New to this platform. Performance modifications for 750WHP
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New to this platform. Performance modifications for 750WHP
Good morning,
***Disclaimer***I’m new to this forum and have been looking but can’t seem to find the exact performance section. So if this is the wrong place please direct me where to post.
Anyhow I come from the world of American muscle and high power supercharged V8s. I had a 2012 Camaro SS, A 2013 Camaro ZL1 that I modified into the 700 HP range at the crank (600 at the wheels). Then I got a 2016 Z06 that I made into an 860whp monster (1000 at the crank). I did full bolt ons, a cam, procharger f1A and methanol in that car. But with a 5 year old it wasn’t practical. So I’m looking for a 4 door tire burner. I’m between the CTSV V3, c63 s, E 63S or the new black wing ct5 v manual which may also have the supercharged lt4 ot possibly the ZR1 LT5).
My question here is two fold..... I’m looking at getting a C63 s or an E 63 S. They both have the 4.0L Bi turbo (twin turbo) engine. Is the c63 s just tuned down 100 hp and rwd (as opposed to the e63 s AWD) or is it completely a different motor with different restrictions?
Second question, is the w205 c63s capable of making 750WHP range with the stock turbos?
What are you guys seeing as far as hp gain packages? In the GM realm, if you’re staying with the stock supercharger, it’s headers, cold air intake, pulley changes to get more boost out of the supercharger, a cam, methanol, and/or e85 depending on fuel limitations.
what are you guys doing to get the most power out of these cars? What’s a typical package if you will?
again sorry for all the newb questions but I’m not too familiar with this platform. I’ve searched the forum and can’t quite find the answers I’m looking for. Thanks.
***Disclaimer***I’m new to this forum and have been looking but can’t seem to find the exact performance section. So if this is the wrong place please direct me where to post.
Anyhow I come from the world of American muscle and high power supercharged V8s. I had a 2012 Camaro SS, A 2013 Camaro ZL1 that I modified into the 700 HP range at the crank (600 at the wheels). Then I got a 2016 Z06 that I made into an 860whp monster (1000 at the crank). I did full bolt ons, a cam, procharger f1A and methanol in that car. But with a 5 year old it wasn’t practical. So I’m looking for a 4 door tire burner. I’m between the CTSV V3, c63 s, E 63S or the new black wing ct5 v manual which may also have the supercharged lt4 ot possibly the ZR1 LT5).
My question here is two fold..... I’m looking at getting a C63 s or an E 63 S. They both have the 4.0L Bi turbo (twin turbo) engine. Is the c63 s just tuned down 100 hp and rwd (as opposed to the e63 s AWD) or is it completely a different motor with different restrictions?
Second question, is the w205 c63s capable of making 750WHP range with the stock turbos?
What are you guys seeing as far as hp gain packages? In the GM realm, if you’re staying with the stock supercharger, it’s headers, cold air intake, pulley changes to get more boost out of the supercharger, a cam, methanol, and/or e85 depending on fuel limitations.
what are you guys doing to get the most power out of these cars? What’s a typical package if you will?
again sorry for all the newb questions but I’m not too familiar with this platform. I’ve searched the forum and can’t quite find the answers I’m looking for. Thanks.
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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 218
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From: Massachusetts
2020 s63 amg............2018 e63s amg w213............2017 C63s Coupe W205
Good morning,
***Disclaimer***I’m new to this forum and have been looking but can’t seem to find the exact performance section. So if this is the wrong place please direct me where to post.
Anyhow I come from the world of American muscle and high power supercharged V8s. I had a 2012 Camaro SS, A 2013 Camaro ZL1 that I modified into the 700 HP range at the crank (600 at the wheels). Then I got a 2016 Z06 that I made into an 860whp monster (1000 at the crank). I did full bolt ons, a cam, procharger f1A and methanol in that car. But with a 5 year old it wasn’t practical. So I’m looking for a 4 door tire burner. I’m between the CTSV V3, c63 s, E 63S or the new black wing ct5 v manual which may also have the supercharged lt4 ot possibly the ZR1 LT5).
My question here is two fold..... I’m looking at getting a C63 s or an E 63 S. They both have the 4.0L Bi turbo (twin turbo) engine. Is the c63 s just tuned down 100 hp and rwd (as opposed to the e63 s AWD) or is it completely a different motor with different restrictions?
