Drove the Eurocharged tuned C63S, Holy Hell!!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,829
Likes: 95
'20 GLC300 SUV
My pleasure, Will!
In case you or anyone else is interested, here is a list containing all of the Top Tier retailers in North America:
http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html
In case you or anyone else is interested, here is a list containing all of the Top Tier retailers in North America:
http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html
Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 194
Likes: 2
From: East Coast
15 AMG C63S ED1
My pleasure, Will!
In case you or anyone else is interested, here is a list containing all of the Top Tier retailers in North America:
http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html
In case you or anyone else is interested, here is a list containing all of the Top Tier retailers in North America:
http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 963
Likes: 58
From: USA
CL63 AMG
Yes and those horsepower numbers are absolutely accurate from the seat of the pants. To be conservative I would say 620hp/tq at the cranks. These drive trains are getting much more efficient these days.
Tune is on pump 93 octane. The tune is not released yet, but it will be soon and will be worth every bit of the wait, so hold out just a little bit longer
Tune is on pump 93 octane. The tune is not released yet, but it will be soon and will be worth every bit of the wait, so hold out just a little bit longer
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 963
Likes: 58
From: USA
CL63 AMG
Traction is a WHOLE different issue. Stock tires cannot handle the power. A super sticky wide set of pilot super sports all around will help, or even sticker like a Dunlap ZII or Potenza 71-R. Once it hooks though... MY GOD. It's really fun to shift it into higher gears in manual mode at low Roma and use that massive tidal wave of torque
First gear is literally non existent, it's honestly a joke lol
Last edited by ML63 AMG; Jun 27, 2015 at 05:51 PM.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 963
Likes: 58
From: USA
CL63 AMG
Right now it is not OBD2 port tunable. And the ECU is in a very difficult spot to get to. The is a double edge sword as it costs a bit more to do the upgrade... However, NO dealership will waste their time to try and locate it and see if there is a tune on it. So it's actually much safer to do this tune than previous generations with regards to warranty be its simply not worth their time.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)
Verdad Gallardo
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 963
Likes: 58
From: USA
CL63 AMG
That cannot be ascertained by a simple OD port diagnostic. They would literally have to take the ECU ou, which on the w205s is a massive pain. As long as you don't have a bunch of externally visible modifications of any kind, they will assume the car is stock.
Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 163
Likes: 1
335d xDrive, C63S on order
I get though they might not look for it but I imagine MB will come up with a way to tell if a car has a tune without the ECU being removed.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 963
Likes: 58
From: USA
CL63 AMG
No there is no tell in the Data, even Jerry said it's impossible unless they take out the ECU and put it on a bench tuner. Boost levels are barely increased for the tune so it's nothing that would pop up out of the ordinary.
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 643
Likes: 92
From: Houston, TX
'15 C63S
If your engine/driveline is blown and you're attempting to replace it under warranty, I'm sure the MB tech will go to the trouble to check the ECU.
Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 163
Likes: 1
335d xDrive, C63S on order
Interesting that the boost is barely increased. How are they getting another 150hp odd from the engine? I'd assumed it would all be from more turbo pressure pretty much.
Exactly, I agree they probably won't notice, care when it comes to a service or such. However if it comes to the point that you need some major engine work then they've already got to do a lot to the engine so the fact the ECU is hard to get at probably won't make a difference then, they'll be likely to check it.
Having said all of this I'd certainly consider this after having the car for a while so if there is anything going to happen with the engine it's much less likely by that point. I'd not do something until you've clocked up a good few miles as problems are more likely to crop up early on and then the risk tails off. At least until you get to huge mileage numbers.
Having said all of this I'd certainly consider this after having the car for a while so if there is anything going to happen with the engine it's much less likely by that point. I'd not do something until you've clocked up a good few miles as problems are more likely to crop up early on and then the risk tails off. At least until you get to huge mileage numbers.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,589
Likes: 68
From: Texas
C63 507 AMG DA Car #19
Fast - HP/TQ increases can be had over base tune through the following:
1. Increase boost.... not just peak boost... but boost map, in all gears.
2. Increase timing...... getting LESS conservative..... and perhaps doing this with the requirement to run 93 octane fuel.
3. Optimize AFR..... getting LESS conservative..... and perhaps doing this with the requirement to run 93 octane fuel.
4. Trans optimization...... not more power..... but optimized shifts.... not sure if they are playing with this yet.
When I visited with the AMG rep at my local dealer, he said there was another 3-5 psi on the table based on what the CLA45 guys were doing with half the engine, but similar c/r stock boost levels.
