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I've been struggling with heat just like you have and I've basically gotten to the point where I can get a couple hot laps in and then have to cool the brakes down with a few parade laps even with fluid/track pads etc. If you need a guinea pig (that will pay for the parts) let me know as I'll be at Road Atlanta in June to really get some heat in to the brakes.
I've been struggling with heat just like you have and I've basically gotten to the point where I can get a couple hot laps in and then have to cool the brakes down with a few parade laps even with fluid/track pads etc. If you need a guinea pig (that will pay for the parts) let me know as I'll be at Road Atlanta in June to really get some heat in to the brakes.
All good Kurt, I've been meaning to post here for the last several months be haven't been on the forum or had it in the fore of my mind.
Re brake ducting; I watched a review of the 718 GT4 RS and saw that Porsche was using vents in the hood to channel airflow to the front brakes and it occurred to me that this was a much simpler solution from a routing standpoint. Obviously it would require a new hood and some different fabrication but thought it was worth a little consideration.
Re ebrakes; see attached Brembo new model release a few months back into 21. Also the new SL has an updated single piston/ebrake unit (from what I can tell in photos; might've even been mentioned here before).
I've been struggling with heat just like you have and I've basically gotten to the point where I can get a couple hot laps in and then have to cool the brakes down with a few parade laps even with fluid/track pads etc. If you need a guinea pig (that will pay for the parts) let me know as I'll be at Road Atlanta in June to really get some heat in to the brakes.
All good Kurt, I've been meaning to post here for the last several months be haven't been on the forum or had it in the fore of my mind.
Re brake ducting; I watched a review of the 718 GT4 RS and saw that Porsche was using vents in the hood to channel airflow to the front brakes and it occurred to me that this was a much simpler solution from a routing standpoint. Obviously it would require a new hood and some different fabrication but thought it was worth a little consideration.
Re ebrakes; see attached Brembo new model release a few months back into 21. Also the new SL has an updated single piston/ebrake unit (from what I can tell in photos; might've even been mentioned here before).
You wouldn't have a part number for that ebrake on the SL?
Finally, we have created a few prototypes for brake cooling ducts/vanes and will be 3D printing those this week and next as well. Essex recommends not running any brake ducts with their kits but I may do it anyway for the sake of science and for those of us that just want to run the stock brake kit but with track pads and fluid. I am sure that by adding in brake ducts, that a stock caliper/track pads/track fluid set up would work well.
Stay tuned as I hope to provide more updates as we get closer.
Thanks.
Kurt
I missed this earlier - great news on the updates. Pending any concrete brake ducts for the front, I am debating on trying Girodisc up front. My stock rotors are starting to show minor cracks, and if I am going to dump $1500 on rotors, might as well upgrade. I an not sure if they run cooler as Girodisc advertises, but my local race shop recommends them for that reason.
Is the rear brake replacement just to maintain the same brakes all around, to avoid bias? The rears are not much of an issue in terms of wear and heat for these cars, and it seems like playing with the eBrake is more hassle than it is worth (unless the SL version is plug and play). With that being said, I more often turn off the eBrake anyway (the C63 is not for leisurely drives through the neighborhood - there are other cars for that) so I doubt I will miss it.
You wouldn't have a part number for that ebrake on the SL?
Kurt
Pardon Kurt, just seeing this; I haven't researched it beyond seeing it in photos and I don't have an established relationship with a service writer yet.
Well guys, I have given up. We have tried so many different things to get this AP kit to work and after six months of trial and error in the shop, I have to give up. It has been too much work and each new resolution creates two new issues. I hate to lose and hate giving up but I just don't have the stamina for this. So, the stock kit is going back and we will continue to work on the ducts. Those that we did develop were based upon the new calipers so we will have to start over on those (sorry Matto357). I will report back but man, I am bummed.
IN THE PURSUIT OF FRONT ROW OF THE GRID LAP TIMES !
(Allowing to go deeper into the corners with increased traction, braking response and to hit those corner apex’s every time)
We manufacture a “Total System” for all W204 models (in fact all Merc’s 1968 to 2021). When it comes to suspension Bushings, Strut and Wishbone adjusters (and seeing there is only Front and Rear Toe "directional" adjustment OEM.... providing "FULL ALIGNMENT” capability !).
At KMAC we have been manufacturing performance bushings and adjuster kits to overcome such OEM suspension shortcomings since 1964.
Constantly designing, developing, competition proving in all out 10/10th's racing – heavy V8's end of main straight hitting corner race curbs, fully launching and coming down broadside, lap after lap. Situations where on evaluating Race Safety scrutineers rule only KMAC adjusters to be used.
