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Old 03-24-2018, 04:25 AM
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C63 amg esate
Disappointed

I took delivery of a new C63S a month ago, a bit disappointed with the switchable exhaust noise compared to others I’ve heard and it was certainty quieter than the standard system on my previous W205 C63 and since I had the rusty turbos replaced it has gone even worse, there is very little difference between on and off when engine is cold and no difference whatsoever when hot, throttle response is not as ‘sharp’ the car feels like it’s struggling for performance, I presume they did a software adjustment, before I get back to the dealers are there any experts on here that could explain what’s gone on and point me in the right direction.
Old 03-24-2018, 12:13 PM
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Most people who felt the car was "neutered" found it the car was in limp mode due to being low on battery. There is no indication on this, so you'd have to go to the dealer and have them scan the car to realize that.

Perhaps when they were servicing your car, the battery was run down?
Old 03-24-2018, 01:08 PM
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The car has only done 400 miles, it’s not run in yet so I don’t want to give the full beans, it went in for turbo replacement purely for cosmetic reasons, I’m beginning to wish I hadn’t had it done, without doubt it is certainly quieter and feels down on low revs power, I’m assuming if they did something to the software it was the very latest version.
Old 03-24-2018, 01:20 PM
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Some folks were reporting a neutered throttle response with the last 'exhaust' tune. Sounds like you may have been hit with that.
Old 03-24-2018, 01:45 PM
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You need to let the ECU adapt, it takes a 100 miles or so to fully adapt after a software update. The fact that you haven't even broken in your engine having only covered 400 miles is probably why it feels different (I assume you're keeping RPM's and engine load low). You need to let the ECU learn and adapt by doing WOT pulls, and then it'll feel great. Keep driving, break the engine in, and let the ECU re-adapt to your new driving style...which will be flooring it at every chance you get!
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Old 03-24-2018, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by AlexZTuned
You need to let the ECU adapt, it takes a 100 miles or so to fully adapt after a software update. The fact that you haven't even broken in your engine having only covered 400 miles is probably why it feels different (I assume you're keeping RPM's and engine load low). You need to let the ECU learn and adapt by doing WOT pulls, and then it'll feel great. Keep driving, break the engine in, and let the ECU re-adapt to your new driving style...which will be flooring it at every chance you get!
Exactly!!!

Complaining about loss in power after only 400 miles without ever going WOT is a bit pre-mature.
Old 03-24-2018, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by KJ
Exactly!!!

Complaining about loss in power after only 400 miles without ever going WOT is a bit pre-mature.
Yes you’re right and I fully agree, but it definitely feels different after the turbo change, as suggested I’ll wait for the ECU to adapt and take it from there and thank you guys for your response.

Old 03-24-2018, 05:13 PM
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hey Fordgt40 - i'm hoping it is an ECU / turbo run-in software safety measure that's temporarily holding the sound and power back. that said , when i picked my brand new c63s in feb , it was roaring like a t rex from the first engine start up when i toggled the exhaust valves through the button. there was no 100 mile calibration period on the valves. the throttle response is a different matter entirely.
. Hopefully it is temporary but the one thing i'd say is even when my engine is super cold , if i toggle the exhaust button , the valves always open and it is immediately louder. the engine though took a few hundred miles to open up a bit more. admittedly i've done 950 miles over the last 4 weeks but something doesnt sound right to me either based on what you're saying regarding the sound. the exhaust valves , i would expect, to be independent of any turbo run-in type software tweaks. the throttle response i would expect to be muted for at least 100-200 miles.
Old 03-24-2018, 06:18 PM
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The new one has always been quieter than my previous non perf exhaust W205 C63 from day day one, which was hilariously loud on cold start up but it’s definitely quieter now, there is a difference on and off when cold but non at all when hot in comfort, when I hear you saying yours is ‘roaring like a t rex’, mine is more like a purring lion, I was expecting more from the perf exhaust to be honest from day one.
Old 03-24-2018, 11:22 PM
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I'm assuming you are putting the car in S+ mode at least. If you don't hear a HUGE change in sound, something is wrong.
Old 03-25-2018, 01:51 AM
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Find a road with few cars, select the sport+ mode and try to speed up then manually use paddle shifter to perform downshiftings, if you don't hear backfire/crackle sound, then something is definitely wrong
Old 03-25-2018, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by g2lujinn
Find a road with few cars, select the sport+ mode and try to speed up then manually use paddle shifter to perform downshiftings, if you don't hear backfire/crackle sound, then something is definitely wrong
It will pop and bang on the overrun in sport plus exactly the same as my old non perf one, same volume, same sound, no difference whatsoever, I expected more after reading other people’s reports on this system, it’s the fact that it doesn’t make the slightest difference in comfort mode on tick-over which suggests to me something is not right, it might change with use, I’ve also noticed there is a slight rattle from the rear at about 2000 revs when stationary, I’ve been in touch with the dealer and I’m waiting for their response.
Old 03-25-2018, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Fordgt40


