Does anyone have any heat issues running catless downpipes? I'm not sure if the factory pieces are double walled or not but they definitely seem to have some heat shielding over them. I guess ceramic coating and heat wrap is an option but at pretty good extra cost where I live to do. I just remember coming across that thread of a forum member melting his diverter valves right after doing tune and dp recently. I guess we would hear more threads about things given how many cars out there are running dp's. Experiences?

 

Most aftermarket downpipes will have heat shielding on them or a coating, so you shouldn't have any issues. Catless pipes themselves do not produce any more heat than stock.

 

Catalytic converters hold and create heat. They burn unburnt hydrocarbons. I'm sure catless downpipes run cooler than the factory pipes because they have almost no restriction to concentrate the exhaust heat, and they aren't there to burn anything to create more heat.

 

That’s right, since cats are designed to retain heat, by removing the cats, you’re reducing the heat produced. A stainless catless set of DP’s without coatings or wrap should still be cooler than OEM with the primary cats at 700+ F degrees.

That’s not to say heat is not an issue with DP’s and a tune. Increasing boost on these tiny turbos creates A LOT of extra heat that the stock cooling can’t always effectively cope with.

I do think that people on this platform need to consider heat management more (we need turbo blankets, etc.) to keep under hood temps in check and not melt diverted valves or damage sensors.

On another note, all the BOV adapters people use on this platform do nothing to remedy the deficient stock diverted valves (holding/dumping boost electronically, melting/failing, etc.). We need a FULL metal replacement that isn’t just a BOV adapter sandwiched between OEM to make pew pew sounds.

Turbosmart came out with a plug and play solution that completely replaces the entire stock diverted valves with either adjustable BOV/recirculating valves, or recirculating only valves. This would be a smart upgrade for anyone running a tune and pushing the turbos beyond their efficiency range:

Turbosmart Kompact Shortie Plumb Back (recirculating only): https://www.turbosmart.com/product/bov-kompact-shortie-plumb-back-mercedes-amg-c63-m178-bi-turbo

Turbosmart Kompact Shortie Dual Port (adjustable BOV or recirculating): https://www.turbosmart.com/product/b...m178-bi-turbo/

 

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Solid reply. Im trying to decide between modal and ssr. modal has the heat shielding like stock which is a nice benefit but ssr seems tried, tested and true. So if the heat shielding isn't a benefit than maybe I go with the ssr just so there is no fitment or quality surprises. Modal will save me a few hundred though too.

Do you think those turbo smart diverter valves are a necessity when tuning? That recent thread scared me a bit, I'm curious to what your experiences are with heat and plastics like you hinted at (in another thread). They're a pretty large extra expensive with exchange, duty, shipping, etc to Canada for a mod that may or may not be a necessity. Is​​ install simple for them?


Edit: reading their description below from their page, will the valves perform exactly as they should when simply installed or do they need adjusting . I'm just looking to not have plastic soup sucked in my turbos ans other pserts when going stage 2.

 

Turbosmart has the Kompact EM variants too for the plumb back and Dual port:
https://www.turbosmart.com/product/k...lumb-back-vr2/
https://www.turbosmart.com/product/k...dual-port-vr2/

Just additional options for those keen.

 

Thank you for sharing, that’s an excellent option - even better than the mechanic versions I posted. That would retain the OEM control of the valves (instead of deleting with sensor simulators).

Shane - I haven’t personally tried either a Turbosmart options, but I’m looking to upgrade more for peace of mind because it eliminates any potential issues or failures the OEM ones may encounter when tuned and running more boost. I’m still on stock diverter valves and they - knock on wood - haven’t failed on me yet. But just recently, I’ve had a MAP sensor fail, a boost hose off the turbo cracked, and a wastegate line was cracking - all because of the heat here in Texas.

IMO Samco needs a full line of OEM rubber replacement hoses with silicone ASAP for the M177, because all these hoses will wear and tear with the heat eventually. It’s only a matter of time, depending on climate, weather, etc...

I figure the more I do for heat management, the more I’m doing to prolong the life of these components (hoses, valves, etc). I’m honestly surprised in cracked an OEM hose off the turbo with just 8k miles on a Dinan tune. I have only 15k miles on my ‘17 coupe for reference. Car has spent half its life in Boston and the other in Austin.

 

Also, to add, I’ve seen someones hose right above the one where mine is cracked (the hose that connects the intake to the turbocharger inlet) explode and destroy a turbo. I’d replace everything with silicone if it was available.

 

All something for me to keep in mind. I'm in BC Canada and we see a handful of 30c/86f degree days but that's about as hot as it gets and in the summer it's usually more around 25c/77f and then colder from there for the rest of the year. I went back and read that other thread about the diverter valve melting for that one forum member and he put 10 hours of hard canyon driving over 24 hours in 95 degree heat, I just can't see my car ever being subjected to anything close to that with our roads, laws and climate. I guess its better safe than sorry though.


So these above are our best plug and play option? Just imply replace them? It appears they are sold individually. Plumb back is the factory setup, correct? I'm not looking for any fast and furious noises.

 

duplicate

 

That hose looks like it burst from too much pressure more than it looks cracked from heat ....note that its a reinforced hose which generally split through the reinforcement threading

 

This is my worst fear. AMG uses the cheap **** for hoses and ducts, going back to the M157 when my E63 used carpet like material for intake ducts and they were all torn to shreds. They improved it on the M177s going full plastic.

 

I ran a Dinan tune (no other mods) which adds maybe 3-4 psi on top of the stock boost. A couple pounds of boost above spec shouldn’t tear an OEM hose. Now if I was running 25+
psi on big turbos that would be another story...