FOR W204 incl. AMG, Black Series
FRONT:
1. FRONT LOWER ARM BUSHINGS
Up to 1.5 degrees Pos. or Neg. Camber and also Caster adjustable. (lower arm Neg. adjustment also increases track width).
Nothing comes close when it comes to out and out strength, range of adjustment and ease / accuracy of adjustment.
Unique patented design provides single wrench adjustment. Accurate (under load) direct on alignment rack.
Forward facing thrust arm (Caster adjustable) bushes are Mono ball / 2 Axis dramatically improving brake and steering response. Out performing steel spherical bearings having more then twice the load bearing / impact area
2. FRONT UPPER STRUT MOUNTSWhen you’re really serious about “extra” adjustment for Track days. With KMAC patented design allows precise adjustment of Camber and Caster “from engine bay” without strut removal. Up to 3 degrees extra Neg Camber (1.5 Pos.).
Not steel or soft billet alloy. Ultimate highest 7075 aircraft aluminum. Massive H/Duty spherical bearings and also separate fully sealed thrust bearings for steering loads. Also fit with all brands of coil overs 60-70ᵐᵐ I.D. Designed for minimum stack height.
STAGE 2 STREET / RACE #503016-2L $545 (Both Sides) STAGE 3 FULL RACE #503016-3L $545(Both Sides)
BLACK SERIES STAGE 2 STREET / RACE #502616-2L $545(Both sides) STAGE 3 FULL RACE #502616-3L $545(Both sides)
3. FOR THE REAR “LOWER ARM” CAMBER KIT (and extra Toe to compensate)
Same as front fast / Precise single wrench adjustment at trackside to adjust for maximum traction (lower arm kit retains important clearance top of tire to outer fender) #502226K $480(Both Sides).
4. REAR UPPER CAMBER ARM ADJUSTERS (also extra Toe to compensate)
Not soft extruded aluminum but Hi-strength forged alloy same as OEM (upper arms adjusts top of tire). #502226-1M $595 (Both Sides)
5. ALSO MANUFACTURE:
Uprated Bushings for the 6 Multi link rear arms. Less twitch / flex, loss of traction especially when applying power to lane change / overtake, designed to outperform short life delrin or spherical bearings#502528K $480 (set 12)
6. UPRATED BUSHINGS FOR THE REAR SUBFRAME (4)
Further reducing rear end twitch / flex, loss of traction. Time saving bush extraction tool included allowing replacement without complete removal of subframe. #503028Q $890
K-Mac,
This post says W204 but do you have these for the W205's and more specifically a 2019 C63S Coupe?
Hi
Yes seeing OEM there is only Toe (directional) adjustment we manufacture front and rear adjuster kits for virtually every model Mercedes Benz 1968 to 2022.
For W205 C63/S Front Camber only #503316-1i $345 This is an extremely popular front kit resolving costly, premature, edge tire wear for less cost than a single hi-performance tire.
Replaces lower arm inner bushings. Fit without need for arm removal. Unique patented design allows fast, precise single wrench adjustment up to 1.5 degrees Positive or Negative.
Front Camber (& Caster) kit #503316K $480
Above Camber plus Caster. KMAC Caster bushings also significantly improve brake and steering response by replacing the large diameter soft rubber, oil and air voided OEM bushes. Unlike other brands with KMAC bushes are Monoball / 2 Axis still allowing arms to travel through their “required suspension arcs” without binding, locking up. Design superceding short life steel spherical bearings having more then two and half times the load bearing, impact area.
Front Upper ‘A’ arm Camber and Caster kit #503316-2J $380
(Unlike W204 Model “Strut” front suspension). Provides extra adjustment for Track days. Like the lower arm kits also eliminating the OEM soft rubber mounts. KMAC „A‟ arm design also retains the security of using the existing OEM high-strength forged alloy Arms.
FOR THE REAR SUSPENSION
C63‘S’ Coupe Lower Arm inner Camber and Toe kit #502326-1K $480
Fit without need for arm removal. (Extra Toe adjustment compensates for the new Rear Camber facility).
NOTE: C63‘S’ Coupe OEM - These inner rear bush mounts you can fit OEM one only position offset plates. But only allow a minute 3/16” (4mm) Camber change.
KMAC design allows 4 times this adjustment and is precise/accurate - single wrench direct on alignment rack (accurately under load). Fixing it right the 1st. time.
C63/S Sedan / Wagon. Rear kit is also Camber and Extra Toe adjustable #502226K $480
Also fit without arm removal and precise single wrench adjustable.