1. Increase boost.... not just peak boost... but boost map, in all gears.
2. Increase timing...... getting LESS conservative..... and perhaps doing this with the requirement to run 93 octane fuel.
3. Optimize AFR..... getting LESS conservative..... and perhaps doing this with the requirement to run 93 octane fuel.
4. Trans optimization...... not more power..... but optimized shifts.... not sure if they are playing with this yet.
When I visited with the AMG rep at my local dealer, he said there was another 3-5 psi on the table based on what the CLA45 guys were doing with half the engine, but similar c/r stock boost levels.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 324
Likes: 9
From: Chapel Hill, NC
2015 C63S E1; 2016 C450 AMG
Fast - HP/TQ increases can be had over base tune through the following:
1. Increase boost.... not just peak boost... but boost map, in all gears.
2. Increase timing...... getting LESS conservative..... and perhaps doing this with the requirement to run 93 octane fuel.
3. Optimize AFR..... getting LESS conservative..... and perhaps doing this with the requirement to run 93 octane fuel.
4. Trans optimization...... not more power..... but optimized shifts.... not sure if they are playing with this yet.
When I visited with the AMG rep at my local dealer, he said there was another 3-5 psi on the table based on what the CLA45 guys were doing with half the engine, but similar c/r stock boost levels.
1. Increase boost.... not just peak boost... but boost map, in all gears.
2. Increase timing...... getting LESS conservative..... and perhaps doing this with the requirement to run 93 octane fuel.
3. Optimize AFR..... getting LESS conservative..... and perhaps doing this with the requirement to run 93 octane fuel.
4. Trans optimization...... not more power..... but optimized shifts.... not sure if they are playing with this yet.
When I visited with the AMG rep at my local dealer, he said there was another 3-5 psi on the table based on what the CLA45 guys were doing with half the engine, but similar c/r stock boost levels.
Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 163
Likes: 1
335d xDrive, C63S on order
So in the UK with our manual the car already needs 98 RON fuel where as normal is 95 RON. Even some of the super unleaded like BP's is only 97 RON. So it already really should only be run on 93 octane fuel as its branded in the U.S.
According to the manual it'll run with 95 RON but you shouldn't try to use all of the power. So to me it's already setup to use premium fuel at least here.
I get Merc will still have left a good deal of room to play but 150+hp worth? There isn't better fuel I can get at the pump here really.
I believe by the way from some reviews the first 3 gears are torque limited because even with the limit it can still brake traction easily. I imagine with those limits removed and no traction control on your be spinning up to silly speeds. All the way straight to a tire shop
According to the manual it'll run with 95 RON but you shouldn't try to use all of the power. So to me it's already setup to use premium fuel at least here.
I get Merc will still have left a good deal of room to play but 150+hp worth? There isn't better fuel I can get at the pump here really.
I believe by the way from some reviews the first 3 gears are torque limited because even with the limit it can still brake traction easily. I imagine with those limits removed and no traction control on your be spinning up to silly speeds. All the way straight to a tire shop
Last edited by FastLaneJB; Jul 1, 2015 at 05:57 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,589
Likes: 68
From: Texas
C63 507 AMG DA Car #19
Good points FLJB - drag racers have been running "stock" motors closer to the edge in so called stock classes to eake out another 10hp or another tenth....... just wait until the serious quarter mile guys get ahold of this platform and add all the bolt-ons the traction tricks, and all the I/C wgt reduction tricks..... it will get interesting.
There are stock suspension fox body mustangs running 10's with small slicks...... and the c has much better suspension than the tired fox, and much better diff.
There are stock suspension fox body mustangs running 10's with small slicks...... and the c has much better suspension than the tired fox, and much better diff.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 835
Likes: 20
From: Houston, Texas
2005 E55 AMG
As a software manager and "ex-programmer", I find it hard to believe that it would NOT be easy to see if the ECU has been flashed. But it is like the old saying "the bad guys are always trying to stay 1 step a head of the good guys"! :-)
betrexra, the old tired fox is also about 500 lbs less than this C class.
betrexra, the old tired fox is also about 500 lbs less than this C class.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,382
Likes: 73
C204 C250-CDI
So in the UK with our manual the car already needs 98 RON fuel where as normal is 95 RON. Even some of the super unleaded like BP's is only 97 RON. So it already really should only be run on 93 octane fuel as its branded in the U.S.
