG 507 Edition
I have no doubt it will be a good car, perhaps even "better" than the W204, but I look at it in the context of the environment its being released in.
Have they really lifted the bar with this car relative to its predecessor and / or its competitors?
The W204 was this fantistic raw animal that dramatically changed the perception of AMG in the marketplace.
The W205 just feels like an incremental improvement.
Consider some of the key shortcomings of the W204:
- Lack of rear wheel traction
- Clunky MCT gearbox
- Rear fender flare too timid
- Overheats too quickly
With 265s in the rear, and more power / torque than the W204, you know rear wheel traction will be a problem. I can't believe they didnt address this.
Still has the MCT. Yes, they have improved this, buts its not the dual clutcher the AMG GT gets. Why not? Again, I dont think they really addressed this issue head on.
Rear fender flares, perhaps a more subjective one, but they really haven't done anyhthing here.
Overheating? Time will tell. You would hope they have fixed this.
So, whilst the W204 will go down as a legend in the context of the cars available at the time, I feel the W205 will be considered a good car, even an incremental improvement on the W204, but not a real standout or game changer.
Have they really lifted the bar with this car relative to its predecessor and / or its competitors?
The W204 was this fantistic raw animal that dramatically changed the perception of AMG in the marketplace.
The W205 just feels like an incremental improvement.
Consider some of the key shortcomings of the W204:
- Lack of rear wheel traction
- Clunky MCT gearbox
- Rear fender flare too timid
- Overheats too quickly
With 265s in the rear, and more power / torque than the W204, you know rear wheel traction will be a problem. I can't believe they didnt address this.
Still has the MCT. Yes, they have improved this, buts its not the dual clutcher the AMG GT gets. Why not? Again, I dont think they really addressed this issue head on.
Rear fender flares, perhaps a more subjective one, but they really haven't done anyhthing here.
Overheating? Time will tell. You would hope they have fixed this.
So, whilst the W204 will go down as a legend in the context of the cars available at the time, I feel the W205 will be considered a good car, even an incremental improvement on the W204, but not a real standout or game changer.
03-21-2015, 08:38 PM
#28
MBWorld Fanatic!
I have no doubt it will be a good car, perhaps even "better" than the W204, but I look at it in the context of the environment its being released in.
Have they really lifted the bar with this car relative to its predecessor and / or its competitors?
The W204 was this fantistic raw animal that dramatically changed the perception of AMG in the marketplace.
The W205 just feels like an incremental improvement.
Consider some of the key shortcomings of the W204:
- Lack of rear wheel traction
- Clunky MCT gearbox
- Rear fender flare too timid
- Overheats too quickly
With 265s in the rear, and more power / torque than the W204, you know rear wheel traction will be a problem. I can't believe they didnt address this.
Still has the MCT. Yes, they have improved this, buts its not the dual clutcher the AMG GT gets. Why not? Again, I dont think they really addressed this issue head on.
Rear fender flares, perhaps a more subjective one, but they really haven't done anyhthing here.
Overheating? Time will tell. You would hope they have fixed this.
So, whilst the W204 will go down as a legend in the context of the cars available at the time, I feel the W205 will be considered a good car, even an incremental improvement on the W204, but not a real standout or game changer.
Have they really lifted the bar with this car relative to its predecessor and / or its competitors?
The W204 was this fantistic raw animal that dramatically changed the perception of AMG in the marketplace.
The W205 just feels like an incremental improvement.
Consider some of the key shortcomings of the W204:
- Lack of rear wheel traction
- Clunky MCT gearbox
- Rear fender flare too timid
- Overheats too quickly
With 265s in the rear, and more power / torque than the W204, you know rear wheel traction will be a problem. I can't believe they didnt address this.
Still has the MCT. Yes, they have improved this, buts its not the dual clutcher the AMG GT gets. Why not? Again, I dont think they really addressed this issue head on.
Rear fender flares, perhaps a more subjective one, but they really haven't done anyhthing here.
Overheating? Time will tell. You would hope they have fixed this.
So, whilst the W204 will go down as a legend in the context of the cars available at the time, I feel the W205 will be considered a good car, even an incremental improvement on the W204, but not a real standout or game changer.