It will pop and bang on the overrun in sport plus exactly the same as my old non perf one, same volume, same sound, no difference whatsoever, I expected more after reading other people’s reports on this system, it’s the fact that it doesn’t make the slightest difference in comfort mode on tick-over which suggests to me something is not right, it might change with use, I’ve also noticed there is a slight rattle from the rear at about 2000 revs when stationary, I’ve been in touch with the dealer and I’m waiting for their response.
The snap, crackle, and pops overrun is only programmed in Sport+ and Race mode. Comfort mode will not allow for overrun (since that’s the “quiet and civilized” mode). The biggest difference before and after the update is just the number/frequency of pops you get when revving above 4k rpm or so when stationary or when under load and you let off the gas at higher rpm (build full boost then abruptly let off like you are trying to pop a blow off valve). Pre software update I would get 2 or so pops at most, and not all the time. Post software update, you get 3-4 well defined bangs, and it’s much more frequent.

After I had the update done at the dealership (which had no idea it was even available), they couldn’t believe the difference in overrun. It’s definitey a big change compared to before... so I don’t really understand what you were expecting? You’re not even supposed to go over 4500 rpm during break in, which is where the sweet spot is for the pops... so maybe you should break your engine in, adapt the ECU, so you can go WOT and then report back?

If you get 4 rapid pops when neutral revving at high rpm, then you’re updated.

If you think it’s still too quiet, lower the center armrest section of the rear seat (or even just fold down one of the rear seats), and you’ll increase the interior volume by a good 10-15%. I always drive with the rear center armrest section down.

Last edited by AlexZTuned; 03-25-2018 at 09:04 AM.
Old 03-25-2018, 10:44 AM
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Couple of things spring to mind, one, I assume the valves open when activated even in comfort mode which should make a difference and second I fully understand the running in procedure as I’ve built race engines in the past including the one one in my present GT40, oil changed after Dyno run, but what I don’t understand is the fact that when my son bought his new Ferrari 488, the dealer told him it could be used in a spirited manner from day one, which I wouldn’t totally agree with but it’s not done it any harm, he took it for a track day at Spa race circuit 2 days after delivery and that was last August.
Old 03-25-2018, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Fordgt40
Couple of things spring to mind, one, I assume the valves open when activated even in comfort mode which should make a difference and second I fully understand the running in procedure as I’ve built race engines in the past including the one one in my present GT40, oil changed after Dyno run, but what I don’t understand is the fact that when my son bought his new Ferrari 488, the dealer told him it could be used in a spirited manner from day one, which I wouldn’t totally agree with but it’s not done it any harm, he took it for a track day at Spa race circuit 2 days after delivery and that was last August.
The valves work regardless of what drive setting you’re in. You should be able to hear the exhaust get louder when you push the button even in comfort. But keep in mind that in comfort mode, the idle RPM is lower than in Sport+ and Race (idle rpm increases by about 200). So when you switch the exhaust button on, it’s a lot more pronounced in those modes because it’s already idling higher.

