Originally Posted by AlexZTuned

I said aftermarket performance parts, not the car/platform itself.

How often are you in your engine bay? The only time my hood opens is when I’m giving my car a wash/wipe down to clean. So to that point, I don’t really care what an intake looks like as long as it performs as stated.

The fact that we have hot-V mounted turbos with reverse flow heads already makes the engine bay way cooler to look at then the 99% of cars that hide everything with giant plastic engine covers.

Originally Posted by AlexZTuned

I don’t understand this obsession with displaying the plaque on aftermarket intakes. To me, aftermarket performance parts are always function over form - whatever has the best results.

I’m sure they could create a new mold/design to add a raised area, but this is adding unnecessary cost. Personally, with intakes, I’m not wanting to spend well over a grand for something that adds some top end power. I’d be happier putting that money towards some new, stickier tires.

I will say I’m the kinda guy that’s interested in the regular plastic version modalworks is doing for their pre-production. I’m sure the CF version will look cooler and weigh 2 ounces less than plastic, but it adds unnecessary cost to a part that shouldn’t cost a fortune in my opinion.

Originally Posted by tobeit

I am glad we are all different and that is a good thing ...I think there is a thread somewhere here where owners even took pics of their signature batch.In my case the fact the car came with it and its unique to each car with the hand signature I like to retain it and if retaining it and make it look nice even better.

Originally Posted by tobeit

well, you would to have to back that up with data and measure your airflow and compare to eventuri, Weistec and other sealed systems. Sound - yeah it’s different but depends what you like it maybe better or worse.

Originally Posted by FDNewbie

So...for the sake of having a well-rounded discussion with other perspectives, I actually discussed the above with Eventuri, who are engineers with a background in aeronautics. And while they don't have the time to get dragged into a back & forth on the forum, they were ok with me sharing their response on the forum. Enjoy

"It’s an interesting debate and there is definitely a lot of misinformation out there.

For a start - running a turbo with just a screen doesn’t give the highest possible flow rate. Since it’s just a hole you get delamination of the airflow around the entry of the hole. So in effect the opening for flow is smaller than the actual diameter of the hole. Adding a funnel with a radius to the turbo inlet gives a greater flow rate potential than just an open hole.

The open cone vs sealed debate is all about how you intend to use your car. Also depends on the design of the system for pressure drops.

With an open cone in the C63S - you will start off with an incredibly high intake air temperature so the initial boost pressure ramp rate will be slower as the turbo tries to spool up with less dense air. Higher air temperatures entering the cooling system also means a higher air temperature exiting the cooling system to the engine. The coolers don’t reduce temperature to an absolute number. They cool the air by an efficiency percentage. So higher temp in means higher temp out. When this reaches the engine the ECU will see it and reduce timing accordingly.

Once on the move and under full acceleration, the engine bay does not miraculously get cold since the turbos are now generating intense heat and will start to glow red - that heat will radiate out to all components in the engine bay including the intake. The air around the turbos and manifold will also heat up and the open cones will be drawing this heated air in. Simple heat shields will not stop hot air entering the cones.

Open cones can work if the area they are pulling air from is away from the turbos and manifolds. Like for example within a wheel arch or behind the nose grills. On the C63S the cones are literally next to the hottest components on the engine and to make matter worse they are facing away from the cold air entry for the airbox system.

Turbo charged cars are very sensitive to high IATs. During development on other platforms like the Audi RS6 which has a similar problem with turbos on top of the engine, we tested our Venturi pods which are semi-open and we lost 10hp vs the stock airbox. So even though the airbox had a lower maximum flow rate vs our filter pods, the IATs resulted in a loss of power. Then we designed a full airbox for the RS6 instead and gained power.

On the C63S, the stock and other hybrid turbos do not exceed the flow demand that our sealed airboxes can handle. In fact people are running in excess of 800hp with the stock airboxes!

The other consideration is the design of the open cone systems. Often these are designed with metal tubes which are mandrel bent like and exhaust pipe. For a start - metal tubes will conduct heat very fast and they will then transmit that heat to the intake air passing through them. The coefficient of thermal conductivity for carbon (through plane) is a fraction of the value for metal. Secondly this type of tubing cannot change in diameter so you find that it remains at around the same diameter as the turbo inlets all the way to the filter. Compare our design which opens up after the turbos and increases in volume all the way to the filters vs the metal tubes which stay at the same diameter as the turbo inlets. It’s like sucking through a straw vs sucking through a funnel. The pressure drop is higher. So even if in ideal conditions on a drag strip with a cold engine bay to do one pass - the advantage of an open cone to de-restrict the intake is still compromised by constant diameter tube has a higher pressure drop than a flow path which increases in size.

