Discuss: M177/M178 OEM bolt-on turbo upgrades for C63S (from GT-R, GT-C, E63S)
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2017 Porsche 911 C4
Discuss: M177/M178 OEM bolt-on turbo upgrades for C63S (from GT-R, GT-C, E63S)
With all the new M177/M178 variants coming out like the AMG GTC, GTR, and E63S, has anyone looked into the technical specifications of these larger OEM turbochargers and exhaust manifolds?
If the E63S twin-scroll turbochargers and manifolds can bolt-on to the C63S without modification, it would make for a super simple OEM turbo swap and tune to make big power (not to mention, OEM reliability and pricing).
Are there any technical docs available that outline the differences between the M177/M178 turbocharger variants for the GTR, GTC, or E63S?
If the E63S twin-scroll turbochargers and manifolds can bolt-on to the C63S without modification, it would make for a super simple OEM turbo swap and tune to make big power (not to mention, OEM reliability and pricing).
Are there any technical docs available that outline the differences between the M177/M178 turbocharger variants for the GTR, GTC, or E63S?
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2017 c63s
With all the new M177/M178 variants coming out like the AMG GTC, GTR, and E63S, has anyone looked into the technical specifications of these larger OEM turbochargers and exhaust manifolds?
If the E63S twin-scroll turbochargers and manifolds can bolt-on to the C63S without modification, it would make for a super simple OEM turbo swap and tune to make big power (not to mention, OEM reliability and pricing).
Are there any technical docs available that outline the differences between the M177/M178 turbocharger variants for the GTR, GTC, or E63S?
If the E63S twin-scroll turbochargers and manifolds can bolt-on to the C63S without modification, it would make for a super simple OEM turbo swap and tune to make big power (not to mention, OEM reliability and pricing).
Are there any technical docs available that outline the differences between the M177/M178 turbocharger variants for the GTR, GTC, or E63S?
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2017 Porsche 911 C4
- Weistec's W.3 Turbo Upgrade is $9,999 + Core Charge (not listed on site)
- Eurocharged Turbo Upgrade is $9,999 + $7,500 Core Charge = $17,500
- RENNtech Stage I Turbo Upgrade is $11,960 + Core Charge
A pair of new E63S turbos and manifolds won't be anywhere near 10 grand, and you don't have to give away extremely valuable OEM turbos in the process.
I'm very curious to see if these really will be a direct bolt-on and what the OEM pricing will be once the parts pop up in EPC.
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Bolt-on OEM performance parts has never been an easy thing and are really discouraged. From a business standpoint, AMG wants your decision point to be the upgraded car and not whether you can get over by outfitting your car the same as the more expensive models. That is why there are availability problems and the ultimate "Mercedes tax" associated with items like this. That's where the aftermarket comes in. Don't hold your breath on this or be ready to pay through the nose.
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From: Austin, TX
2017 Porsche 911 C4
Bolt-on OEM performance parts has never been an easy thing and are really discouraged. From a business standpoint, AMG wants your decision point to be the upgraded car and not whether you can get over by outfitting your car the same as the more expensive models. That is why there are availability problems and the ultimate "Mercedes tax" associated with items like this. That's where the aftermarket comes in. Don't hold your breath on this or be ready to pay through the nose.
Back in my B5 S4 days with the 2.7T, everyone would upgrade their tiny K03 turbos to the larger K04's from the RS4 - direct bolt-on to the stock manifolds. With all the new variations of the M177 coming out, it would be odd if AMG went out of their way to make sure they can only be fitted to that specific variant. It would probably take greater effort and cost on their end to do this...
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2016 C63S Sedan
It's essentially the same engine with just with some internal upgrades and turbochargers - so I don't see any reason why they couldn't be bolted-on with, even if there's minor modification required. Obviously, AMG would rather you not, but that's why your factory warranty will be toast if you do.
Back in my B5 S4 days with the 2.7T, everyone would upgrade their tiny K03 turbos to the larger K04's from the RS4 - direct bolt-on to the stock manifolds. With all the new variations of the M177 coming out, it would be odd if AMG went out of their way to make sure they can only be fitted to that specific variant. It would probably take greater effort and cost on their end to do this...
Back in my B5 S4 days with the 2.7T, everyone would upgrade their tiny K03 turbos to the larger K04's from the RS4 - direct bolt-on to the stock manifolds. With all the new variations of the M177 coming out, it would be odd if AMG went out of their way to make sure they can only be fitted to that specific variant. It would probably take greater effort and cost on their end to do this...
