Noob tuning question
01-21-2019, 02:23 PM
#1
Super Member
Thread Starter
Noob tuning question
I’m not really into tuning my cars since I more care about reliability and maintaining manufacturer’s warranties, but I saw a site that was saying a “stage 1” tune entails nothing more than reprogramming the car in software to produce almost 100hp more on a w205 c63s...?!?! Is this really possible without adding parts or modifying the vehicle in any way? For those who have done it, how’s the short and long-term reliability and does it void any warranties or create any other problems in any other way? Thanks in advance.
01-21-2019, 02:57 PM
#2
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2020 Huracan EVO AWD - 2022 GLE 63 S Coupe - 2023 C63 S Coupe -
I've always steered clear and have been apprehensive of tunes. Especially on a new car right out of the oven. Give it some time first, and get use to the car as it was intended from the factory. If you need more - then by all means. I've heard so many conflicting stories on warranty, which is another reason I don't want to do it. You are going to get as many split opinions on this subject and which tuner to use, as you did on performance seats vs. the non. At the end of the day - it's all preference with proper research.
01-21-2019, 03:17 PM
#3
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I've always steered clear and have been apprehensive of tunes. Especially on a new car right out of the oven. Give it some time first, and get use to the car as it was intended from the factory. If you need more - then by all means. I've heard so many conflicting stories on warranty, which is another reason I don't want to do it. You are going to get as many split opinions on this subject and which tuner to use, as you did on performance seats vs. the non. At the end of the day - it's all preference with proper research.
All this would only be considered well after the break-in period, of course, if at all...
01-21-2019, 03:36 PM
#4
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2020 Huracan EVO AWD - 2022 GLE 63 S Coupe - 2023 C63 S Coupe -
It's just that one tuner in particular mentions that, after their reprogramming is done, there is no way for Mercedes/Dealership to determine if any modifications have been made...100HP increase with no additional modifications within a quick 1-hour visit? Sounds too good to be true...?
01-21-2019, 03:49 PM
#5
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It’s not too good to be true. Turbochargers make it extremely easy to add power with just a software tune. Add the fact that we’re working with a 4 liter V8, and you have a recipe for huge gains on stage 1 only.
FYI - a lot of tuners quote “over 100 hp” increase, but many tuners will take Mercedes stock 503 HP figure and subtract that from the stage 1 power level (almost always over 600 hp). But the truth is, the C63S makes closer to 530ish HP stock, so realistically you’re only seeing about a 70-85 HP increase with a tune only.
Still very impressive gains nonetheless! It’s a night and day difference, you can feel that added torque and HP everywhere.
FYI - a lot of tuners quote “over 100 hp” increase, but many tuners will take Mercedes stock 503 HP figure and subtract that from the stage 1 power level (almost always over 600 hp). But the truth is, the C63S makes closer to 530ish HP stock, so realistically you’re only seeing about a 70-85 HP increase with a tune only.
Still very impressive gains nonetheless! It’s a night and day difference, you can feel that added torque and HP everywhere.
01-21-2019, 03:55 PM
#6
Super Member
Thread Starter
It’s not too good to be true. Turbochargers make it extremely easy to add power with just a software tune. Add the fact that we’re working with a 4 liter V8, and you have a recipe for huge gains on stage 1 only.
FYI - a lot of tuners quote “over 100 hp” increase, but many tuners will take Mercedes stock 503 HP figure and subtract that from the stage 1 power level (almost always over 600 hp). But the truth is, the C63S makes closer to 530ish HP stock, so realistically you’re only seeing about a 70-85 HP increase with a tune only.
Still very impressive gains nonetheless! It’s a night and day difference, you can feel that added torque and HP everywhere.
FYI - a lot of tuners quote “over 100 hp” increase, but many tuners will take Mercedes stock 503 HP figure and subtract that from the stage 1 power level (almost always over 600 hp). But the truth is, the C63S makes closer to 530ish HP stock, so realistically you’re only seeing about a 70-85 HP increase with a tune only.
Still very impressive gains nonetheless! It’s a night and day difference, you can feel that added torque and HP everywhere.
Can you comment on reliability, warranty conflicts, and who you used?
Was it really as simple as taking a computer to the car for a few minutes and that's it?
01-21-2019, 05:04 PM
#7
Senior Member
This is exactly what I've heard too...did you tune your C63S? Did you wait to do it or do it right after break-in?
