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Posting this not because Rebellion asked, but because I'm decently happy right now with them. They finally responded to me and ended up sending me a brand new, redesigned piggyback with a newer tune.
Recapping my own issues; the Rebellion piggy ran fine for months after I got it last year, but on a hot day in August after driving around, when I went to start the car it immediately loped around like it had cams.. then died. Several restarts yielded the same. Plug in bypass, and it ran like stock again, albeit with a CEL. The CEL went away after a bit. When I went to plug in the bypass, the piggyback was HOT. Like... I needed a towel to hold it. Underhood temps with the hot V turbos were probably soaking into the all-metal piggyback.. and after a few months, I think it started taking a toll on the electronics within. Reminds me of the RRoD fiasco with the XBOX 360. After the piggyback cooled, I tried it again, it worked fine.. but a few days later, same deal.
Contacted Rebellion and they had me send the piggyback back to them for inspection. Sucked to be running stock again, could definitely feel the loss, but I wanted it fixed. Round trip for the piggy was well over a month.. ended up costing me $100+ to ship it too. Got the piggyback back in late Sept, and it ran OK for a few weeks.. I even wrapped it in heat reflective tape. But again, another warm day and just driving around all afternoon.. poof. Can't get car started + CEL. A few emails to Rebellion again, and it was agreed that there was simply something wrong with the piggyback. I had suggested that it was heatsoak. They agreed, and said they'd send me a new one.
This was around November. I left the piggyback in the car, figuring I'd just pop on the bypass plug if it did it again, but it was the cold and rainy months so no more 210F+ engine temps. I pinged them again in January, asking what the status was since I hadn't received the new piggyback. I knew that if I got the same piggyback, I'd probably end up with the same issues a few more months down the line. I got a response stating they were just finalizing a new tune and would be loading it onto a new piggyback and sending it over the pond.
2 weeks later, it arrived. When I popped it open, lo and behold! A completely redesigned piggyback, that doesn't look like all the other ones from other vendors. It looks to be made of the high-density black plastic you see throughout our engine bay. Very promising.
Well, it's been about a week. Temperatures have warmed up the last few days, and I spent the afternoon really running the car though the usual conditions that cause the issues before. When I got home, I let the car sit for a few mins, just for the heat to really just circulate. Popped the hood.. and put my hand directly on the new piggyback. Was only slightly warm. I'm happy with the results.
Time will tell regarding long-term use, but I suspect that if the piggy's not getting as remotely hot as before.. I won't have the same issues as before. I didn't have a power drop-off issue like others. I always had it on setting 5 as recommended by Matt before he left Rebellion, since I'm on ****ty CA 91 octane.
Old Rebellion piggy to the left (with the remnants of adhesive from the heat tape) and new piggy to the right.
Funny I have seen that exact one from another member last year when I was having my issues. I had issues like you and had 3 different boxes here and back to them. I was hoping that I would have gotten this "model" before I gave up.
Either way glad you got this. I know they other guy has been running it for some time and has had no issues.
To be honest, I don't think it's necessarily a direct fault of Rebellion's. Pretty sure they source the physical piggyback hardware from the same source several other tuners are using since they look exactly the same sans branding sticker. When everything was working, it worked like a charm. It's heat soak into a thick metal box that's the problem. Oven baked electronics only survive for so long, and when you constantly cycle hot/cold, it just makes it worse.
Now that the heat problem is solved, the tune itself is the variable and I'll see how things go with it. Never did get it on the dyno, so that'll be my next task. I originally was going to go with a EC or Dime tune/turbos, but given the cost and the drama in the other thread, plus a possible move out of the country necessitating me to sell my cars, I'm holding off.
I wonder how many from the original group buy are still running theirs.
Still running mine but not happy with it. I sent several e-mails (PMs) to them early on and never received a response. I'm currently in the market for an ECU tune but just haven't had time to get it pulled and mailed out. As soon as that happens, the piggy is gone.
Still running mine but not happy with it. I sent several e-mails (PMs) to them early on and never received a response. I'm currently in the market for an ECU tune but just haven't had time to get it pulled and mailed out. As soon as that happens, the piggy is gone.
What problems are you seeing?
Same as ours? Stalling on start, power drop-off at high RPMs? CEL?
Prob won't hurt to send one last set of emails to them; they took a while to respond, and I didn't have to pay anything for them to send the latest piggyback.
