msd3075

Everyone seems to always think that dynamic engine mounts are a performance and/or track option. They allow for the car to be both comfortable when cruising around (lower vibration and noise) and stiff/responsive/predictable when pushed hard. If you wanted a track setup, you'd just have much more rigid conventional engine mounts instead.

And big brakes are a waste on the road. If you have enough braking power to lock up the tires, then you have enough for the road. The only advantage of bigger brakes is heat management and fade resistance. If you are running into fade issues on the road, then you are driving way, way too hard and need to take it to the track.

And launch control will always be a bit gimmicky since it's never fool proof and seems to be fairly easily beaten by a driver knowing what he/she is doing. And I bet only a small percentage of C63S owners even know they have Launch Control on their cars, let alone used it before.

purplewidow

You are using it all the time.. it's a system that runs in the background distributing torque to the rear wheels to give you the best traction possible for your driving preference. this car has big issues with traction and the old TC system cut power way too much.. thanks to being overweight with poor weight distribution esp compared to it's main competition the m3/m4. Every review of the car they rave about the 9 stage traction control. Car and Driver just said the 9 stage TC is the best change in the facelift and there are a lot of changes.. Adding the amg ride control as well as the suspension changes and improved engine mounts the systems all work better together to give the driver a better experience with improving the ability to use as much of the power on tap as possible while improving ride quality.. This car has a serious issue with non usable power.. it has so much torque it couldn't use it as well with the old systems.. people complain about traction issues all the time on here.. Why purchase this car if you aren't going to use the power? just status to say you have something you wouldn't fully use? why not just get an e53 that has more power than you would use by what you are saying just running errands and going to and from work at the same price point? This car is meant to accomplish a lot more whether you use it or not that's what it is designed for. If you want the added bump in luxury that's why they have other models that follow that line of thought for the same price..The main knock when compared to the m3/m4, alfa, rs, was it didn't put down the power and handle as well. Focusing on that was a no brainer for AMG and they added more luxury inside to boot. Improving the steering wheel which works amazingly well with the new digital cluster feeding information a lot better esp for nav and performance intel. To me that means a lot more to most than soft close doors and doesn't add weight. So they added performance tech with amg ride control and 9 stage traction control and exterior bits with the aero pack, panamericana grill and performance upgrades with the new trans and suspension changes in the facelift. Those are some pretty big changes. adding soft close doors to the end of that list to me would be more of a luxury gimmick and not fuel what is driving people to switch from bmw, audi or alfa.

superswiss

+1...Seems like when I referred to the 9-stage traction control the jump was automatically made to the option of controlling the level oneself. Truth is the new traction control is much better than the old one. The computer controls the level in the background based on the current selected drive mode. For wintry condition select 'Slippery' and the computer will try to get the best possible traction by adjusting traction control etc. In addition it allows the more adventurous among us to turn of ESP, but keep traction control. In the old car you could only do ESP on, sport or completely off. The latter completely turns of traction control. Now you get an in between, where yaw stability can be turned off, but traction control can be kept on or reduced depending on how much one wants to play. Obviously should only be done on the track or empty canyon roads at your own risk, but the option is there to extract more fun out of the car w/o turning everything off completely.

benzbell

I'm assuming superswiss and purplewidow haven't used 9 stage traction control in a 2019 to any extent - if at all. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. My opinion is you are both speaking merely from what you've read online or watched on youtube videos. I have this setup in my GTR and am very familiar with it. Please feel free to offer your opinion once you receive your cars and can report back with some real world experience/opinions.

superswiss

No, I haven't driven a 2019, nor have you I assume. I've simply done my homework, due diligence and embrace the improvements. BTW, I'm an engineer and think like an engineer. FWIW, understanding and reverse engineering systems is what I do for a living and I'm very good at it. I will certainly update my view with real world experience once I have the car. I'm aware that you have the system in your GT-R, and I've seen it in action in a GT-R. As you know, the GT-R doesn't have a 'Slippery' mode, so I'm not sure how you think you are more qualified to know how the 2019 will perform in slippery conditions using this new mode. The software etc. has obviously been worked on since the system was introduced in the GT-R. This aspect is actually irrelevant to me, but I thought it might be worth considering for OP. I live in Northern California, so no snow unless I deliberately drive somewhere with snow. We only get about 60 days of rain per year, the rest is dry and mostly sunny.