According to the manual it'll run with 95 RON but you shouldn't try to use all of the power. So to me it's already setup to use premium fuel at least here.
I get Merc will still have left a good deal of room to play but 150+hp worth? There isn't better fuel I can get at the pump here really.
I believe by the way from some reviews the first 3 gears are torque limited because even with the limit it can still brake traction easily. I imagine with those limits removed and no traction control on your be spinning up to silly speeds. All the way straight to a tire shop
According to the manual it'll run with 95 RON but you shouldn't try to use all of the power. So to me it's already setup to use premium fuel at least here.
I get Merc will still have left a good deal of room to play but 150+hp worth? There isn't better fuel I can get at the pump here really.
I believe by the way from some reviews the first 3 gears are torque limited because even with the limit it can still brake traction easily. I imagine with those limits removed and no traction control on your be spinning up to silly speeds. All the way straight to a tire shop
Out of curiosity you don't have the higher octane ethanol blends there in the U.K ?
Here in Australia we now have 100 & 105 octane fuels available at the pump, I know of some A/CLA45 owners running tunes and very high power/torque outputs with this fuel, obviously not good for older car/engine types but AFAIK ok to use with all newer vehicles.
Also torque limiting is something that's incorporated in most high power FI cars these days and has been for some time both with auto and manual transmissions, I have an 11 year old Opel with a 2ltr turbo manual and it's torque limited in 1st and 2nd, also cars like the Mazda MPS are torque limited in the initial gears, the list goes on and on.
Most software tunes can totally remove or at least partially remove the limiters.
Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 163
Likes: 1
335d xDrive, C63S on order
Out of curiosity you don't have the higher octane ethanol blends there in the U.K ?
Here in Australia we now have 100 & 105 octane fuels available at the pump, I know of some A/CLA45 owners running tunes and very high power/torque outputs with this fuel, obviously not good for older car/engine types but AFAIK ok to use with all newer vehicles.
Also torque limiting is something that's incorporated in most high power FI cars these days and has been for some time both with auto and manual transmissions, I have an 11 year old Opel with a 2ltr turbo manual and it's torque limited in 1st and 2nd, also cars like the Mazda MPS are torque limited in the initial gears, the list goes on and on.
Most software tunes can totally remove or at least partially remove the limiters.
Here in Australia we now have 100 & 105 octane fuels available at the pump, I know of some A/CLA45 owners running tunes and very high power/torque outputs with this fuel, obviously not good for older car/engine types but AFAIK ok to use with all newer vehicles.
Also torque limiting is something that's incorporated in most high power FI cars these days and has been for some time both with auto and manual transmissions, I have an 11 year old Opel with a 2ltr turbo manual and it's torque limited in 1st and 2nd, also cars like the Mazda MPS are torque limited in the initial gears, the list goes on and on.
Most software tunes can totally remove or at least partially remove the limiters.
95 RON = Normal and everywhere
97 RON = BP Ultimate
99 RON = Shell vPower and Tesco Monument
So I'll be using 99 RON when I get mine. We did have 102 RON for a short while but only 20 odd stations in the country sold it and they stopped a good few years ago. Guess there wasn't enough demand for it.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,382
Likes: 73
C204 C250-CDI
Strangely we cannot get 98 RON but we have the following:
95 RON = Normal and everywhere
97 RON = BP Ultimate
99 RON = Shell vPower and Tesco Monument
So I'll be using 99 RON when I get mine. We did have 102 RON for a short while but only 20 odd stations in the country sold it and they stopped a good few years ago. Guess there wasn't enough demand for it.
95 RON = Normal and everywhere
97 RON = BP Ultimate
99 RON = Shell vPower and Tesco Monument
So I'll be using 99 RON when I get mine. We did have 102 RON for a short while but only 20 odd stations in the country sold it and they stopped a good few years ago. Guess there wasn't enough demand for it.
Interesting thanks for the info
AFAIK the RON is measured differently from Country to Country.
Here it's:
92 RON = Normal everywhere
95 RON = Premium unleaded everywhere
98 RON = Shell VPower/Optimax, BP Ultimate and pretty much all the other main suppliers also have 98 RON.
100 RON Shell VPower/Optimax was only available at limited stations and stopped after a short duration, supposedly not many people using it here either as you mentioned above.
100 & 105 RON = United ethanol blends, only recently the 105 - we'll see how long that lasts, hopefully the 105 stays long term.