Still running mine but not happy with it. I sent several e-mails (PMs) to them early on and never received a response. I'm currently in the market for an ECU tune but just haven't had time to get it pulled and mailed out. As soon as that happens, the piggy is gone.
My buddy was running a piggyback on his C63s and he complained about it constantly. He ended up getting dyno tuned at AMR Performance in CT and now loves the car, but point is I have been hearing a lot of negatives lately about the piggybacks. I used to think everybody wanted one, but I am starting to hear otherwise. I went directly to an ECU upgrade myself, so I do not have experience with them, but I just found this thread interesting.
i suppose that makes 3 different boxes/versions Rebellion has made. My early production box is bigger, uses two plugs, and is aluminum with heat sinks.
my first rebellion box would heat soak and not hold boost after 4k rpms. I was sent a new box and it held straight to redline. the new box was different color.
I dont understand the hate with a piggy back IF it works. There is no "flash" and so the manufacturer cant tell if your car is tuned. certain manufactures have built in flash counters and so even if you flash back to stock, your warranty will be voided if you flash it.
my first rebellion box would heat soak and not hold boost after 4k rpms. I was sent a new box and it held straight to redline. the new box was different color.
I dont understand the hate with a piggy back IF it works. There is no "flash" and so the manufacturer cant tell if your car is tuned. certain manufactures have built in flash counters and so even if you flash back to stock, your warranty will be voided if you flash it.
because of very high percentage of them seem to not work. Plus if I'm correct Audi has flash counters and Mercedes does not. For the price that you can get a tune on sale it is hardly worth paying for a box
I wouldn't say high percentage; you can't really base it on feedback you see on forums as it'll always be the most vocal. I do agree that it's hit or miss though, but when you think about it, piggybacks were just starting to become popular a year ago (when the Rebellion group buy thing got rolling). ECU tunes only started really coming into their own in the later half of 2016. The aftermarket is only going to get better as the years roll by and AMG continues to use the same engine/ECU across their 63 lineup.
Piggyback suit their purpose just fine; ECU tunes are better, but are more involved.
I wouldn't say high percentage; you can't really base it on feedback you see on forums as it'll always be the most vocal. I do agree that it's hit or miss though, but when you think about it, piggybacks were just starting to become popular a year ago (when the Rebellion group buy thing got rolling). ECU tunes only started really coming into their own in the later half of 2016. The aftermarket is only going to get better as the years roll by and AMG continues to use the same engine/ECU across their 63 lineup.
Piggyback suit their purpose just fine; ECU tunes are better, but are more involved.
This is because companies need time to do research and development on the vehicle to produce their software. Personally, that makes me feel more secure purchasing the ECU tune because it is tested and fully developed as opposed to a box that is a "hit or miss" that is released instantly. Not to talk smack about the piggybacks this is just a thought process to consider when upgrading your vehicle. As mentioned above ^ they serve a purpose but full software upgrades are far superior.
I wouldn't say high percentage; you can't really base it on feedback you see on forums as it'll always be the most vocal. I do agree that it's hit or miss though, but when you think about it, piggybacks were just starting to become popular a year ago (when the Rebellion group buy thing got rolling). ECU tunes only started really coming into their own in the later half of 2016. The aftermarket is only going to get better as the years roll by and AMG continues to use the same engine/ECU across their 63 lineup.
Piggyback suit their purpose just fine; ECU tunes are better, but are more involved.
I stick by my comment that a high percentage.
First, you are assuming that people outside of the forums are buying them. That would be pure assumption. People who upgrade cars often sign up for forums. Rebellion would seem to be a company that gets a lot of their customers from forums and word of mouth. Word of mouth doesn't seem so great.
Second, it appears that the problem is a design flaw. That would be a flaw with the unit and not an individuals car. Since rebellion seems to be working well and has some decent customer service, they are sending updated boxes that eliminate the design flaw. That, to me, is an admission on their end that the product itself was flawed.
Third, piggyback is finicky at best. It always has been. Some companies and some platforms perform well with them. Some do not. The idea of manipulating a signal between the sensor and the Ecu is scary to me. Too many factors can change from day to day and minute to minute. Even in other platforms, when you are doing full upgrades, you will run a standalone Ecu instead of piggy back. Too many cooks in the kitchen theory.