Can you comment on reliability, warranty conflicts, and who you used?
Was it really as simple as taking a computer to the car for a few minutes and that's it?
Can you comment on reliability, warranty conflicts, and who you used?
Was it really as simple as taking a computer to the car for a few minutes and that's it?
And yes a ecu flash tune takes about an hour to 90 mins to install.. Dinan piggyback takes 3-4hrs to hook up to sensors to trick the ecu instead of rewriting part of it... But the Dinan piggyback comes with a matching factory warranty the ecu flashes do not. I have had a few Dinan ecu flashes on bmw's with no issues but they didn't crack the ecu's code to flash mercs so they just came out with the piggyback for now.
Personally I plan on keeping this car awhile so I am just going to swap out the tires for Michelin ps4s which seem to have the best rating in both dry and wet weather. If I need more power after then I will think about a tune.
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01-21-2019, 05:21 PM
#8
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Thread Starter
More importantly than the tune are the tires.. you can't fully use the power it already has stock until you get better tires. Then get a tune if you feel you need more power.. That won't void your warranty and make you a lot quicker.. I always think about usable power.. If you have 610hp and can't use it because you can't hook up then what good is it.
And yes a ecu flash tune takes about an hour to 90 mins to install.. Dinan piggyback takes 3-4hrs to hook up to sensors to trick the ecu instead of rewriting part of it... But the Dinan piggyback comes with a matching factory warranty the ecu flashes do not. I have had a few Dinan ecu flashes on bmw's with no issues but they didn't crack the ecu's code to flash mercs so they just came out with the piggyback for now.
Personally I plan on keeping this car awhile so I am just going to swap out the tires for Michelin ps4s which seem to have the best rating in both dry and wet weather. If I need more power after then I will think about a tune.
And yes a ecu flash tune takes about an hour to 90 mins to install.. Dinan piggyback takes 3-4hrs to hook up to sensors to trick the ecu instead of rewriting part of it... But the Dinan piggyback comes with a matching factory warranty the ecu flashes do not. I have had a few Dinan ecu flashes on bmw's with no issues but they didn't crack the ecu's code to flash mercs so they just came out with the piggyback for now.
Personally I plan on keeping this car awhile so I am just going to swap out the tires for Michelin ps4s which seem to have the best rating in both dry and wet weather. If I need more power after then I will think about a tune.
I'm curious regarding an "ecu flash tune" whether there is actually *any* risk of voiding the warranty? Like what is the risk, if at all? Is there a chance the tuner can brick the car or make it so that I have to take it into the dealer to get fixed for any reason? Is this an idiot-proof process?
Probably not interested in doing anything at the onset, but just want to learn a bit in the process...
01-21-2019, 05:32 PM
#9
Senior Member
I don't think i'll ever be using the power for trying to spin the tires off the line, nor taking my car on a track so although better tires are always useful, my thinking is just have better low-end grunt, get up to speed quicker, and maybe the spirited green-light sprint from time to time.
I'm curious regarding an "ecu flash tune" whether there is actually *any* risk of voiding the warranty? Like what is the risk, if at all? Is there a chance the tuner can brick the car or make it so that I have to take it into the dealer to get fixed for any reason? Is this an idiot-proof process?
Probably not interested in doing anything at the onset, but just want to learn a bit in the process...
I'm curious regarding an "ecu flash tune" whether there is actually *any* risk of voiding the warranty? Like what is the risk, if at all? Is there a chance the tuner can brick the car or make it so that I have to take it into the dealer to get fixed for any reason? Is this an idiot-proof process?
Probably not interested in doing anything at the onset, but just want to learn a bit in the process...
01-21-2019, 05:41 PM
#10
Super Member
Thread Starter
That said, for anyone who has done these kinds of tunes, I'm very curious how it works on our vehicles, etc. Thanks
01-21-2019, 07:59 PM
#11
Senior Member
I'm not disagreeing with you that better tires will help, I'm just saying I will almost never run into a situation where I will break the tires loose...either way, I'm sure I will naturally switch to PSSs when the first set wears out, if I don't end up switching earlier.
01-21-2019, 08:16 PM
#12
MBWorld Fanatic!