Second question, is the w205 c63s capable of making 750WHP range with the stock turbos?
What are you guys seeing as far as hp gain packages? In the GM realm, if you’re staying with the stock supercharger, it’s headers, cold air intake, pulley changes to get more boost out of the supercharger, a cam, methanol, and/or e85 depending on fuel limitations.
what are you guys doing to get the most power out of these cars? What’s a typical package if you will?
again sorry for all the newb questions but I’m not too familiar with this platform. I’ve searched the forum and can’t quite find the answers I’m looking for. Thanks.
***Disclaimer***I’m new to this forum and have been looking but can’t seem to find the exact performance section. So if this is the wrong place please direct me where to post.
Anyhow I come from the world of American muscle and high power supercharged V8s. I had a 2012 Camaro SS, A 2013 Camaro ZL1 that I modified into the 700 HP range at the crank (600 at the wheels). Then I got a 2016 Z06 that I made into an 860whp monster (1000 at the crank). I did full bolt ons, a cam, procharger f1A and methanol in that car. But with a 5 year old it wasn’t practical. So I’m looking for a 4 door tire burner. I’m between the CTSV V3, c63 s, E 63S or the new black wing ct5 v manual which may also have the supercharged lt4 ot possibly the ZR1 LT5).
My question here is two fold..... I’m looking at getting a C63 s or an E 63 S. They both have the 4.0L Bi turbo (twin turbo) engine. Is the c63 s just tuned down 100 hp and rwd (as opposed to the e63 s AWD) or is it completely a different motor with different restrictions?
Second question, is the w205 c63s capable of making 750WHP range with the stock turbos?
What are you guys seeing as far as hp gain packages? In the GM realm, if you’re staying with the stock supercharger, it’s headers, cold air intake, pulley changes to get more boost out of the supercharger, a cam, methanol, and/or e85 depending on fuel limitations.
what are you guys doing to get the most power out of these cars? What’s a typical package if you will?
again sorry for all the newb questions but I’m not too familiar with this platform. I’ve searched the forum and can’t quite find the answers I’m looking for. Thanks.
Yes the c63s and e63 have the same m177 engine.
As far as power "packages" and stock turbos go...
1. The stock turbos do have a limit and really should not be pushed past 650whp if you care about reliability at all. So I would not recommend pushing them past that
2. To get to 700/800 whp+ you would need catless dps, upgraded turbos (pure or weistec), upgraded drop in filters or CAI and WMI. Can also add track exhaust for a few more hp.
3. I have a custom stage 2 tune with catless dps, drop ins, and track exhaust with stock turbos. I'm currently around 630whp and stable.
The platform is pretty bulletproof from an engine standpoint. Theyre all hand built and unless you find a one off lemon, they love getting beat on. Biggest benefit of the e63 is the AWD, but I love my coupe so far after coming from an f80 m3 and camaro before that. I loved the ctsv too, and almost got one of those instead, but at the end of the day the engine is great but they have lots of issues, so opted for the AMG.
Hope that helps a little...
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Joined: May 2020
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Good Morning
Yes the c63s and e63 have the same m177 engine.
As far as power "packages" and stock turbos go...
1. The stock turbos do have a limit and really should not be pushed past 650whp if you care about reliability at all. So I would not recommend pushing them past that
2. To get to 700/800 whp+ you would need catless dps, upgraded turbos (pure or weistec), upgraded drop in filters or CAI and WMI. Can also add track exhaust for a few more hp.
3. I have a custom stage 2 tune with catless dps, drop ins, and track exhaust with stock turbos. I'm currently around 630whp and stable.
The platform is pretty bulletproof from an engine standpoint. Theyre all hand built and unless you find a one off lemon, they love getting beat on. Biggest benefit of the e63 is the AWD, but I love my coupe so far after coming from an f80 m3 and camaro before that. I loved the ctsv too, and almost got one of those instead, but at the end of the day the engine is great but they have lots of issues, so opted for the AMG.
Hope that helps a little...
Yes the c63s and e63 have the same m177 engine.
As far as power "packages" and stock turbos go...