My opinion is and I think others share this is that you are honing in on individual aspects of the improvements in the 2019 and try to find limitations and faults with them to defend your ownership. Primarily disqualifying them as being useless in your opinion, or not sharing the same concerns regarding the transmission for example. That's the same line of argumentation somebody who is afraid of change uses to try to preserve status quo and their investment. I think you are missing the scope and bigger picture of the improvements in the 2019. I think we can all find faults and limitations with individual parts, but that would mean we can't see the forest for the trees. As @purplewidow put it well, the Achilles heel of the C63/S has always been the challenge to put the power on the pavement. Notice, AMG didn't increase the power output of the 2019 as they did for the C43. For obvious reason, lack of power was never an issue. The regimen of improvements they have done for the 2019 are aimed at one thing, and that is to allow the car to put more of the power down, more of the time and judging from everybody who has driven and compared it to the pre-facelift, they have largely succeeded. I really have no horse in the race at this point. So far I've only ordered the car. No money has left my wallet. I'm a convert from BMW and Audi. My current DD is an RS5, which has less power, but thanks to quattro can fully use all the power it has. The improvements in the 2019 is what made me take another look at the C63CS after not falling in love with the 2018.

Also, for those folks like you, there is always the C63 non-S, which while still being overkill to commute to work and get your groceries, it doesn't have things like the 9-stage traction control, Race mode, Dynamic engine mounts etc. that you find so useless.

purplewidow

You are right I have not used it in a 2019.. I have driven a 2018 gt-r both on track and on public roads though.. I had the knob lighting up a lot while driving it for about an hour each on both and messed with the settings both on track and country roads in and around road america driving it back to back with a friends 458... The difference between setting 2-3 and 8-9 is dramatic. i kept it at 3-4 most of the time. Also it is a completely different car setup than the c63s coupe.. The weight distribution is flipped with 53% in the rear as opposed to the c63s coupes 47% in the rear.. the c63s is for use as a daily with the ability to go to the track and have some fun. The GT-R is not meant to be a daily but be a weekend/track warrior. It isn't the car you take to load up on groceries. The GT-R i drove had no where near the traction issues the 2017 c63s i drove had.. If it did it wouldn't be the track monster it is stock.. the only other non suv amg's i have driven are the s55 s63 sedan and the e55 e63s sedan's both with and without awd. The newer models have awd to use all that power since the chassis wasn't just built for the track.. In my family we have had every new model of the s55, s63 sedans including the new s63 4 matic going back 17-18 years.. all but the 4 matic had huge traction issues and they had way more weight than the c63s or obviously the gtr. AMG's old traction systems cut power soo hard when just pressing 1/3 down on the pedal let alone flooring it.. The main issue today with these hi powered cars is putting down the power.. I don't know why adding a software that offers better traction would be less appreciated than adding more luxury to a car that has more than any other car in it's class. AMG is trying to balance out the cars more and get rid of that straight line speed, poor handeling, bad traction image.. the GT-R lap times are insane and the drivers point to the 9 stage traction control system and chassis. That technology from the gtr and now the project one dripping down the lineup is awesome. When I drove the c63s I wanted to use the power more i wasn't asking for more luxury. I wanted it to deliver power better like the GT-R.. I want to be able to use that other 100 hp on tap not have it delayed because of wheel spin and coming in late when i don't need it. I wanna have fun with this car and use it as my daily too.. coming from a tuned 335 coupe as my daily with HUGE traction issues thanks to it one wheeling it thanks to it' s e dif.. it has 400hp 420lb/tq and weighs about 600lbs less than the c63s, power to weight ratio is close between the 2. i break traction if i floor the car going 70mph...Driving my families s63's, one of which is mine, the one with the 6.2 liter na engine has huge traction issues and again flooring the car at 70mph i lose traction and the engine cuts power hard as a result. I have come to appreciate a car being able to put down the power it has when i want it to vs just having a car with power numbers I can't use most of the time and a nice badge on the back. I don't see why people buy these cars if they aren't going to use the power. It literally makes zero sense besides status that they have to have the best in its class even if they don't use what it's capable of. Again that's why they have the e53 it's for people that want more luxury but still have the sporty image of an amg and it's the same price level. If you aren't going to use the car for what it was built to do why buy it?

