Tunes voiding Warranty
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Joined: May 2020
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C63S Coupe
Tunes voiding Warranty
Bought a 2018 C63S coupe a few months ago, and I am wondering if MB dealers have a way to see if a car has been tuned. Can we just flash back to stock before a dealer visit or will they know?
I had a few Audi and BMW cars before this one, and I know Audi is quick to void warranty/flag the cars.
Not so much concerned as I am curious. Haven't had any interactions with my local MB dealers yet, but curious as to how they'd react to knowing my car is tuned - even if the downpipes and intake may be a giveaway.
I had a few Audi and BMW cars before this one, and I know Audi is quick to void warranty/flag the cars.
Not so much concerned as I am curious. Haven't had any interactions with my local MB dealers yet, but curious as to how they'd react to knowing my car is tuned - even if the downpipes and intake may be a giveaway.
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: Simi Valley, California
2018 C63 Sedan
Flash tunes can always be easily detected even if flashed back to factory. Good piggyback systems like the JB4 can be removed without a trace, but even if running one, don't make warranty claims for damaged caused by operating the vehicle outside of the factory specifications.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: May 2020
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C63S Coupe
Flash tunes can always be easily detected even if flashed back to factory. Good piggyback systems like the JB4 can be removed without a trace, but even if running one, don't make warranty claims for damaged caused by operating the vehicle outside of the factory specifications.
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 827
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From: Simi Valley, California
2018 C63 Sedan
It's always a trade off. Flash tunes offer some features not possible with piggybacks like exhaust burble changes and speed limiter removal. Many of our customers run both together with special JB4 settings designed for that purpose.
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From: Pearland, Tx
2020 AMG GTC Coupe & 2018 Macan Turbo
Flash tunes can always be easily detected even if flashed back to factory. Good piggyback systems like the JB4 can be removed without a trace, but even if running one, don't make warranty claims for damaged caused by operating the vehicle outside of the factory specifications.
As far as warranty claims by JB4 and any other P&P companies out there (think Race Chip, VR Tuned, etc), they will state that their s/w prevents the vehicle from exceeding safe operating parameters of the car's engine. But who's determining those parameters? Them? Aftermarket s/w hacks? Porsche? If Porsche, I'd like to see that information myself if someone has it or can point me to it.
You flash or P&P, you take that risk to be denied repairs and having to pay for subsequent damages yourself. I understand the 4.0L Bi-Turbo engine costs ~$72,000 (AutoVlog: engine inhaled water).
I think here's the bottom line: how many member of this forum have had coverage denied because of getting caught running a tune or having had a P&P installed? Probably very very few. And, when I look at the endless threads related to modifying our cars, it's a gamble most are willing to make. IMO...
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 827
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From: Simi Valley, California
2018 C63 Sedan
The reason a good piggyback can't be detected is for them to tune properly the vehicle can never be aware it's making more than the factory power levels, fuel consumption, etc, or it will throw fault codes.
I paid ~$63k for our new 2018 C63 including an engine. I'm sure a used engine can be sourced for $15k or exiting one repaired for less depending on what goes wrong. But another benefit of a system like the JB4 is you can dial in your risk via the app. Run map1 for mild gains and then on the track with good race gas or E85 can dial in a higher map on the fly.
As for safety systems the JB4 is unique in that it connects to CANbus and scans for conditions that might lead to detonation before it happens and aborts the run if detected. So it augments the factory safety systems. The factory systems are designed by the orignal software team and generally adequate for factory tuned vehicles but at higher power levels can be improved as JB4 provides.
I paid ~$63k for our new 2018 C63 including an engine. I'm sure a used engine can be sourced for $15k or exiting one repaired for less depending on what goes wrong. But another benefit of a system like the JB4 is you can dial in your risk via the app. Run map1 for mild gains and then on the track with good race gas or E85 can dial in a higher map on the fly.
As for safety systems the JB4 is unique in that it connects to CANbus and scans for conditions that might lead to detonation before it happens and aborts the run if detected. So it augments the factory safety systems. The factory systems are designed by the orignal software team and generally adequate for factory tuned vehicles but at higher power levels can be improved as JB4 provides.
Member
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From: Massachusetts
2020 s63 amg............2018 e63s amg w213............2017 C63s Coupe W205
Easy to hide flash tunes if you know when youre going in for service ahead of time. I just flash back to stock and drive 100+ miles to compile some data. The catless dps however, different story. Haha
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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2019 AMG GT R
I think the point being made here is that yeah you can flash back to stock and itll just slide through but if **** hits the fan and you blow a turbo for eg then the dealer will take a deep dive and will be able to tell the car was tuned even when reflashed to stock before the visit.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: IL
19 E63s, 23 M3 compX, B9 SQ5
OP the key is to have a SA and service department that's lenient with mods. I've always had ECU tunes over stupid piggybacks, and flash back to stock before service. Haven't had any issues, warranty intact. I've also never had any mechanical failures to need warranty work though.
Btw, if you do happen to blow your turbos or transmission with that piggyback, MBUSA sends a corporate appraiser to check out the car before approving any big $$$ repairs like new turbos, transmission etc under warranty. When they "deep dive" into the logs of the car, they will see that it wasn't running to stock parameters (boost etc.) and then you're in the same boat as the ECU tuned guys with none of the benefits.