Delivery $40 one kit - $60 Front & Rear.
KMAC - Experience Of Resolving OEM Suspension Shortcomings Since 1964!
Sorry for hijacking your thread Kurt, but what Lap Timer/Camera setup are you using? Also, are you still stock ride height? I'm looking at getting the K Mac kits but also thinking about an adjustable spring kit.
Sorry for hijacking your thread Kurt, but what Lap Timer/Camera setup are you using? Also, are you still stock ride height? I'm looking at getting the K Mac kits but also thinking about an adjustable spring kit.
No worries at all, this thread is for all things track related so good to have your participation. I have been using two devices, Harry's lap timer and then the Aim 2 Solo. The former is quick and easy to use but I have trouble getting into the deeper settings so I just use it for the fun laps when not really trying to accomplish anything other than having some good video with limited data overlays. I use the Aim for the real stuff when I want to understand more and get better feedback from my coach on how to do better; better lines, better braking points, when to carry more speed change my shift points. The downside to the Aim is that it is more cumbersome to use, you need a laptop at the track and the video quality is subpar by today's standards.
As for ride height, it is stock. I have gone with wider rubber so the stock height is necessary to prevent any rubbing.
No worries at all, this thread is for all things track related so good to have your participation. I have been using two devices, Harry's lap timer and then the Aim 2 Solo. The former is quick and easy to use but I have trouble getting into the deeper settings so I just use it for the fun laps when not really trying to accomplish anything other than having some good video with limited data overlays. I use the Aim for the real stuff when I want to understand more and get better feedback from my coach on how to do better; better lines, better braking points, when to carry more speed change my shift points. The downside to the Aim is that it is more cumbersome to use, you need a laptop at the track and the video quality is subpar by today's standards.
As for ride height, it is stock. I have gone with wider rubber so the stock height is necessary to prevent any rubbing.
Kurt
Thank for the info, I have a coupe and I'm trying to get the extra weight up top lower (pano roof) so I ordered a KW Has kit to go with my K Mac front/rear kit. Another question that I didn't see mention is do you have any cooling problems besides the brakes? I did my first weekend with the car at NOLA a few weeks ago and it was hot. Surprisingly the oil temp never went about 225 and trans temp stay below 205. I was running Cup 2s and pushing it pretty hard pulling 1.3-1.4gs. Finally got my pressures to stay around 37-38 but the temp on the tire monitoring sensors were low 200s (at least the front) and all tires were in the red.
As far as timing devices have you ever used the Garmin Catalyst?
Thank for the info, I have a coupe and I'm trying to get the extra weight up top lower (pano roof) so I ordered a KW Has kit to go with my K Mac front/rear kit. Another question that I didn't see mention is do you have any cooling problems besides the brakes? I did my first weekend with the car at NOLA a few weeks ago and it was hot. Surprisingly the oil temp never went about 225 and trans temp stay below 205. I was running Cup 2s and pushing it pretty hard pulling 1.3-1.4gs. Finally got my pressures to stay around 37-38 but the temp on the tire monitoring sensors were low 200s (at least the front) and all tires were in the red.
As far as timing devices have you ever used the Garmin Catalyst?
Powell,
I haver never had any other cooling issues besides the brakes. The engine seems bullet proof and even with track days around 110F, I have never had an issue. As for a Garmin, I generally use Harry's Lap Timer and when I want real data, an AIM II Solo. Several friends have Garmins and it while nice, they can only compare to your "best" and not real data. Keep in mind, that your "best" may not be the true best through a corner. Considering entry speeds, apex speeds, cornering, cornering position, attitude of the car, it may help you get to 90 or 95% but I really doubt it can replace the true data that something like AIM will give you. I invite others to chime in as I may be incorrect.
K
Also, I know I mentioned I abandoned the AP brake kit but I am going to see how it performs with just the front APs installed. I hope to have that done in a few weeks.
If you want an extremely capable (even programmable) data-capture device, it's hard to beat the value of the RaceCapture units (no affiliation, just a customer). I've been running one for over a year, now, and am very happy with it (after giving up on VBOX). https://www.autosportlabs.com/
For those have been wondering where I got the rotors: https://racingbrake.com/ I am not sure what rotor anymore so it would be best to contact them to see what they recommend. By the way, I am going to put the AP kit on the front and see how it performs. I will stick with the stock calipers out back but with Porterfield SST-47 compound pads....I think.
Hi
Yes seeing OEM there is only Toe (directional) adjustment we manufacture front and rear adjuster kits for virtually every model Mercedes Benz 1968 to 2022.