Furthermore, the standard C63 comes with a mechanical LSD and the S model gets the electronically-controlled differential from the AMG GT.
Finally, Benz decided to equip the car with special Michelin Pilot Super Sports.
The result is the following:
In the F80 M3 vs. W205 C63 review, the reviewer said that the C63 absolutely dominated the M3 in terms of traction.
Here's the quote: "As far as grip, traction, and roadholding go, the winner wears a three-pointed star."
"While the BMW almost always lets go first at the rear, the C63 will in all likelihood not let go at all."
And that's the standard C63 that accomplished that grip. I imagine the e-diff in the C63 S is even better.
Last page of the scans in the first post of this thread: https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-c...eply&p=6371770
03-22-2015, 03:51 AM
#29
Re: grip, the tire sizes have gone up in the front and back (as you noted).
Furthermore, the standard C63 comes with a mechanical LSD and the S model gets the electronically-controlled differential from the AMG GT.
Finally, Benz decided to equip the car with special Michelin Pilot Super Sports.
The result is the following:
In the F80 M3 vs. W205 C63 review, the reviewer said that the C63 absolutely dominated the M3 in terms of traction.
Here's the quote: "As far as grip, traction, and roadholding go, the winner wears a three-pointed star."
"While the BMW almost always lets go first at the rear, the C63 will in all likelihood not let go at all."
And that's the standard C63 that accomplished that grip. I imagine the e-diff in the C63 S is even better.
Last page of the scans in the first post of this thread: https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-c...eply&p=6371770
Furthermore, the standard C63 comes with a mechanical LSD and the S model gets the electronically-controlled differential from the AMG GT.
Finally, Benz decided to equip the car with special Michelin Pilot Super Sports.
The result is the following:
In the F80 M3 vs. W205 C63 review, the reviewer said that the C63 absolutely dominated the M3 in terms of traction.
Here's the quote: "As far as grip, traction, and roadholding go, the winner wears a three-pointed star."
"While the BMW almost always lets go first at the rear, the C63 will in all likelihood not let go at all."
And that's the standard C63 that accomplished that grip. I imagine the e-diff in the C63 S is even better.
Last page of the scans in the first post of this thread: https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-c...eply&p=6371770
03-22-2015, 07:04 AM
#30
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C63 AMG 507 Edition
Re: grip, the tire sizes have gone up in the front and back (as you noted).
Furthermore, the standard C63 comes with a mechanical LSD and the S model gets the electronically-controlled differential from the AMG GT.
Finally, Benz decided to equip the car with special Michelin Pilot Super Sports.
Furthermore, the standard C63 comes with a mechanical LSD and the S model gets the electronically-controlled differential from the AMG GT.
Finally, Benz decided to equip the car with special Michelin Pilot Super Sports.
Cayman GT4 has 295 Pilot Sport Cup 2 rears with an LSD and considerably less power / torque. They didn't add that extra rubber for no reason.
AMG GT and GTS get 295 rears also, and they run the same engine as the C63, again, they added this rubber for a reason.
I think they went for 2 things with the 265s on the W205. Fuel economy and less engineering changes to the base C class. Traction came a distant third.
03-22-2015, 10:26 AM
#31
MBWorld Fanatic!
Maybe the reason could have been that the engineers decided that 295 wasn't absolutely necessary?
We all know that cost is also concern when building these cars. I am sure that if the car had worse fuel economy and a higher price tag then there would be members in here whining about that!
And many more would not consider buying a C63 if it was priced much higher than the M3.
The C63 is a far better car than the M3 however they are similarly priced... There is a reason for that!
295s probably gives a marginal increase in traction for this car and thus it was not worth the cost associated.
03-22-2015, 03:40 PM
#32
MBWorld Fanatic!
Car goes from W204 with 255s and plenty of traction issues to 265s with considerable bump in power / torque. PSSs / LSD are great, but they don't weave magic.
Cayman GT4 has 295 Pilot Sport Cup 2 rears with an LSD and considerably less power / torque. They didn't add that extra rubber for no reason.
AMG GT and GTS get 295 rears also, and they run the same engine as the C63, again, they added this rubber for a reason.
I think they went for 2 things with the 265s on the W205. Fuel economy and less engineering changes to the base C class. Traction came a distant third.