Btw, if you do happen to blow your turbos or transmission with that piggyback, MBUSA sends a corporate appraiser to check out the car before approving any big $$$ repairs like new turbos, transmission etc under warranty. When they "deep dive" into the logs of the car, they will see that it wasn't running to stock parameters (boost etc.) and then you're in the same boat as the ECU tuned guys with none of the benefits.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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2019 AMG GT R
OP the key is to have a SA and service department that's lenient with mods. I've always had ECU tunes over stupid piggybacks, and flash back to stock before service. Haven't had any issues, warranty intact. I've also never had any mechanical failures to need warranty work though.
Btw, if you do happen to blow your turbos or transmission with that piggyback, MBUSA sends a corporate appraiser to check out the car before approving any big $$$ repairs like new turbos, transmission etc under warranty. When they "deep dive" into the logs of the car, they will see that it wasn't running to stock parameters (boost etc.) and then you're in the same boat as the ECU tuned guys with none of the benefits.
Btw, if you do happen to blow your turbos or transmission with that piggyback, MBUSA sends a corporate appraiser to check out the car before approving any big $$$ repairs like new turbos, transmission etc under warranty. When they "deep dive" into the logs of the car, they will see that it wasn't running to stock parameters (boost etc.) and then you're in the same boat as the ECU tuned guys with none of the benefits.
so anyone checking it should still only see stock numbers. At least thats how i figured piggybacks work
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2019
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From: New Orleans. LA
amg C63s
Ethically, if you exceed the parameters that a manufacturer engineers into a motor, shouldn't you be responsible to pay for any repairs that are a result of your change, rather than expect the manufacturer to pay the bill? It called accountability for you actions.You are not entitled to be compensated for your poor judgement and careless operation.
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From: Austin, TX
2017 Porsche 911 C4
isnt the whole point of a piggyback to trick the ECU in to thinking boost for eg is lower than stock so itll increase boost to what it think is stock level but in reality it will be higher.
so anyone checking it should still only see stock numbers. At least thats how i figured piggybacks work
so anyone checking it should still only see stock numbers. At least thats how i figured piggybacks work
An ECU flash is literally changing the code and parameters in the ECU, one flash will show that your ECU has been overwritten and that data is stored (along with the tuned ECU parameters).
FWIW, I always removed my Dinan piggyback before service and never had any issues with regular maintenance and even small fix here and there. It’s rare to have catastrophic (expensive) repairs like blown turbos, engines, unless you’re running big power or just a **** tune.
Last edited by AlexZTuned; May 19, 2020 at 06:29 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2019
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From: DFW, Texas
2017 AMG C63
Ethically, if you exceed the parameters that a manufacturer engineers into a motor, shouldn't you be responsible to pay for any repairs that are a result of your change, rather than expect the manufacturer to pay the bill? It called accountability for you actions.You are not entitled to be compensated for your poor judgement and careless operation.
You are correct. This is why good piggybacks like JB4, Dinan, etc. can be “untraceable”. The ECU is never thinking or logging data that exceeds stock limits - otherwise, the piggyback wouldn’t function properly and the car would start to throw codes, go into limp, etc.
An ECU flash is literally changing the code and parameters in the ECU, one flash will show that your ECU has been overwritten and that data is stored (along with the tuned ECU parameters).
FWIW, I always removed my Dinan piggyback before service and never had any issues with regular maintenance and even small fix here and there. It’s rare to have catastrophic (expensive) repairs like blown turbos, engines, unless you’re running big power or just a **** tune.
An ECU flash is literally changing the code and parameters in the ECU, one flash will show that your ECU has been overwritten and that data is stored (along with the tuned ECU parameters).
FWIW, I always removed my Dinan piggyback before service and never had any issues with regular maintenance and even small fix here and there. It’s rare to have catastrophic (expensive) repairs like blown turbos, engines, unless you’re running big power or just a **** tune.
Please, nobody needs start an ECU vs. piggyback debate here - just seems like there is a weirdly false stigma attached to piggy backs.
Last edited by LessIsMore; May 20, 2020 at 12:52 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: IL
19 E63s, 23 M3 compX, B9 SQ5
Not trying to start another ECU tune vs piggyback debate either, but they are inferior lol. OP is free to do his own research and come to his own conclusions. Both are better than stock however. 
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2019
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From: UK
C63S
If you are going to tune with a piggy back, you take on the responsibility of anything catastrophic happening to your engine or drive train will void your warranty. I wouldn't like to count on them not finding out. If it's just minor stuff, then you'll probably get away with it, if corporate get involved you're toast.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Austin, TX
2017 Porsche 911 C4
SimMB - As long as you remove your piggyback so there’s no physical evidence, you’re pretty much safe. If they dig into ECU, the code is still the same because it’s never been flashed - piggyback is tricking the ECU into thinking it’s not exceeding any values beyond stock parameters, so it won’t log data above stock parameters (otherwise the ECU would shut in down, throw you into a limp/safe mode). If you go to a dealer with it installed, you’re basically asking them to void your warranty (unless your dealership cool with it and mod friendly).
Last edited by AlexZTuned; May 20, 2020 at 06:50 PM.