For W205 C63/S Front Camber only #503316-1i $345 This is an extremely popular front kit resolving costly, premature, edge tire wear for less cost than a single hi-performance tire.
Replaces lower arm inner bushings. Fit without need for arm removal. Unique patented design allows fast, precise single wrench adjustment up to 1.5 degrees Positive or Negative.
Front Camber (& Caster) kit #503316K $480
Above Camber plus Caster. KMAC Caster bushings also significantly improve brake and steering response by replacing the large diameter soft rubber, oil and air voided OEM bushes. Unlike other brands with KMAC bushes are Monoball / 2 Axis still allowing arms to travel through their “required suspension arcs” without binding, locking up. Design superceding short life steel spherical bearings having more then two and half times the load bearing, impact area.
Front Upper ‘A’ arm Camber and Caster kit #503316-2J $380
(Unlike W204 Model “Strut” front suspension). Provides extra adjustment for Track days. Like the lower arm kits also eliminating the OEM soft rubber mounts. KMAC „A‟ arm design also retains the security of using the existing OEM high-strength forged alloy Arms.
FOR THE REAR SUSPENSION
C63‘S’ Coupe Lower Arm inner Camber and Toe kit #502326-1K $480
Fit without need for arm removal. (Extra Toe adjustment compensates for the new Rear Camber facility).
NOTE: C63‘S’ Coupe OEM - These inner rear bush mounts you can fit OEM one only position offset plates. But only allow a minute 3/16” (4mm) Camber change.
KMAC design allows 4 times this adjustment and is precise/accurate - single wrench direct on alignment rack (accurately under load). Fixing it right the 1st. time.
C63/S Sedan / Wagon. Rear kit is also Camber and Extra Toe adjustable #502226K $480
Also fit without arm removal and precise single wrench adjustable.
Delivery $40 one kit - $60 Front & Rear.
KMAC - Experience Of Resolving OEM Suspension Shortcomings Since 1964!
I have this rear kit but have yet to put it on but hope to shortly. I will let you all know how it works. I can say that under heavy braking, the car has an unsettled rear end so I am hoping this will resolve it.
I have this rear kit but have yet to put it on but hope to shortly. I will let you all know how it works. I can say that under heavy braking, the car has an unsettled rear end so I am hoping this will resolve it.
Kurt
Kurt,
I got the front and rear kit installed with my KW Has kit along with a track alignment and corner balanced. I haven't been back on track yet, but I can tell from the back roads I run that the car is way more stable. I'm seeing 10+mph increase in speed on the small straights in between corners.
Kurt,
I got the front and rear kit installed with my KW Has kit along with a track alignment and corner balanced. I haven't been back on track yet, but I can tell from the back roads I run that the car is way more stable. I'm seeing 10+mph increase in speed on the small straights in between corners.
Wow! That is great to hear and cannot wait to get it installed on my car. Report back once you have had it on track.
Wow! That is great to hear and cannot wait to get it installed on my car. Report back once you have had it on track.
K
Kurt,
Car felt more stable under braking and less understeer in the tighter corners. My next event is a PCA event at the end of October. I need to get a timing device/camera to see what I need to work on but I am still a beginner just running in NASA group 2.
I do need to upgrade my pads I’ve been running EBC blues and I haven’t cooked them but I also haven’t been as hard on them as I’m not sure I have faith in them holding up.
As far as tires go, how many track days should I expect to be getting out of Cup2s.
Car felt more stable under braking and less understeer in the tighter corners. My next event is a PCA event at the end of October. I need to get a timing device/camera to see what I need to work on but I am still a beginner just running in NASA group 2.
I do need to upgrade my pads I’ve been running EBC blues and I haven’t cooked them but I also haven’t been as hard on them as I’m not sure I have faith in them holding up.
As far as tires go, how many track days should I expect to be getting out of Cup2s.
Understeer stinks doesn't it!? I am happy to hear that your car felt better. It is amazing what some camber can do for a car on track. As for tire life, it depends on how hard you push it, camber settings, surface of the track, heat cycling to name just a few. When I first started, I was running low 2:20s at Thunderhill; a medium abrasion surface, high heat track. I would get about 4 to five track days out of my front tires and maybe one or two more for the rears. Now, I am running around 2 minutes flat and am lucky to get two full days out of the fronts and three on the rears. Let's face it, our cars are heavy and that takes a toll on the fronts. Keep at it and report back with any good updates. Videos are always appreciated.
05-10-2022, 02:59 PM