 

Start this video at the 5 minute mark and you can see how an exploded turbo coupler on a. M177 took out a compressor wheel/turbo.

 

You mentioned Turbo blankets. Would you not want to jettison the heat instead of trapping it by wrapping it? Maybe better intercoolers?

 

Someone also mentioned higher boost causes even more heat. I’m thinking by wrapping the turbos might shorten their life due to heat retention. Is this true? I’m asking.

 

There’s a study from UT Austin on turbo blankets (PTP has their headquarters in Austin), and in their testing found that by keeping the heat in the turbine housing actually increases response and turbine efficiency.

Full study if you want to geek out: https://repositories.lib.utexas.edu/...=1&isAllowed=y

But here’s a summary:

“Efforts in R&D of modern vehicles are highly focused on improvements of the overall efficiency. The engine still has potential for better performance which not only implies pure efficiency considerations but also the power output specific to the engine size and weight. Turbochargers are a key technology. However, a significant amount of exhaust energy is lost through the turbine housing, and thus cannot be utilized to boost the intake air. If a certain portion of the lost heat can be conserved, however, the process in the turbine can be shifted more towards adiabatic expansion which, in theory, is the ideal case. The Engines Research Program at The University of Texas at Austin conducted comparison tests of a PTP turbo blanket. The baseline engine was a Cummins 6.7 Turbocharged Diesel Engine hooked up to a Superflow SF-901 dynamometer. A series of steady-state points were obtained as well as three instantaneous load tip-in scenarios (hard acceleration transients) in order to test for changes in transient response due to the turbo blanket. In addition to seven thermocouples that we installed around the turbine we used the open ECU software to log a set of about 30 engine parameters. The recorded data was first analysed with respect to the performance of the turbocharger alone. On the steady-state cases, the temperature increase of the turbine housing was significant while we did not measure a major increase of the oil temperature in the exit of the center section. According to these findings, oil “coking” was not a concern since the temperature difference of the oil with and without the turbo blanket was negligibly small. The boost pressure increase corresponded well with the higher turbo shaft speeds when the turbo blanket was applied. Second, tip-in transients were performed to examine the difference in performance during a hard acceleration. The turbo spooled up more rapidly with the turbo blanket installed in comparison to the baseline configuration. In all cases this resulted in an improved boost performance in the intake and a significant time-to-torque advantage of the engine with a torque benefit of up to 140 Nm while the acceleration was improved by 200-250 rpm for most of the tip-in event. This report presents detailed data regarding experiments in which the turbocharger and the engine are treated as an integrated system with a PTP turbo blanket applied in comparison to the baseline configuration for which the turbine housing is not insulated.”

 

Interesting....

 

So performs better, but wonder how affects longevity?

 

that was me with the blown diverter valves lol , fast forward to today . after I got a different dealer to change my intercooler for 1500 bucks they did the spark plugs for 500 and that was that ,cars back to feeling brand new . ssr downpipes have ben flawless for me sound great andnot to mention I think my car runs like 3-5 degrees cooler on average. (with hard driving I've seen it go about 220 in the past , now the highest I've seen is 215 and never over )also great price and pretty quick install, shop I used said 8 hours, had the car ready for me in about 5 .
also , whatever happened to me was an anomaly, maybe the car ran lean, but Ive been driving the car in 100+ degree weather without problems pure 900 should be ready sometime this week . csf heat exchange, evernturi intake ,and a meth kit as well. I did the dual port diverter valves from turbo start , and to be honest the little tiny bit of blow off sound is alright, a lot less swoosh than I've heard with the common vta adapters I've seen. I only did them to allow the 900s to release any overbuilt boost or anything like that , more of a personal fail safe if you were ask me . speaking of my previous luck with the stock valves I choose to be safer than sorry esp. because I wanna go for big power this summer. and im gunna use the same tuner as before which I feel should speak for itself in the sense of trust, and where to not lay blame on my previous situation.
im having the plastic housing that the intercoolers are molded into ,made into a cast and I want to try to have a full aluminum housing made for it .
sorry if I hiujcaked your thread in anyway was just trying to give you some solid information from my past expieernce

 

Oops I just replied to your other thread, but still no idea what happened hey? I could see some motor internal carnage from running too lean ans getting detonation but I can't imagine diverter valves are a result of that? Like you said, I guess it's clearly not a common thing.

 

I was wondering if anyone here ended up installing the Turbomaster Kompact plumb back valve? I have catted HJS200 downpipes and stage 2 tune. I get a whistle/air noise sometimes when I drive a little harder and I’m wondering if getting the Turbomaster will eliminate this. I’m also a little worried about the stock diverted valve after seeing another member’s valve melting

 

Someone here has done and posted pics.
It's a tight fit under the harness and shroud but doable.
I tried to install the EV version with dual plumb back/vent to air...but failed. For some reason the TS flange did not fit on mine...short of shaving the TS flange I stopped and never went back trying again. Still have them laying around never used.

 

Are you tuned? Since, you weren’t able to install the EV version, what did you do instead? Are you still on the stock diverter?

 

Yes, I am tuned. I am back on stock diverter valves. When you google the consensus is that while these plastic diverter valves are not ideal they hold up plenty even for tuned cars and turbo upgrades. The melted valve incident seems to have been a fluke - who knows what really caused it. Sure, the TS are better valves. Some here also swear you should switch to the vacuum controlled valves and bypass the ECU controls. Again, lots of opinion how much that really makes a change but my guess it it only really starts to make sense when going big turbo upgrade. The mild stage 1 and even stage 2 tunes don't need it necessarily..does not hurt either. JMO