First, you are assuming that people outside of the forums are buying them. That would be pure assumption. People who upgrade cars often sign up for forums. Rebellion would seem to be a company that gets a lot of their customers from forums and word of mouth. Word of mouth doesn't seem so great.
Yeah, I do assume that. And I've encountered at least two other C63S owners with the Rebellion tune at an AMG Private Lounge event, who don't post on MBW. So it does happen. EDIT: I don't even think they post on AMG PL.
Second, it appears that the problem is a design flaw. That would be a flaw with the unit and not an individuals car. Since rebellion seems to be working well and has some decent customer service, they are sending updated boxes that eliminate the design flaw. That, to me, is an admission on their end that the product itself was flawed.
Third, piggyback is finicky at best. It always has been. Some companies and some platforms perform well with them. Some do not. The idea of manipulating a signal between the sensor and the Ecu is scary to me. Too many factors can change from day to day and minute to minute. Even in other platforms, when you are doing full upgrades, you will run a standalone Ecu instead of piggy back. Too many cooks in the kitchen theory.
Absolutely agree it's a design flaw, and never debated ECU tunes being less than better than piggybacks. However, given that multiple tuners offer the same exact 'box', with the software being the only difference, I wouldn't place the blame on Rebellion (or VR, or whoever else uses it.) The underhood temps of the C63 likely get significantly hotter than other models that use the same box (with different software & harness) so likely operating outside of expected tolerances. The fact is, slightly over a year ago we as a M177/178 community were whining and clamoring for the aftermarket to provide a solution. These vendors brought forth a solution, based on what they knew worked before. Long-term results varied due to unexpected circumstances.. and that's where customer service comes into play.
I bought the piggy almost a year ago.. and got a brand-new, redesigned one that so far seems to have solved the heat soak issue. That's the whole point of this thread.. and really the only point. Beating a dead horse about ECU > Piggy when no one said it wasn't true is kind of silly.
I was one of the people that were pro piggyback for sure. I wanted mine to work very badly it just didn't. mine was a software not playing nicely with the 2016 ECU. I even did the entire install 2 times myself and had a shop do it the last time just in case I was missing something. that last time the car would not even start. Just stumbled, stalled, and lite up like a xmas tree!!
Velin as I said good luck with the new box. having a 2015 I think you have a better chance at success.
Vaelin, how is your new Rebellion piggyback going?
Is it faultless in everyday performance or is the tune dropping out under any circumstances?
Ive received my refund, however, the card they refunded it to had expired so I passed new account details to Rebellion but can honestly say their communications back to me now are below average now that a refund is being processed.
I did a search for there piggyback through their websit to see what module was pictured and if any changes were noted but could not find it advertised at all.
Looks like Ike it's not being offered anymore.
I did see that they are now offering a flash tune.
Now that Guilty's resolved his Dime issues, (I was on the verge of pulling the trigger on the Dime setup when I saw Guilty's early rants about them) I'm strongly considering going ***** out with Dime.. but I have a possible move out of the country coming in July so don't want to be dropping five digits on mods then having to sell it.
Going to enjoy the piggy tune until the summer until I decide if I'm moving to Singapore or staying here.
Now that Guilty's resolved his Dime issues, (I was on the verge of pulling the trigger on the Dime setup when I saw Guilty's early rants about them) I'm strongly considering going ***** out with Dime.. but I have a possible move out of the country coming in July so don't want to be dropping five digits on mods then having to sell it.
Going to enjoy the piggy tune until the summer until I decide if I'm moving to Singapore or staying here.
I went ***** out with them last week.
I get my car back Wednesday or Thursday. It's going to be BAD
I wish we had places like Dime or Weistec in Oz. One stop shop is what we need.
There's Brabus here Sanch, but unfortunately for you they're located interstate in Melbourne and another disadvantage with them even if you had them in Sydney is the costs of their upgrades is as painful as being hit by a charging bull
Don't worry though they'll be more local to Australia tuning options for the the AMG 4.0lt V8 and 205 series platform in time just like there are at the moment for the 204 platform and the M156, just give it time
Now that you've had a few months, of presumably warmer weather to test it in, how has everything been running with the tune?