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It's essentially the same engine with just with some internal upgrades and turbochargers - so I don't see any reason why they couldn't be bolted-on with, even if there's minor modification required. Obviously, AMG would rather you not, but that's why your factory warranty will be toast if you do.
Back in my B5 S4 days with the 2.7T, everyone would upgrade their tiny K03 turbos to the larger K04's from the RS4 - direct bolt-on to the stock manifolds. With all the new variations of the M177 coming out, it would be odd if AMG went out of their way to make sure they can only be fitted to that specific variant. It would probably take greater effort and cost on their end to do this...
Back in my B5 S4 days with the 2.7T, everyone would upgrade their tiny K03 turbos to the larger K04's from the RS4 - direct bolt-on to the stock manifolds. With all the new variations of the M177 coming out, it would be odd if AMG went out of their way to make sure they can only be fitted to that specific variant. It would probably take greater effort and cost on their end to do this...
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It's essentially the same engine with just with some internal upgrades and turbochargers - so I don't see any reason why they couldn't be bolted-on with, even if there's minor modification required. Obviously, AMG would rather you not, but that's why your factory warranty will be toast if you do.
Back in my B5 S4 days with the 2.7T, everyone would upgrade their tiny K03 turbos to the larger K04's from the RS4 - direct bolt-on to the stock manifolds. With all the new variations of the M177 coming out, it would be odd if AMG went out of their way to make sure they can only be fitted to that specific variant. It would probably take greater effort and cost on their end to do this...
Back in my B5 S4 days with the 2.7T, everyone would upgrade their tiny K03 turbos to the larger K04's from the RS4 - direct bolt-on to the stock manifolds. With all the new variations of the M177 coming out, it would be odd if AMG went out of their way to make sure they can only be fitted to that specific variant. It would probably take greater effort and cost on their end to do this...
And who is the supplier of AMG's turbos? No one went to the Audi parts department and ordered k04s. Then bought them from tuners that got them directly through BorgWarner.
It wasn't the "OEM"ness of the k04s that gave the car reliability; proper GT turbo's will outlast BW turbo's all day long. It was the fact that the 04s were just slightly larger than the stock 03s which meant that hp and tq stayed well within the 2.7t's limits. The draw to do the upgraded internals is to fool the dealership into thinking your turbo's are stock.
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Yes, but you still needed the inlets and proper supporting mods for it. It was a direct fit but wasn't just a swap of the turbos.
And who is the supplier of AMG's turbos? No one went to the Audi parts department and ordered k04s. Then bought them from tuners that got them directly through BorgWarner.
It wasn't the "OEM"ness of the k04s that gave the car reliability; proper GT turbo's will outlast BW turbo's all day long. It was the fact that the 04s were just slightly larger than the stock 03s which meant that hp and tq stayed well within the 2.7t's limits. The draw to do the upgraded internals is to fool the dealership into thinking your turbo's are stock.
And who is the supplier of AMG's turbos? No one went to the Audi parts department and ordered k04s. Then bought them from tuners that got them directly through BorgWarner.
It wasn't the "OEM"ness of the k04s that gave the car reliability; proper GT turbo's will outlast BW turbo's all day long. It was the fact that the 04s were just slightly larger than the stock 03s which meant that hp and tq stayed well within the 2.7t's limits. The draw to do the upgraded internals is to fool the dealership into thinking your turbo's are stock.
I had mine for over 12 years and had K03's, K04's, GT28RS's, Forced Performance GT28RS's, and finally a built 3.0L 034 Single Turbo kit before I pulled the plug on that platform. Talk about pouring money down the drain... never again, it was the most unreliable car imaginable (and I'm not even talking about blowing engines, it was the finicky aftermarket tuning and hardware that was garbage). The GT's and the associated tuning (I had EPL do all my builds and tunes) was so unreliable, I wished I never upgraded from K03's. K04's were far more reliable than any mild GT build, and that's because it used all off the shelf OEM components.But we're comparing an ancient 2.7t engine versus the M177 with the turbos tucked in the inside V. Not much intake plumbing needed on that end (as opposed to the 2.7t with the turbos hanging off the outside of each cylinder head) -- and every single aftermarket turbo upgrade for the M177 (whether is be from Renntech, Weistec, Eurocharged, etc.) only includes upgraded turbos without any other hardware (aside from ECU tuning)... they just bolt-in since they're modified OEM units.
As for who the turbo manufacture is, you can order replacement turbos directly from OEM MB resellers. C63S turbos run around $3500/each (not MSRP). BorgWarner makes all the turbos for modern MB's, just like Audi.
Last edited by AlexZTuned; Jan 14, 2017 at 03:06 PM.