Oh I agree wholeheartedly, in general. It's just that one tuner in particular mentions that, after their reprogramming is done, there is no way for Mercedes/Dealership to determine if any modifications have been made...100HP increase with no additional modifications within a quick 1-hour visit? Sounds too good to be true...?
All this would only be considered well after the break-in period, of course, if at all...
All this would only be considered well after the break-in period, of course, if at all...
When the tuner is done you get 600/610 flywheel Hp.
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mrguitar (01-22-2019)
01-21-2019, 08:18 PM
#13
MBWorld Fanatic!
I don't think i'll ever be using the power for trying to spin the tires off the line, nor taking my car on a track so although better tires are always useful, my thinking is just have better low-end grunt, get up to speed quicker, and maybe the spirited green-light sprint from time to time.
I'm curious regarding an "ecu flash tune" whether there is actually *any* risk of voiding the warranty? Like what is the risk, if at all? Is there a chance the tuner can brick the car or make it so that I have to take it into the dealer to get fixed for any reason? Is this an idiot-proof process?
Probably not interested in doing anything at the onset, but just want to learn a bit in the process...
I'm curious regarding an "ecu flash tune" whether there is actually *any* risk of voiding the warranty? Like what is the risk, if at all? Is there a chance the tuner can brick the car or make it so that I have to take it into the dealer to get fixed for any reason? Is this an idiot-proof process?
Probably not interested in doing anything at the onset, but just want to learn a bit in the process...
I have the Dinan tune (piggyback) and love it. Dinan is the only tuner that offers a true factory-matching warranty, and they've been around longer than almost any other tuner (1979!). If something happens with your car as a result of their tune and Mercedes doesn't cover it, they'll cover it for you. To be honest, a Stage 1 tune is very safe and reliable for this engine - it's not being stressed, so I wouldn't worry much about anything catastrophic happening - it's just nice to have the peace of mind in case anything happens.
I'm actually putting my Dinan tune up for sale if you're interested - I'm installing bigger turbos and need to go the custom tune route.
01-21-2019, 10:30 PM
#14
If you're not breaking loose on the stock tires, then you're not coming even close to using the stock 503 hp.
Upgrade to better tires like others said & stomp the pedal to the floor for your speed wants.
If that's not enough, then consider stage 1 tune aka ecu tune.
Option 1: Piggyback ( the dianian from above). External hardware that hooks up and tricks the cars ecu to gain performance. Usaully less power gain then ecu tune but untraceable for warranty purposes (just take it off before you give your car to the dealer)
Option 2: getting your ecu flashed. Most power gain, but only buy from a big name tuner (eurocharged, weistic, brabus, renntech, to name a few theres more good options). I wouldn't trust a local tuner with something as complex as our car. Why? Because off chance major motor failure happens, the dealer will see something was changed if they dig deep enough. Theres no 100% way to hide an ecu tune, just depends on how deep the dealer digs.
Final thoughts, in either method your car will be faster & more responsive, but I also subscribe to use your power or loose it 😂
Upgrade to better tires like others said & stomp the pedal to the floor for your speed wants.
If that's not enough, then consider stage 1 tune aka ecu tune.
Option 1: Piggyback ( the dianian from above). External hardware that hooks up and tricks the cars ecu to gain performance. Usaully less power gain then ecu tune but untraceable for warranty purposes (just take it off before you give your car to the dealer)
Option 2: getting your ecu flashed. Most power gain, but only buy from a big name tuner (eurocharged, weistic, brabus, renntech, to name a few theres more good options). I wouldn't trust a local tuner with something as complex as our car. Why? Because off chance major motor failure happens, the dealer will see something was changed if they dig deep enough. Theres no 100% way to hide an ecu tune, just depends on how deep the dealer digs.
Final thoughts, in either method your car will be faster & more responsive, but I also subscribe to use your power or loose it 😂
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mrguitar (01-22-2019)
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mrguitar (01-22-2019)
01-22-2019, 10:58 AM
#17
Surely any remap, piggy back or ecu flash is tracaable, even if it is removed there will peak torque, boost logged. Dealers dont care as long as they are getting paid for any warranty so why would they look. Good luck getting a blown turbo replaced by MB or indeed any tuner after a remap. Dont forget to declare the remap when you sell hahahahaha
01-22-2019, 05:57 PM
#18
Super Member
Thread Starter
The thing is, you'll be roasting the stock tires by accident. Just tipping into the throttle at 2500-3000 rpm at low speeds you will light up the tires, the tune adds 150+ ft-lbs torque down low in the RPMs. I have to agree with what was said, if you tune this car, larger tires are not optional. You have to upgrade to something larger (I have 305 PS4S's in the rear) or you'll be spinning your tires at 60+mph.