We will be doing a final round of flow bench testing on Tuesday with the stock airbox and our system. Perhaps I will also do a flow test on some tubing with a open filter purely for academic purposes.

From our experience on working with turbo charged cars, IATs are very important. High air temperatures increase the turbo wastegate duty cycle as the turbo tries harder to achieve target boost with less dense air. Furthermore higher IAT causes the ECU to retard timing to protect the engine. On a performance road car - you are not going to be able to avoid increasing IAT as the engine bay heat soaks. Hence why we spent the best part of a year developing our sealed system.

Hope that helps."

Originally Posted by FDNewbie

So Eventuri just notified me that they did the flow bench tests on the intake vs stock airbox vs open cone system! From https://www.instagram.com/p/B391OuVh...d=lp8wfv2tet8z:

Originally Posted by FDNewbie

Again, a disclaimer that I'm not associated with Eventuri; just engaged in a long discussion with them re: Aeronautics, as I'm always curious regarding online/forum theories vs science and fact. Having said that, they wanted to extend the following replies to the comments below:

“We used a high flow filter which is actually bigger than you would be able to fit in the C63S engine bay. However, out of interest we also flow tested the tube itself with NO filter. It actually flowed LESS without a filter! This is because the tube ends without a velocity stack style lip. The filter has an internal stack which actually helps the airflow to be drawn into the tube. So the restriction is not the filter but the actual tube itself.”

“The stock airbox is restrictive due to its narrow dimensions which pinch down after the filter as it curves around to the turbo. So no matter if you use a high flow filter or a spacer to lift the airbox lids up - the restriction remains."

“The flow bench shows the maximum possible flow rate at a given pressure drop of 28” Water. An intake which shows a bigger flow rate at 28” pressure drop also means that at lower flow rates, the pressure drop through the system will also be less since it is less restrictive. So basically a less restrictive intake allows the turbos to work with less resistance since the pressure drop through the system is lower at any given flow rate. This is why we see the increase in power after 5000rpm where the pressure drop on the stock system rises faster than our less restrictive system”

My comment: I think what he's saying in the last sentence is emphasizing that pressure drop (along with IATs) is the real culprit you want to overcome with an intake system. And if you (over)design an air intake that is actually capable of flowing greater than what the motor/turbo can actually pull, there's no downside, and actually there's an upside, in that this increased flow capability translates to a decreased pressure drop on the intake side. And this eventually translates to maximizing airflow into the turbo and engine.

Here's a simple yet great explanation I found from another site as to why pressure drops are so important in intakes: https://www.hpacademy.com/technical-...ons-explained/

"When the piston descends in the cylinder, it creates a vacuum or low pressure area in the cylinder. When the intake valve opens, we now have a pressure differential between the vacuum in the cylinder and the atmospheric pressure outside. This pressure differential causes the air to flow into the cylinder to equalise this imbalance. The larger this pressure differential, the more inclined the air will be to flow into the cylinder, resulting in a better cylinder fill and the potential for more power. This is the exact principle that superchargers work on - They artificially increase the pressure differential forcing much more air to flow into the cylinder.

Now for an example lets take a GM LS1 5.7 litre V8, where each cylinder displaces 712 cc (5700cc / 8 cylinders). In the perfect world, each time the piston descends on the intake stroke, the cylinder will be filled with 712 cc of fresh air – a situation that would be known as 100% volumetric efficiency (VE). It’s the engine’s ability to fill its cylinders with fresh air during the intake stroke that defines the power potential of the engine.

While we have established that under standard conditions we have 101.3 kPa of air pressure to force the air into our engine, this is only partly true. See before the air gets a chance to make its way into the cylinder, it covers a pretty torturous path through the intake system. This includes the airbox, air filter, airflow meter, intake plumbing, and finally the throttle body. If we want to get pedantic, it also must flow through the intake manifold, the intake ports in the heads, and finally past the intake valve. Each step along this path is a potential source of restriction.