I've tried the United 100 in my other FI vehicles with tunes and it makes a definite difference compared to the other 98's, yet to try the 105
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 963
Likes: 58
From: USA
CL63 AMG
You will NOT be able to blow the motor... Trust me. The only thing is you may over cook the turbos (that's the only real weakness in the stock platform.)
Had a private confirmation with Jerry, when he told me the real natural limits of the engine... My jaw literally hit the floor. AMG built this engine to be virtually indestructible. The stock 21psi is nothing compared to what the motor can actually handle.
I will put it this way... The M177/178 is the modern reincarnation of the Toyota Supra 2JZ twin turbo engine. You are NO WHERE NEAR the natural limits of this fully forged engine with this performance tune. I am sworn to secrecy to say one more
Moral of the story, go out an get the eurocharged tune, you will get the free upgraded reflashes for the life of the vehicle
Had a private confirmation with Jerry, when he told me the real natural limits of the engine... My jaw literally hit the floor. AMG built this engine to be virtually indestructible. The stock 21psi is nothing compared to what the motor can actually handle.
I will put it this way... The M177/178 is the modern reincarnation of the Toyota Supra 2JZ twin turbo engine. You are NO WHERE NEAR the natural limits of this fully forged engine with this performance tune. I am sworn to secrecy to say one more
Moral of the story, go out an get the eurocharged tune, you will get the free upgraded reflashes for the life of the vehicle
Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 163
Likes: 1
335d xDrive, C63S on order
You will NOT be able to blow the motor... Trust me. The only thing is you may over cook the turbos (that's the only real weakness in the stock platform.)
Had a private confirmation with Jerry, when he told me the real natural limits of the engine... My jaw literally hit the floor. AMG built this engine to be virtually indestructible. The stock 21psi is nothing compared to what the motor can actually handle.
I will put it this way... The M177/178 is the modern reincarnation of the Toyota Supra 2JZ twin turbo engine. You are NO WHERE NEAR the natural limits of this fully forged engine with this performance tune. I am sworn to secrecy to say one more
Moral of the story, go out an get the eurocharged tune, you will get the free upgraded reflashes for the life of the vehicle
Had a private confirmation with Jerry, when he told me the real natural limits of the engine... My jaw literally hit the floor. AMG built this engine to be virtually indestructible. The stock 21psi is nothing compared to what the motor can actually handle.
I will put it this way... The M177/178 is the modern reincarnation of the Toyota Supra 2JZ twin turbo engine. You are NO WHERE NEAR the natural limits of this fully forged engine with this performance tune. I am sworn to secrecy to say one more
Moral of the story, go out an get the eurocharged tune, you will get the free upgraded reflashes for the life of the vehicle
I suspect this is all because they'll use this engine across the board in the future and in cars with more bhp than the C63S. Not putting better turbos for this model is simply because they don't need to for the power outputs they are selling it at but the engine is the same to cut R&D costs I imagine.
I take it this tune won't over cook the turbos or that's a possibility?
Last edited by FastLaneJB; Jul 6, 2015 at 06:53 AM.
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 643
Likes: 92
From: Houston, TX
'15 C63S
You will NOT be able to blow the motor... Trust me. The only thing is you may over cook the turbos (that's the only real weakness in the stock platform.)
Had a private confirmation with Jerry, when he told me the real natural limits of the engine... My jaw literally hit the floor. AMG built this engine to be virtually indestructible. The stock 21psi is nothing compared to what the motor can actually handle.
I will put it this way... The M177/178 is the modern reincarnation of the Toyota Supra 2JZ twin turbo engine. You are NO WHERE NEAR the natural limits of this fully forged engine with this performance tune. I am sworn to secrecy to say one more
Moral of the story, go out an get the eurocharged tune, you will get the free upgraded reflashes for the life of the vehicle
Had a private confirmation with Jerry, when he told me the real natural limits of the engine... My jaw literally hit the floor. AMG built this engine to be virtually indestructible. The stock 21psi is nothing compared to what the motor can actually handle.
I will put it this way... The M177/178 is the modern reincarnation of the Toyota Supra 2JZ twin turbo engine. You are NO WHERE NEAR the natural limits of this fully forged engine with this performance tune. I am sworn to secrecy to say one more
Moral of the story, go out an get the eurocharged tune, you will get the free upgraded reflashes for the life of the vehicle
What about other driveline components (transmission, diff, halfshafts, etc.)? Are those just as over-engineered?
You're only as strong as the weakest link in the chain.