I have the Dinan tune (piggyback) and love it. Dinan is the only tuner that offers a true factory-matching warranty, and they've been around longer than almost any other tuner (1979!). If something happens with your car as a result of their tune and Mercedes doesn't cover it, they'll cover it for you. To be honest, a Stage 1 tune is very safe and reliable for this engine - it's not being stressed, so I wouldn't worry much about anything catastrophic happening - it's just nice to have the peace of mind in case anything happens.
I'm actually putting my Dinan tune up for sale if you're interested - I'm installing bigger turbos and need to go the custom tune route.
I have the Dinan tune (piggyback) and love it. Dinan is the only tuner that offers a true factory-matching warranty, and they've been around longer than almost any other tuner (1979!). If something happens with your car as a result of their tune and Mercedes doesn't cover it, they'll cover it for you. To be honest, a Stage 1 tune is very safe and reliable for this engine - it's not being stressed, so I wouldn't worry much about anything catastrophic happening - it's just nice to have the peace of mind in case anything happens.
I'm actually putting my Dinan tune up for sale if you're interested - I'm installing bigger turbos and need to go the custom tune route.
01-22-2019, 06:01 PM
#19
Its a chip plug in and easily removable.
01-22-2019, 06:06 PM
#20
Super Member
Thread Starter
Surely any remap, piggy back or ecu flash is tracaable, even if it is removed there will peak torque, boost logged. Dealers dont care as long as they are getting paid for any warranty so why would they look. Good luck getting a blown turbo replaced by MB or indeed any tuner after a remap. Dont forget to declare the remap when you sell hahahahaha
As ECU Tuners, our job is to read out the stock code, modify it to make safe power, and program it back into the computer using factory level OEM tuning tools with correct checksums so no one, including the dealerships will be able to tell there has been any modification.
01-22-2019, 11:53 PM
#21
Member
Surely any remap, piggy back or ecu flash is tracaable, even if it is removed there will peak torque, boost logged. Dealers dont care as long as they are getting paid for any warranty so why would they look. Good luck getting a blown turbo replaced by MB or indeed any tuner after a remap. Dont forget to declare the remap when you sell hahahahaha
The obvious benefit of this motor is that it designed for and capable of much bigger numbers so the ceiling is high and the risk of a failure caused by the tune is low.
I’ve already bought one for my ‘19s coupe, but will burn through the stock tires first (which wont apparently take that long), change to PS4s and put 265s on the front and 305s on back and install it then. Looking forward to that day.
01-25-2019, 11:25 AM
#23
Senior Member
True in terms of power gains but you are paying for the warranty.. I know a guy with an engine they covered and replaced on an m5. BMW wouldn't cover it because Dinan's software was running as well as a supercharger. It was a 13k repair. What tuner companies do you know that will replace an engine or turbo's or any stock part on a car because it failed with their equipment or software running? They ecu tune bmw's. They have been around for decades primarily for bmw's.. I have an ecu tune from them on my 335 and over 90k miles no issues. Bmw Performance had smaller gains and had a higher price for their tune for my car and everyone said the throttle response, power, and gear shifts were MUCH smoother with Dinan. Definitely night and day different on mine over stock can't even use more power as I would need to swap out the diff.. At the end of the day you are paying for modest gains and the warranty. Other tuners aren't giving you a warranty to replace parts costing thousands of dollars and have a team dedicated to dealerships handing out checks for repairs.
01-25-2019, 11:58 AM
#24
MBWorld Fanatic!
It's also not slow. I ran 11.5 @ 127 MPH on pump gas and full weight. I think it's one of the best piggyback options available for this platform.
You want to hear about overpriced garbage? Take a look at how much Brabus charges for their piggyback tune...
01-28-2019, 12:27 AM
#25
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Surely any remap, piggy back or ecu flash is tracaable, even if it is removed there will peak torque, boost logged. Dealers dont care as long as they are getting paid for any warranty so why would they look. Good luck getting a blown turbo replaced by MB or indeed any tuner after a remap. Dont forget to declare the remap when you sell hahahahaha