1. The stock turbos do have a limit and really should not be pushed past 650whp if you care about reliability at all. So I would not recommend pushing them past that
2. To get to 700/800 whp+ you would need catless dps, upgraded turbos (pure or weistec), upgraded drop in filters or CAI and WMI. Can also add track exhaust for a few more hp.
3. I have a custom stage 2 tune with catless dps, drop ins, and track exhaust with stock turbos. I'm currently around 630whp and stable.
The platform is pretty bulletproof from an engine standpoint. Theyre all hand built and unless you find a one off lemon, they love getting beat on. Biggest benefit of the e63 is the AWD, but I love my coupe so far after coming from an f80 m3 and camaro before that. I loved the ctsv too, and almost got one of those instead, but at the end of the day the engine is great but they have lots of issues, so opted for the AMG.
Hope that helps a little...
mat 630whp have you run it on the track (1/4)? If so, what times are you seeing?
and I’m assuming these turbos are just slightly smaller than the e63s?
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 426
Likes: 76
From: UK
C63S
The E63 is a lot more than just a tuned C63 lump. Read this to get a full jist of the differences, there are many!
https://wright-company.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/E63.pdf
https://wright-company.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/E63.pdf
Last edited by SimMB; May 8, 2020 at 10:49 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 377
Likes: 104
From: Chicago, IL
E63S4S
Good Morning
Yes the c63s and e63 have the same m177 engine.
As far as power "packages" and stock turbos go...
1. The stock turbos do have a limit and really should not be pushed past 650whp if you care about reliability at all. So I would not recommend pushing them past that
2. To get to 700/800 whp+ you would need catless dps, upgraded turbos (pure or weistec), upgraded drop in filters or CAI and WMI. Can also add track exhaust for a few more hp.
3. I have a custom stage 2 tune with catless dps, drop ins, and track exhaust with stock turbos. I'm currently around 630whp and stable.
The platform is pretty bulletproof from an engine standpoint. Theyre all hand built and unless you find a one off lemon, they love getting beat on. Biggest benefit of the e63 is the AWD, but I love my coupe so far after coming from an f80 m3 and camaro before that. I loved the ctsv too, and almost got one of those instead, but at the end of the day the engine is great but they have lots of issues, so opted for the AMG.
Hope that helps a little...
Yes the c63s and e63 have the same m177 engine.
As far as power "packages" and stock turbos go...
1. The stock turbos do have a limit and really should not be pushed past 650whp if you care about reliability at all. So I would not recommend pushing them past that
2. To get to 700/800 whp+ you would need catless dps, upgraded turbos (pure or weistec), upgraded drop in filters or CAI and WMI. Can also add track exhaust for a few more hp.
3. I have a custom stage 2 tune with catless dps, drop ins, and track exhaust with stock turbos. I'm currently around 630whp and stable.
The platform is pretty bulletproof from an engine standpoint. Theyre all hand built and unless you find a one off lemon, they love getting beat on. Biggest benefit of the e63 is the AWD, but I love my coupe so far after coming from an f80 m3 and camaro before that. I loved the ctsv too, and almost got one of those instead, but at the end of the day the engine is great but they have lots of issues, so opted for the AMG.
Hope that helps a little...
This is inaccurate - The E63S has unique pistons/camshaft profiles, huge change in cooling capacity and turbochargers.
The displacement is common between the E and the C, but it has a much lower compression ratio (8.6:1 old school big boost low compression on the E63S, 10.5:1 on the C63S).
The cam profiles are optimized for the boost curve of the E63S, and the E63S uses larger impellers/twin scroll hot sides
Biggest difference is going to be in the drivetrain. The E63S has a fully variable torque split AWD system. The C63S just cant hook up.
You should be able to put down 670whp with just a tune on the E63S. The issue is with higher power levels, the transmission computer and central powertrain controller (TCU/CPC) need to have their torque limiting thresholds raised, and at this time there are only a few tuners that do this service.
With downpipes, filters and an ECU/CPC/TCU tune, 750whp is easily attainable on 93 octane. The block itself is good for 1000hp+. Hell, mercedes sells half the block (the m133 4 cylinder in the last gen CLA45) with a higher specific crank output of 381hp with a warranty. (that would be a 760 crank motor) and folks have been tuning those to 450whp without issue.