Cayman GT4 has 295 Pilot Sport Cup 2 rears with an LSD and considerably less power / torque. They didn't add that extra rubber for no reason.
AMG GT and GTS get 295 rears also, and they run the same engine as the C63, again, they added this rubber for a reason.
I think they went for 2 things with the 265s on the W205. Fuel economy and less engineering changes to the base C class. Traction came a distant third.
I agree that good tires + a proper LSD don't weave magic but did you see the quotes from the review? You omitted them in your quote of my post.
A car's chassis and suspension setup also have an impact on grip. It seems that the W205 has an even better/more dynamic chassis than the LCI W204 C63s. With the W205 we finally get adjustable damping.
03-22-2015, 06:05 PM
#33
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'14 C63 507, '11 C300, '96 Cobra, '91 Mr2
Hi,
As I'm new to AMG vehicles I'm not getting into the 204/205 battle. But what was that at the end of this video, " It's going to make you're ***** tingle". I have never heard that, ever as a test criteria. Is that a new standard on the test sheets for the car magazines? Never had a car do that, but I'm looking forward to it
...LOL
As I'm new to AMG vehicles I'm not getting into the 204/205 battle. But what was that at the end of this video, " It's going to make you're ***** tingle". I have never heard that, ever as a test criteria. Is that a new standard on the test sheets for the car magazines? Never had a car do that, but I'm looking forward to it
...LOL
03-22-2015, 06:11 PM
#34
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'14 C63 507, '11 C300, '96 Cobra, '91 Mr2
Car goes from W204 with 255s and plenty of traction issues to 265s with considerable bump in power / torque. PSSs / LSD are great, but they don't weave magic.
Cayman GT4 has 295 Pilot Sport Cup 2 rears with an LSD and considerably less power / torque. They didn't add that extra rubber for no reason.
AMG GT and GTS get 295 rears also, and they run the same engine as the C63, again, they added this rubber for a reason.
I think they went for 2 things with the 265s on the W205. Fuel economy and less engineering changes to the base C class. Traction came a distant third.
Cayman GT4 has 295 Pilot Sport Cup 2 rears with an LSD and considerably less power / torque. They didn't add that extra rubber for no reason.
AMG GT and GTS get 295 rears also, and they run the same engine as the C63, again, they added this rubber for a reason.
I think they went for 2 things with the 265s on the W205. Fuel economy and less engineering changes to the base C class. Traction came a distant third.
03-22-2015, 11:21 PM
#36
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C63 AMG 507 Edition
The standard W204 cars have open differentials. With that much power, the LSD is a must-have option.
I agree that good tires + a proper LSD don't weave magic but did you see the quotes from the review? You omitted them in your quote of my post.
A car's chassis and suspension setup also have an impact on grip. It seems that the W205 has an even better/more dynamic chassis than the LCI W204 C63s. With the W205 we finally get adjustable damping.
I agree that good tires + a proper LSD don't weave magic but did you see the quotes from the review? You omitted them in your quote of my post.
A car's chassis and suspension setup also have an impact on grip. It seems that the W205 has an even better/more dynamic chassis than the LCI W204 C63s. With the W205 we finally get adjustable damping.
I'd be cautious about drawing conclusions from one magazine review. Time will tell I guess. I just don't think the numbers add up.
Back to the original question, I hold to my original statement. Whilst the W205 will be a better car than the W204, in the context of the environment it is being released into, it will have nowhere near the impact of the W204, and is unlikely to be remembered with anywhere near the reverance that the W204 is / will be.
Ultimately I think the W205 is a missed opportunity. If the key shortcomings of the W204 could have been addressed, it could have been something special.
03-23-2015, 11:08 AM
#37
MBWorld Fanatic!
This links to nothing: https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-c6...eply&p=6371770
I'd be cautious about drawing conclusions from one magazine review. Time will tell I guess. I just don't think the numbers add up.
Back to the original question, I hold to my original statement. Whilst the W205 will be a better car than the W204, in the context of the environment it is being released into, it will have nowhere near the impact of the W204, and is unlikely to be remembered with anywhere near the reverance that the W204 is / will be.
Ultimately I think the W205 is a missed opportunity. If the key shortcomings of the W204 could have been addressed, it could have been something special.