benzbell

Defend my ownership. I bought mine 10-weeks ago. I could have easily ordered a 2019 if I wanted one. I'll wait until 2020. More often then not, there will be some kinks and minor improvements done and worked out on the 2020. Just like there was from the 2015 C63WS (which I had for 2 years) to the 2016. At that point, there will be some info out on the W206 and I'll make a decision at that time to get a 2020 or hold out for the W206. Software tweaks have limitations, and can only allow you to put so much power down. Hence the 0-60 time improving from 3.9 to 3.8 in the 2019. To me that improvement was achieved through the 9 speed MCT - not necessarily software.

Also, for engineer folks like you. You should reverse engineer (reread) my posts and you'll find I never said anything about Race mode, Dynamic engine mounts being useless.

benzbell

Great detailed post and some very good points - thank you. Was an interesting read with your past history of the other cars and how they performed.

DRGG

I am one of the "less fortunates" driving the 2018. I also came from a Quattro. When I had Quattro, I missed the ability to smoke the tires. Now that I can spin the tires, I miss the traction. I didn't have the luxury of waiting for a new model, and I almost feel like I am holding the consolation prize after reading your comments. Upon reflection, I wonder why the 0-60 times on the 2019 are no different than the 2018. Comments? Some have reported traction can be greatly improved with better tires?

superswiss

The thing with manufacturer stated 0-60 times is that they are measured under ideal conditions with all the stars aligned. If you look around, watch some videos, ask owners you'll find that even with launch control the stated 0-60 times were hard to achieve. Most land in the 4 seconds somewhere in real world conditions. Very different in the world of Audi and AWD. Anybody can essentially get those times and repeatedly. The improvements in the 2019 help actually achieving those numbers. One of the videos that got me interested in the system is the one from carwow, where he repeatedly launched a 2019 C63WS and kept consistently getting 4.0s until the tires were warm enough to hook properly and his time went down to 3.9s.

brevets

No chance the '19 will offer any noticeable traction improvements over the '18 (especially on dry roads). The only way traction will be noticeably improved on this car would be the addition of 4Matic. Unlikely that will happen for this gen, so the E63s (or maybe the W206) would be the best bet.

BrownDog09

I think the incremental upgrades are awesome and you bet your butt I’d take the refresh over my 18 if I could just say the word. I’ll say the enjoyment of this car, and most sports cars are found in the engine and transmission. The new doodads and accoutrements are nice and keep with the progression that we all demand from year to year but the preponderance of the experience is the M177 under the hood.