Last edited by wassup61; May 8, 2020 at 11:12 AM.
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2 exhaust channels in the hot side of the turbo enabling exhaust pulses to sequentially stack instead of running into each other for faster spool and broader efficiency range.
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C63S
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The E63S has all the aforementioned upgrades noted above, but in case it wasn’t clear, the use of larger turbos (in addition to being twin scroll) on both the compressor and turbine side as well as larger runners on the exhaust manifolds, etc. make the HP potential output much higher than what you can make on stock C63S turbos.
I don’t know anyone who’s making 600 wheel hp or near it on stock C63S turbos. If anyone claims to, please post a dyno sheet with your mods, octane, water/meth, etc. E63S turbos are more than capable of making well beyond that.
I don’t know anyone who’s making 600 wheel hp or near it on stock C63S turbos. If anyone claims to, please post a dyno sheet with your mods, octane, water/meth, etc. E63S turbos are more than capable of making well beyond that.
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The E63S has all the aforementioned upgrades noted above, but in case it wasn’t clear, the use of larger turbos (in addition to being twin scroll) on both the compressor and turbine side as well as larger runners on the exhaust manifolds, etc. make the HP potential output much higher than what you can make on stock C63S turbos.
I don’t know anyone who’s making 600 wheel hp or near it on stock C63S turbos. If anyone claims to, please post a dyno sheet with your mods, octane, water/meth, etc. E63S turbos are more than capable of making well beyond that.
I don’t know anyone who’s making 600 wheel hp or near it on stock C63S turbos. If anyone claims to, please post a dyno sheet with your mods, octane, water/meth, etc. E63S turbos are more than capable of making well beyond that.
thanks guys.
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2015 C63S ,DME Tune, KW Has ,Kmac Bushings,BC Forged wheels,Gt Rotors,Porterfield R4S,Modal Intake
Start with the E63S and don't look back if you can afford one . AWD vs RWD .... its a no brainer
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Also keep in mind that this car CANNOT even put stock power down so I have no idea what the point of 700+hp or even 600+ hp is on this unless all you want to do is burn rubber. With stock 285s in the rear i get wheel spin even in 3rd gear. yes I know I could max out to 305 but i highly doubt youd be able to smash the accelerator even with those especially with 600+ hp.
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Also keep in mind that this car CANNOT even put stock power down so I have no idea what the point of 700+hp or even 600+ hp is on this unless all you want to do is burn rubber. With stock 285s in the rear i get wheel spin even in 3rd gear. yes I know I could max out to 305 but i highly doubt youd be able to smash the accelerator even with those especially with 600+ hp.
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MB W212, MB W218, BMW F06, BMW F48
@OP If you want a supercar sedan, F90 M5 Competition is a beast too. Better drivetrain than the E63s. It’s AWD and they consistently run high 10’s with just a simple tune only. And also you don’t have to worry about the TCU/ CPC.
Last edited by Hsg08; May 9, 2020 at 01:32 AM.
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I saw the vehicle virgins review of the F90. Seems like a sick car. But honestly I like the raw emotion you get out of the e63s. It sounds meaner and more grumbly if you will haha.
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2010 BMW M3, 2010 Lancer Evolution X, Incoming 2020 C63S Coupe
The E63S has all the aforementioned upgrades noted above, but in case it wasn’t clear, the use of larger turbos (in addition to being twin scroll) on both the compressor and turbine side as well as larger runners on the exhaust manifolds, etc. make the HP potential output much higher than what you can make on stock C63S turbos.
I don’t know anyone who’s making 600 wheel hp or near it on stock C63S turbos. If anyone claims to, please post a dyno sheet with your mods, octane, water/meth, etc. E63S turbos are more than capable of making well beyond that.
I don’t know anyone who’s making 600 wheel hp or near it on stock C63S turbos. If anyone claims to, please post a dyno sheet with your mods, octane, water/meth, etc. E63S turbos are more than capable of making well beyond that.
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c63 coupe
The E63 is a lot more than just a tuned C63 lump. Read this to get a full jist of the differences, there are many!
https://wright-company.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/E63.pdf
https://wright-company.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/E63.pdf
do you have link for c63 w205?