I'd be cautious about drawing conclusions from one magazine review. Time will tell I guess. I just don't think the numbers add up.
Back to the original question, I hold to my original statement. Whilst the W205 will be a better car than the W204, in the context of the environment it is being released into, it will have nowhere near the impact of the W204, and is unlikely to be remembered with anywhere near the reverance that the W204 is / will be.
Ultimately I think the W205 is a missed opportunity. If the key shortcomings of the W204 could have been addressed, it could have been something special.
I certainly value/appreciate your opinion but I respectfully disagree. I think the W205 will build upon the W204 C63's legacy. They gave the car more power and torque, a better suspension, standard LSDs, wider tires (and arguably better tires with the PSS), great brakes, and a lighter curb weight. At the same time, the C63 has remained a tail-happy, RWD monster with great sound (despite the addition of turbochargers).
Based on the great reviews, I anticipate that this car will be a hit. However, I won't render final judgment until I can drive both W205 variants.
Also, I wasn't basing my comments on just one review. All of the reviews have been glowing. Here are a few:
Chris Harris:
Autocar:
CNET:
Top Gear:
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/m...ive-2015-02-26
Automobile Mag:
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...mg-c63-review/
Autocar (written):
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/mercedes-amg/c63
Car & Driver:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review
Last edited by zibby43; 03-23-2015 at 11:14 AM.
03-24-2015, 05:22 AM
#38
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2014 E63 S Hyacinth Red with Designo Ivory interior/ 2015 GLE63S Cavansite Blue
Based on the reviews I have high hopes for the W205. It certainly looks better both exterior and interior imo. I used to own W204 and loved it to bits. IMO it was the driver's car - the steering could not be more steady and firm, the engine was uber fantastic, the throttle response was greatly magnificent and the angry roar from the exhaust whenever I stepped on the gas at full throttle was purely orgasmic and ridiculous gratifying.
But there is one thing I could not stand after owning it for 2 years - the absence of choice of comfort suspension setting. There were times I felt my spine has been subjected to repeated jolts. It bothered me tremendously with the poor quality of road we have. Having a 2007 Z4 with unforgiving suspension as a daily drive was borderline bearable. But to have my weekend car that has somewhat similar shattering suspension was just too much for me to bear. It was a real shame that W204 did not have the optional suspension settings. I would have love that option. And eventually I had to abandon it for a E63S.
Now E63S is a different animal to W204 - of a different breed. The comfort setting has kept me really happy. (But I had to deal with another problem entirely - discussed in another thread). I am just being whiny but having the comfort setting is a huge plus for my family. And when I want to go crazy with the stiff suspension by myself, I can opt to do so. But having said that, I do miss the compact, sturdy steering, delinquent character of the C63.
Now, I have no doubt that the new W205 C63 drives like a hooligan as evident from the video reviews.
What I am wondering is how much of a comfort does the comfort suspension option provide? If it ticks the box, I will be definitely adding it as an addition to the garage. Then again, on a deeper thought...... I might just get it regardless.....!
Damn!!!!
But there is one thing I could not stand after owning it for 2 years - the absence of choice of comfort suspension setting. There were times I felt my spine has been subjected to repeated jolts. It bothered me tremendously with the poor quality of road we have. Having a 2007 Z4 with unforgiving suspension as a daily drive was borderline bearable. But to have my weekend car that has somewhat similar shattering suspension was just too much for me to bear. It was a real shame that W204 did not have the optional suspension settings. I would have love that option. And eventually I had to abandon it for a E63S.
Now E63S is a different animal to W204 - of a different breed. The comfort setting has kept me really happy. (But I had to deal with another problem entirely - discussed in another thread). I am just being whiny but having the comfort setting is a huge plus for my family. And when I want to go crazy with the stiff suspension by myself, I can opt to do so. But having said that, I do miss the compact, sturdy steering, delinquent character of the C63.
Now, I have no doubt that the new W205 C63 drives like a hooligan as evident from the video reviews.
What I am wondering is how much of a comfort does the comfort suspension option provide? If it ticks the box, I will be definitely adding it as an addition to the garage. Then again, on a deeper thought...... I might just get it regardless.....!
Damn!!!!