So what exactly do I mean by a restriction? Well while we have 101.3 kPa of atmospheric pressure to play with, this is not acting directly against the intake valve. It only exists at the entrance to our air box, and from this point anything that restricts the flow of air into the engine will result in a slight pressure drop. We may only be talking about pressure drops of 1-2 kPa, but by the time you introduce several such restrictions, we find that the air pressure actually available to act on the intake valve may be only 95 kPa or worse. Now our air is much less inclined to flow into the cylinder so our cylinder fill is reduced (represented by a reduction in VE), and the end result is a smaller bang and less power."

Originally Posted by untamedd

Dont care how good or how well the Eventuri performs. Would never pay $3-4k for any intake when for that price I can get bigger turbos and what not. Waste of money for an intake.

Originally Posted by FDNewbie

1) I'm not telling you to do anything. I was responding to the comment regarding testing of an intake's performance.

2) Pricing definitely plays a role, unfortunately, and turbos are cheap enough that it makes anyone on a budget choose more selectively on where to spend their money. Ditto, I'd probably get a tune before I get those intakes. Having said that, if you want max power on stock internals, I'd go full intake, exhaust, turbos, and tune...

Originally Posted by rbohgan

im trying to figure out whether to drop in new filters or a new intake. the $800 modalworks one is best for price. i cant imagine spending $1500+ on just an intake? it's definitely an important piece tho... my cars got downpipes and renntech stage 2 now. so im really trying to figure out and plan next steps. intake makes the most sense but i gotta wait before buying anything extra

Originally Posted by FDNewbie

Also, keep in mind opinions vary, but they're also constrained by what you're willing to spend as well. There are intakes for $2k, and ppl buy them. There are wheels for $6K, and people buy them. There are exhausts for $8K, and people buy them. There are superchargers for $20K, and people buy them.

Originally Posted by tobeit

Not different than none AMG owners saying "there are ppl who by $100k cars...".

Originally Posted by FDNewbie

Yea, but I'll be honest. Whenever I get a regular C or E (or whatever) class Benz from the local dealership as a loaner while my C63 is in service, I can *immediately* tell the difference, not just in performance, but in quality, handling, etc. Yes the AMGs are expensive, but you're getting what you're paying for IMO.

Yes and no, and there's a spectrum on that. For some people, they have a regular car as their daily driver, and the AMG is their weekend warrior. And for some people, the AMG is their daily driver, and they have a supercar as a weekend warrior. And yep, there are those who have a supercar as their daily driver lol... So just cuz you own something expensive doesn't mean you have the ability to drop serious $$ into it.

Agreed. If I'm gonna get form AND function, it's a lot easier to swallow...

Agreed. Which again is why I'm a firm believer in cold air intakes, separated from the ambient heat in the engine bay by an enclosure.

Originally Posted by tobeit

My C63s is my daily and I own 2 other fun cars but none is a super car...maybe one day when my kids are out of college 😜

Originally Posted by FDNewbie

Haha good for you dude. I drove the wheels off of my first Edition 1 Coupe. 50K miles in 2 years My second...I think imma baby her a bit. I REAAALLLY like the Edition 1 Coupe...

Eventuri. Hands down.

Originally Posted by FDNewbie

I think it's fair to say the intake is probably one of the last areas to drop sig $$. I'd focus on the main things (DPs, tune, both of which you have). And maybe upgraded turbos next...esp since you can get the PURE 800 turbos for $3K, and for most people's purposes, you won't be hitting the limit of the factory intakes anytime soon...

Also, keep in mind opinions vary, but they're also constrained by what you're willing to spend as well. There are intakes for $2k, and ppl buy them. There are wheels for $6K, and people buy them. There are exhausts for $8K, and people buy them. There are superchargers for $20K, and people buy them.

You wanna figure out and work within your budget, and go from there. And for me, I have to be able to justify the cost. For example, I can justify $2K for the Eventuri exhaust based on the actual R&D that went into it, and their history of true R&D on their products. To each his own...

Originally Posted by rdrrua

Which intake I should go for more power figures / response & induction noise?

The looks are also important

I am hesitating between Weistec and Eventuri.

Weistec sounds better, Eventuri's sound very subtle, but it's got the looks!

Power-wise I understand they are the same?