Also, pushing the exhaust button does not mean the valves are open 100%. MB programmed it so that the valves are only partially open at idle with the exhaust button on (for noise regulation). The valves open dynamically based on engine load, rpm, etc... if you floor it, the valves will open 100%. But part throttle and even idle, the valves are only open partially. There is an aftermarket module that can force the valves open 100% all the time, and it makes a huge difference at idle and lower rpms (though there won’t be any difference in sound on the top end since the valves are completely open at higher rpm with stock programming).

As for break-in procedure, there should have been a sticker on the top driver side of the windshield on delivery with instructions. For 1000 miles of break-in, do not exceed 4500 rpm, do not put the engine under high load (full boost), and do not exceed 85 MPH. This is recommended by AMG because the e-diff needs the fluid changed out at 1850 miles, and romping on it can destroy the diff if the fluid hasn’t been swapped out after break-in. Maybe your sons 488 is already broken in from the factory? I don’t have too many Ferrari’s in my garage, so I can’t exactly speak from experience!

Here’s a pic of the stickers from my Coupe for reference:



Last edited by AlexZTuned; 03-25-2018 at 01:20 PM.
Old 03-25-2018, 02:21 PM
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No sticker on my windscreen and I wasn’t told to run it in, I had to ask and I also read it in the manual.
Old 03-25-2018, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Fordgt40
No sticker on my windscreen and I wasn’t told to run it in, I had to ask and I also read it in the manual.
Pretty much every performance engine needs a break-in period, this is common across all brands. Some people follow it, others don’t care (they’re probably on a lease anyway). Personally, I bought my Coupe outright, so I followed the break-in period... I’d rather not have oil consumption issues at 20k miles because I couldn’t control my right foot for a thousand miles.

Just out of curiosity, I googled the break-in for a 488 GTB and it says in the owners manual: "avoid exceeding 5,000 rpm for the first 1000 km (620 miles)" (in "About your vehicle" chapter, there is a "running-in" paragraph in the "driving the vehicle" part).
Old 03-25-2018, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by AlexZTuned


Pretty much every performance engine needs a break-in period, this is common across all brands. Some people follow it, others don’t care (they’re probably on a lease anyway). Personally, I bought my Coupe outright, so I followed the break-in period... I’d rather not have oil consumption issues at 20k miles because I couldn’t control my right foot for a thousand miles.

Just out of curiosity, I googled the break-in for a 488 GTB and it says in the owners manual: "avoid exceeding 5,000 rpm for the first 1000 km (620 miles)" (in "About your vehicle" chapter, there is a "running-in" paragraph in the "driving the vehicle" part).
I’m 100% with you on that, I also pay for my cars with hard earned cash, no finance, as does my son so the question was asked at the Ferrari dealership and they said no it didn’t need breaking in......he never reads the manual.


Old 03-26-2018, 07:28 AM
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I would suggest that unless you are manually shifting an/or doing lots of kickdowns, it is really really hard to overly-abuse the engine itself. (Not withstanding other parts of the vehicle may unfortunately not cope so well such as the transmission).
During my run-in with this car, at mileage of under 200 miles, in auto mode the engine would always short shift at 2.5k to 3k max even if i gave the throttle a bit too much input.
at around 500 miles, it would let me have up to 3k revs.
At 900 miles it lets me go up to 4k now.
I've been driving in mainly comfort mode. Sport and sport plus a tiny bit only on the highway in short periods to allow the revs to go up to 3k and then around 750 miles in to briefly to go 4k for a few seconds. Comfort mode just doesnt let me do that. But even in sport and sport plus, it seems like the ECU tackles any potential abuse of run-in conditions by simply shifting up when it needs to.

The only times i used manual mode was in the snow with the summer tyres and the ecu wouldnt give me the early upshifts i was seeking.

The above ecu shifting is very consistent with the gla 45 that i had run in a year and a half ago. No matter which mode i drove it in, in auto shift mode, the vehicle would shift very very early always, and then would gradually shift higher as i got towards around 800 miles. It would then go up to 4k sometimes. After 1k miles, it would just run to 6k all the time.