Originally Posted by vaelin
Zero issues so far. *knock on wood*
Now that Guilty's resolved his Dime issues, (I was on the verge of pulling the trigger on the Dime setup when I saw Guilty's early rants about them) I'm strongly considering going ***** out with Dime.. but I have a possible move out of the country coming in July so don't want to be dropping five digits on mods then having to sell it.
Going to enjoy the piggy tune until the summer until I decide if I'm moving to Singapore or staying here.
Now that Guilty's resolved his Dime issues, (I was on the verge of pulling the trigger on the Dime setup when I saw Guilty's early rants about them) I'm strongly considering going ***** out with Dime.. but I have a possible move out of the country coming in July so don't want to be dropping five digits on mods then having to sell it.
Going to enjoy the piggy tune until the summer until I decide if I'm moving to Singapore or staying here.
I feel obligated to correct the record and update everyone as promised.
As everyone knows, I went ***** out with Dime but, unfortunately, I can't say that my experience has been pleasant.
Their cooling system failed 3 times and had to be replaced twice. Not to mention I don't see my car running any cooler, tranny wise.
I also just recently found out that they took my car to the dyno and manually adjusted the wastegates without my permission. That's how they managed 717whp and that's how they destroyed my first tranny. They lied about how much power my car was actually making by showing me a misleading dyno graph.
I was without my car for over 2 months due to their incompetence. Their cooling system wasn't pressured tested which caused an oil leak that caused the 2nd tranny to fail.
I also found out that when my first transmission blew up, they mounted a different customer's tranny in my car although they claimed it came from a salvage car.
Their tune, although very fast, was unreliable. 3rd gear slipped from 3k rpm to 7k rpm. 5th gear would switch to neutral instead of 6th under WOT.
Dime did have good intentions and did try to help me as best as they could. I know they tried and I was doing my best to give them as many chances as they needed. However, trying doesn't mean succeeding. Especially when the people trying are plain incompetent. (I apologize for the harsh truth.)
I'll also add that they offered a full refund for my troubles which I refused because I am not for sale.
After finally coming to the realization that nothing good was going to come out of Dime's tuning, I ended up going to a different tuner and my car is now running like a swiss clock. Finally. 613whp is my legitimate number on 91oct with the new tune.
It is unfortunately too hot to get accurate timeslips but I guess I don't really care at this point. I am little disgusted by everything that happened to me and I just want to press the start button and drive. If anyone wants to buy my car (23k miles), shoot an offer. It has everything.
I'll also add that since the new tune, I am able to walk on almost every car, including full bolt-ons GTRs on high boost.
I feel obligated to correct the record and update everyone as promised.
As everyone knows, I went ***** out with Dime but, unfortunately, I can't say that my experience has been pleasant.
Their cooling system failed 3 times and had to be replaced twice. Not to mention I don't see my car running any cooler, tranny wise.
I also just recently found out that they took my car to the dyno and manually adjusted the wastegates without my permission. That's how they managed 717whp and that's how they destroyed my first tranny. They lied about how much power my car was actually making by showing me a misleading dyno graph.
I was without my car for over 2 months due to their incompetence. Their cooling system wasn't pressured tested which caused an oil leak that caused the 2nd tranny to fail.
I also found out that when my first transmission blew up, they mounted a different customer's tranny in my car although they claimed it came from a salvage car.
Their tune, although very fast, was unreliable. 3rd gear slipped from 3k rpm to 7k rpm. 5th gear would switch to neutral instead of 6th under WOT.
Dime did have good intentions and did try to help me as best as they could. I know they tried and I was doing my best to give them as many chances as they needed. However, trying doesn't mean succeeding. Especially when the people trying are plain incompetent. (I apologize for the harsh truth.)
I'll also add that they offered a full refund for my troubles which I refused because I am not for sale.
After finally coming to the realization that nothing good was going to come out of Dime's tuning, I ended up going to a different tuner and my car is now running like a swiss clock. Finally. 613whp is my legitimate number on 91oct with the new tune.
It is unfortunately too hot to get accurate timeslips but I guess I don't really care at this point. I am little disgusted by everything that happened to me and I just want to press the start button and drive. If anyone wants to buy my car (23k miles), shoot an offer. It has everything.
I'll also add that since the new tune, I am able to walk on almost every car, including full bolt-ons GTRs on high boost.
Side track thread question... would love to see your car, any videos of this beast?
02-12-2017, 07:57 PM
