Luis Tellechea

well in the real world (not a controlled environment), you start off stopped with no air flowing, accelerate and suck in heat soaked air. not until your moving does the air flow cooler.

have them close the hood start the run and then turn on the fan midway with a closed hood and see what #'s they get.

looks like they may have dynoed with the hood open and air blowing on top

I would like to see them run the CAI without a tune to compare vs stock.

GuardianVA

You hit on it in talking about rise in temp passing through the turbos. Yes, the turbo will heat it up, but lower ambient air temp entering will still result in lower air temps exiting the turbo, even pre-intercooler. Depending on a variety of factors, there is a linear increase or decrease in inlet air temp to compressor outlet temp, and the outlet temp will be about a 1 to 5% higher than the air coming into the compressor side (depending on where in it's efficiency range the turbo is at that time).

BMS has had good success with creating gains with their intakes across the various platforms they have made them for. This design looks like it will draw in hotter air that the stock intake, especially when stopped, but the overall increase in intake volume will probably help offset any losses from heat soaking.

skim7x

Yeah this is definitely not the first intake they have designed / tested for their tunes across many many platforms... If they say this is adequate / optimal, i believe them. And like I said, we went through this exact same (looooong) debate on the n54 forums and by the end of it ,everyone had a DCI...

rekrul

ezatnova

skim7x

^ this

ALL YOUR TUNES ARE BELONG TO BMS

rekrul

GuardianVA

Really, that's the bulk of what you are paying for with the Dinan (most Dinan products actually): the warranty. At one time, there was one big difference between the JB and the Dinan though, which was the quality of components. During the first few years of the Dinantronics tuner being on the market, if you put them side by side, the JB1/4 used much cheaper, lower quality components. The Dinan connectors were nice, better quality plastic, the wiring was thicker and higher end. One issue that BMS regularly had with their JB3&4 on the BMW N55 version was that the wire coating would actually crack and the connector would sometimes break where the boost solenoid connector attached. This happened after it was exposed to the high heat for an extended period of time. Dinan never had the same issue. Now, the JB4 component quality on the harness is just as good, if not better than, the Dinan. In the end, you are paying a fraction of the cost for the JB, and BMS is usually good at taking care of their customers. Plus, the performance and other features from the JB is much better than the Dinan, and that is really what most people are after.

achi 3.0

If the quallity is like the JB4 for the M4 i am happy with it.

I hope that also the functions like exhaust valve control, downpipe Cel delete etc will be available in the JB4 for the C63.
Could somebody say how long it will take to be on the market. I need a tune and i am thinking about waiting of the JB4 or an ECU tune.

notabenex

I asked and they say within a month so I am waiting

gOt BoOsT

skim7x

Jon@BMS, think we could get an intake like this instead? 😛

Dieseldan9

iTrader: (1)

Do you think with that much piping it might affect turbo lag?

Not saying it would make a massive difference and the gain of cold air might out weigh the turbo lag

skim7x

No, you're right... that much piping will definitely increase flow resistance, depending on the diameter as well...

C3504matic

and suck up a ton of water in heavy downpours

gOt BoOsT

Bump! Any updates?

jatt143

looks like still testing phase? they did another dyno yesterday

gOt BoOsT

gOt BoOsT

skim7x

I'm sure they have options for 91/93 oct, e85, and stage 1 and stage 2 boltons... Gotta love map switching 😁

GuardianVA

Too bad that isn't possible with a JB4. It can't control timing; doesn't have that capability

gOt BoOsT

GuardianVA

I followed what you meant. I noticed that dip in the powerband too. Based on the log, it looks like the AFR might have been a little leaner than the ECU liked. Even on E30, it actually looks too lean for a good part of the power band (AFR doesn't look to drop below 15 until ~5200 RPM). That lean out is probably why the timing is so much lower in that second log. I'd be curious to see what the average ignition (ignition correction) was on those logs. We're also only able to see timing on one cylinder, so there could be timing corrections on the other cylinders, but there's no corresponding changes to boost, trim, or AFR, so I'm not sure. My point was that if those early dips are based purely on timing being pulled, then BMS can't fix that issue directly with the JB4, since the JB4 can't control timing. There are work-arounds to indirectly play with timing to a small degree (fuel trim, boost, IAT), and the JB4 can be setup to use those factors, but the JB4 can't make adjustments to timing itself.

There are user adjustable parameters on the JB4, like fuel/afr bias and duty bias. As long as the trims can be kept below max, the user can adjust the targets accordingly. There are other user adjustable parameters too, such as max boost in the lower gears and PID.

gOt BoOsT

GuardianVA

At its most basic level, yes, the JB4 only adjusts boost and fuel trim. JB4 has always relied on the stock knock sensor to "advance" timing, which only occurs when the ECU is seeing the need for timing correction (essentially pre-detonation/knock occurring). It generally works, and they have thousands of customers over the years that have had no issues.

I was basing what I said about that pull on the logs they posted at the beginning of the thread, under the dyno plots. They list that they were using E30, and the pull with the intake installed looked like it was about 15-16 AFR for most of the run, tapering down to 12-13 by redline. E30 on direct injection should be under 15 once the boost is up, and taper down, like it did, to the around 13-upper 12s. The run was too lean for the first 2/3 of the pull, and that caused timing to be pulled, hence those early dips in the dyno plots. It will just take some tweaking with early fuel trim and those dips will smooth out. As BMS has indicated, it's all still undergoing testing, so I'm sure it will be worked out by release time. I'm looking forward to the intake being released for the c43 and c63.