Ignoring properly running in rear differentials, transmission parts, brakes etc , i think the ECU does a great job of protecting the engine itself.
Old 03-26-2018, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Fordgt40


It will pop and bang on the overrun in sport plus exactly the same as my old non perf one, same volume, same sound, no difference whatsoever, I expected more after reading other people’s reports on this system, it’s the fact that it doesn’t make the slightest difference in comfort mode on tick-over which suggests to me something is not right, it might change with use, I’ve also noticed there is a slight rattle from the rear at about 2000 revs when stationary, I’ve been in touch with the dealer and I’m waiting for their response.
I had a non performance exhaust 2017 c63s coupe for 3 days prior to taking delivery of my current 2017 c63s coupe with performance exhaust and when the non PE car was in sports+ mode the exhaust sounds were very similar in terms of the overrun "pops and bangs". I am not sure if my current car has had the updated software as it was manufactured in September of 2016. Some days the pops seem loud and other not so much. I am not sure if it is worth taking the chance on having the software update(if is does not already have it) because I hear some people say it makes their cars much better while other say it had negative effects.

*I would have them check voltages because that is an issue I and others have had and the dealership misdiagnosed it and had to take it to my personal mechanic who figured out and fixed the issue. Even after I told the MB service department the issue with the voltages they did not seem to understand. Basically the voltages were off by juts enough to cause the car to go into a sort of limp mode that affected the power in a very noticeable way. I really did not pay.
to how it affected the exhaust note when this was happening. I know of 4 people that have gone to my mechanic in West Los Angeles to have this issue fixed.
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Old 03-26-2018, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by KJ
Most people who felt the car was "neutered" found it the car was in limp mode due to being low on battery. There is no indication on this, so you'd have to go to the dealer and have them scan the car to realize that.

Perhaps when they were servicing your car, the battery was run down?
There is actually an indication for this. Go to Dynamic Select Menu-> Engine Data. Look if you are car is producing full power. If it is in limp mode, it will make around 250hp, in which case, it would explain you finding the car slow.
Old 03-26-2018, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by munis
There is actually an indication for this. Go to Dynamic Select Menu-> Engine Data. Look if you are car is producing full power. If it is in limp mode, it will make around 250hp, in which case, it would explain you finding the car slow.
Thanks, tried that but because I’m still running in I can’t give it the full beans, it still indicated 495 ish though so it looks like it’s giving full power and it’s me expecting too much, also I think it’s because throttle doesn’t go to the floor gearbox won’t kick down and I’m comparing it with my previous one.
Old 03-26-2018, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Fordgt40


Thanks, tried that but because I’m still running in I can’t give it the full beans, it still indicated 495 ish though so it looks like it’s giving full power and it’s me expecting too much, also I think it’s because throttle doesn’t go to the floor gearbox won’t kick down and I’m comparing it with my previous one.
Also check if the TRQ figures matches the factory advertised numbers. My one at WOT after 4th gear shows the factory advertised numbers, 362hp and 386 lbft torque. When I had my limp mode. HP was stuck at 250 and trq would never cross 200. Obviously these command engine data numbers are not fully accurate. It plots it from a pre programmed graph. But it serves as a fantastic indicator if everything is running Aokay with the engine.
Old 03-26-2018, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by munis
Also check if the TRQ figures matches the factory advertised numbers. My one at WOT after 4th gear shows the factory advertised numbers, 362hp and 386 lbft torque. When I had my limp mode. HP was stuck at 250 and trq would never cross 200. Obviously these command engine data numbers are not fully accurate. It plots it from a pre programmed graph. But it serves as a fantastic indicator if everything is running Aokay with the engine.
I think l’m going to wait until engine is fully run in, I think only then will the figures indicated be something to compare to.
Old 03-26-2018, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Fordgt40


Thanks, tried that but because I’m still running in I can’t give it the full beans, it still indicated 495 ish though so it looks like it’s giving full power and it’s me expecting too much, also I think it’s because throttle doesn’t go to the floor gearbox won’t kick down and I’m comparing it with my previous one.
Sounds like you should wait for 1000 miles at least then give it the full frank and beans, and if it still feels like it's stuck in a zipper lol, take it in to get serviced. I wouldn't launch either until 1875 and after the diff. fluid change service.


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