Take the M3/4 for instance, if you pick up first model year of the M4 and drive the latest the with competition package - they’re both the same car. I’ve driven both back to back and was hard pressed to tell the diff. You’re not wrong for saying the refresh is the more desirable car and you’re not wrong for dismissing the incremental upgrades. It’s marginal until we see whe W206... then I get the real itch to call up my dealer and negotiate with the wife again...

superswiss

Yeah, it is a facelift incorporating the learnings over the last three years and bring some elements from the GT-R and even the Project One (AMG Drive Unit). I feel strongly that this is the last V8 C63 we'll see. The 206 will be a different car. It's already been hinted at by the head of AMG. It'll probably have 4Matic+, perhaps optional and most likely gone is the 4.0 V8TT and replaced by an I6 with a mild hybrid system. I trust AMG will still try to make it an emotional car, but we'll have to see. What's going on in Germany at the moment is not promising for this level of car to continue as it is now. The particulate filter and pressure of noise reduction in the EU specs is just the start. I'll see what the 206 will bring, but I didn't wanna miss out on this one. It has already happened over at Audi. The awesome screaming high revving V8 in my RS5 is gone, replaced by a meh V6TT with the exhaust note of a hair dryer.

benzbell

Okay Mr. pseudo psychologist.
Let's keep it simple. Once you get a C63 (provided you're actually getting one) report back and let others know if you think 9 stage traction control is useful or not.

superswiss

No worries, I'll report back from my adventures. It might be a while, though. After I'll pick it up in Germany at the beginning of May, I'll be spending two months with it driving on home turf before it gets shipped to the USA. Below is a preview of one of the Mountain passes I'll be driving on. That's the Klausenpass in Switzerland if you are curious. I'm sure it will be a blast to dial in just the right amount of traction to have fun on those switchbacks. Perhaps the roads around where you drive aren't all that interesting for a car like this. I grew up with these kinds of Alpine roads in my backyard and thankfully California has fun canyon roads as well.

purplewidow

The latest dealer order guide from 1-14-2019 has the c63s coupe's 0-60 in 3.7 seconds now

benzbell

Very childish comment - immature actually. You're more of a keyboard warrior then I initially thought. What's next? You'll want to compare bank accounts and d**k size?

superswiss

Ok, then. Bye, Felicia.

japamg

superswiss

Ask away. I'll try to answer. He somehow seems to have gotten hurt. I just pointed out that the kinds of roads will factor into the enjoyment of the car.

benzbell

Another immature comment. Not what I would expect from an Engineer (provided you actually are one).

superswiss

Dude, chill it. I don't come here to be insulated by somebody who knows nothing about me. Take it somewhere else. If you are interested in having a proper discussion, ring me up.

msd3075

You are crazy over-analyzing this. And seeing from the engineer flag-waving, I'm not really surprised.

Just because there is an improvement in the performance of the car, the operation of certain features, or the addition of new options, that does not directly equates to a car being an "better". It depends directly on the specific buyer and what he/she views as relevant. Your data logs could show a 0.1 second improvement in 0-60 times, but if the buyer doesn't feel as if the car is any faster, then the improvement doesn't matter. If the marketing department does their job and convinces the buyer they felt a difference (and the buyer falls for it), then yes, they'll view it as an improvement. But it's ultimately up to the buyer to decide that, not an engineer that thinks it should be so.

Take my father-in-law. Splurged on the crazy-nice infotainment system in his SUV. It's significantly better on paper than what was in his old car. Apple CarPlay. Huge screen. Effortless interface. But all he ever does is leave it on the Navigation screen with the sound notifications muted and his home address permanently input in as his destination. To him, it's no different than his old car other than "it's too damn bright and distracting at night." You can pull all the data you want showing how his new system is far superior to his old one, but to him it's no better. Only different. And his opinion is the only one that matter since he's the one buying the car.

And I'm a fellow engineer. Or at least I have the degree.

superswiss

Yes, exactly the improvements matter to me, so I'm sharing my opinion that's all. I really have no issue if they don't matter to somebody else. I just don't go around calling things useless if they don't matter to me, or start a personal attack on somebody. This stuff spurs discussions. I thought this was a car forum and we are talking about a high performance variant.

msd3075

You stated your opinion. Great. Nothing wrong with that. So did other people. Again, nothing wrong with that. But you proceeded to immaturely belittle them because their opinions were different.

Don't do that.