Drivetrain Grenades
04-26-2018, 07:47 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Drivetrain Grenades
Have any of you who have modified your cars for power had any part failures yet? I certainly haven't seen any patterns (a la Nissan GTR transmission) and really haven't heard of any isolated incidents. I'm just curious if we really do have a super sturdy platform on our hands that is overbuilt for the factory output.
Thanks for any input in advance
Cheers
Thanks for any input in advance
Cheers
04-26-2018, 11:11 PM
#2
Super Member
The engine is definitely overbuilt, since they use the same internals for many other models that are putting out much higher horsepower!
04-26-2018, 11:20 PM
#3
MBWorld Fanatic!
04-27-2018, 01:36 AM
#4
Senior Member
My only concern is how high the compression ratio is in the C63S .... It's around 10.5 to 1 and that really high if you want to throw more boost at it and you'll need some big upgrades to support that level.....ie: fuel , better intercooling and Its also why tunes only get 60 hp because your bordering on serious problems .If you look at the new E63S they actually lowered the compression ratio considerably and ran better turbo's and more boost ....AMG did that for a reason . I think in time ,f not already, we will see some tuners grenade these motors trying to push more boost with out the support to handle it
04-27-2018, 11:07 AM
#5
Senior Member
My only concern is how high the compression ratio is in the C63S .... It's around 10.5 to 1 and that really high if you want to throw more boost at it and you'll need some big upgrades to support that level.....ie: fuel , better intercooling and Its also why tunes only get 60 hp because your bordering on serious problems .If you look at the new E63S they actually lowered the compression ratio considerably and ran better turbo's and more boost ....AMG did that for a reason . I think in time ,f not already, we will see some tuners grenade these motors trying to push more boost with out the support to handle it
04-27-2018, 11:15 AM
#6
MBWorld Fanatic!
My only concern is how high the compression ratio is in the C63S .... It's around 10.5 to 1 and that really high if you want to throw more boost at it and you'll need some big upgrades to support that level.....ie: fuel , better intercooling and Its also why tunes only get 60 hp because your bordering on serious problems .If you look at the new E63S they actually lowered the compression ratio considerably and ran better turbo's and more boost ....AMG did that for a reason . I think in time ,f not already, we will see some tuners grenade these motors trying to push more boost with out the support to handle it
Stock fueling has shown it can already support pretty insane numbers, and no one that I know of has touched the intercoolers after uograding turbos. We have factory air to water intercoolers and they work extremely well keeping intake air temps down.
Yes, the E63S has a twin-scroll setup with larger twin-scroll turbos (in larger housings) and twin-scroll manifolds, while we get a smaller single-scroll setup on the C63S. Tune-only E63S’s are seeing upwards of 700 hp TO THE WHEELS! That’s not because of modified pistons or changed compression that it can hit those numbers... it’s the turbos.
There are several folks that have taken their bone stock C63S engines and have pushed it to 700whp and beyond. The problem isn’t this engine. It was designed for boost, and AMG implied when the M177 was first released that it can hold 700-800 hp stock (Chris Harris was prying for this info).
The limiting factor on this platform, which isn’t anything new, is the transmission. It’s unofficially rated at 1000nm (738 ft-lbs torque), so when you exceed that torque limit for an extended period of time, the trans may start to slip and give up. The same deal with DCTs when you throw too much torque at it. There are kits to build the trans that can hold the power for those crazy enough to push over 700 ft-lbs of torque to the rear wheels.
I’m at around 650 torque at the crank and that was a major struggle for traction on my stock tires. Had to upgrade to 305’s to get that power down.
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04-27-2018, 12:53 PM
#7
Junior Member
So in theory the e63s manifold and turbo will bolt straight up to the m177. Considering for 2019 they will be releasing the new 9 speed it may be safe to assume that it will hold more power, correct me if I am wrong. POWAAA
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04-27-2018, 02:04 PM
#8
MBWorld Fanatic!
From a reliability standpoint, we've seen almost zero failures at the shop that weren't owner caused (hydrolock, crash damage, etc). I'd say it's quite a reliable platform so far, but a tune isn't going to expose dramatic weakness in the cars. Adding 15-20% more HP doesn't usually damage anything on any car.
04-27-2018, 04:25 PM
#9
Junior Member
Yes they mount up the same. The 9 speed is already in the 2018 E/S cars.
From a reliability standpoint, we've seen almost zero failures at the shop that weren't owner caused (hydrolock, crash damage, etc). I'd say it's quite a reliable platform so far, but a tune isn't going to expose dramatic weakness in the cars. Adding 15-20% more HP doesn't usually damage anything on any car.
From a reliability standpoint, we've seen almost zero failures at the shop that weren't owner caused (hydrolock, crash damage, etc). I'd say it's quite a reliable platform so far, but a tune isn't going to expose dramatic weakness in the cars. Adding 15-20% more HP doesn't usually damage anything on any car.
04-27-2018, 04:44 PM
#10
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Yes they mount up the same. The 9 speed is already in the 2018 E/S cars.
From a reliability standpoint, we've seen almost zero failures at the shop that weren't owner caused (hydrolock, crash damage, etc). I'd say it's quite a reliable platform so far, but a tune isn't going to expose dramatic weakness in the cars. Adding 15-20% more HP doesn't usually damage anything on any car.
From a reliability standpoint, we've seen almost zero failures at the shop that weren't owner caused (hydrolock, crash damage, etc). I'd say it's quite a reliable platform so far, but a tune isn't going to expose dramatic weakness in the cars. Adding 15-20% more HP doesn't usually damage anything on any car.
This is more of the focus of the thread ... I was just curious if anyone has had/heard of failures after modding the car. I come from the world of Subaru where the engines consistently have ringland failure and there were very well documented power limitations of the platform.
04-27-2018, 10:01 PM
#11
I recall a guy who claimed to had gone through multiple transmissions and blamed it on the tune. Was it Guilty? Hes banned and moved on to a different project I think.
04-30-2018, 12:20 PM
#14
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19 E63s, 23 M3 compX, B9 SQ5
No idea on what this motors limit is but there are a bunch of M177 motors with upgraded turbos pushing well over 650-700WHP. I wouldn't worry about the motor as much as I would the Trans holding up. Upgraded clutch packs at upgraded turbo level seems like a proactive approach. Also there are way too many 9G transmission failures on the E63S currently, I'd be worried about the reliability of that trans till they work out the bugs. The 7 speed MCT has been improved to its best iteration over the time.
