I personally do not have a vehicle with this engine and rear main seal design, but as I read along, I do continuously have one question in my mind. Since the issue seems to be a clogged oil separator contributing to excess pressures, is there a product such as an intake cleaner that can be sprayed or fogged through the separators to keep them clean? Personally, if this was me, I would figure out the exact routing of that airflow and attack this with some Gdi cleaner like berrymans or Crc. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I’ll take a peek around, but if someone can post the airflow through those oil separators, it might be interesting to see for those willing to take a chance at cleaning them with an aerosol solvent.

 

I am assuming solvents have the potential to do more damage like seals, and other components and sensors that lie within the PCV system. For example, GDI cleaners are designed for fuel systems, not PCV systems. Not saying something doesn't exist but proceed with caution.

 

You have the M176 engine, which is related to the M177. Same block, so you likely have the same redesigned oil separate as the M177 in the S63. From the post above, it was redesigned due to installation constraints, so safe to assume the same constraints exist in the S560.

 

um, an intake cleaner is often applied through the vacuum of the pcv system…. I did not mention a fuel system cleaner. With that being said, would regular applications of higher pea to fuel, keep that pvc system cleaner as well due to the cleaning action of the pea vapors. Ultimately the oil in the separator contains sludge or cooked oil and those can be cleaned with safe solvents, if done regularly and before problems occur.

 

I see what you mean.

 

i can confirm that it has happened to my car TWICE now. devastating cost

 

Wow. Sorry to hear. First report I have seen on this site with a 2x occurrence.

 

any further details to help the community here:
1) when was the first repair - under warranty?

2) second repair also same issue but with newly designed parts? Not in warranty?

i see you've got 1 post here at Mbworld, long time lurker first time caller?

thanks for your input

 

Curious as to which oil you put in your engine?

 

I can be wrong but IMO, anyone having issues with rear seal is probably just not driving their car. Youre not doing your car any favours by just parking it.

would be interested if those members can confirm that they dont drive their cars regularly. Usually when car isnt driven, oil can start to pool on the seal since the pump isnt gonna be working on an idle car and this pooling can result in a leak.

you can get it fixed as many times as you want but unless you actually drive your car, its gonna keep coming back

 

plenty of discussion on the W213 AMG forum about this specific topic of whether you drive it or don't drive it, and it turns out people who drive it or don't drive it have the same issue eventually.

The actual parts were replaced with a new design, apparently they carried over the M157 oil vapor separators, and this new engine needed a different design and of course it still remains unclear what the long-term will be with the new design.

https://mbworld.org/forums/w213-amg/...age-e63-2.html

Also, this is a link to the sticky where there are many RMS discussions that further debate, whether or not driving it or not driving, it makes a difference for people that ultimately succumb to this issue

https://mbworld.org/forums/w213-amg/...fixes-diy.html

 

If the RMS starts to leak on the W205 C63s will we need to replace the oil separators as well? Approx how much on average to get the RMS replaced?

 

yes, you need new OVS and new RMS - can't have one without the other; yes there are updated part numbers on the revised units:

https://mbworld.org/forums/w213-amg/...-2018-e63.html

actual costs and prices paid in this link:

https://mbworld.org/forums/w213-amg/...-goodwill.html


This sticky has many many links to RMS discussions with much of the latest info you need:

https://mbworld.org/forums/w213-amg/...fixes-diy.html

 

It's worth repeating that this issue appears to only affect the LS2 variant of the M177. As posted a few posts up, it needed a redesigned oil separator due to packaging reasons. The LS2 is in models such as the E63. The C63 uses the LS1 engine with a different oil separator design.

I've voiced a slightly different theory in the past. That is that these cars are driven, but mostly driven in a fairly mundane way. They are used as commuter and family cars, dawdling around in stop and go traffic or otherwise mundane A to B trips. Also many are frequently driven for short distances, which causes the oil to get contaminated with moisture and fuel, because the engine doesn't reach operating temperature long enough for the moisture and fuel to evaporate causing corrosion and the fuel starts attacking seals and washing away the lubrication. It's interesting to note that Audi for example has recognized this as a real issue and added sensors to their cars to measure the level of contamination and when it reaches a certain threshold it alerts the driver to go for a long drive. Many owners report to regularly get this alert with the kind of typical driving in North America, so this is a real issue.

While the cars are meant to be "daily driven", what does that really mean? City and stop & go traffic isn't really what they are built for. Consider that whenever I'm in Germany, daily driving means blasting down the Autobahn at 155+ mph. I used to regularly work in Northern Germany at a customer's office for a few years and had a 20 minute commute at an average speed north of 100 mph. Compare that to a commute in North America. You are lucky to exceed 45 mph. It would be interesting to see some data of the RMS failure rate on cars in Germany vs North America. Not sure if anybody has insight, but it seems reports of RMS issues come mostly from owners in North America.

While I agree that cars should be driven, at the same time my personal vehicle miles travelled have decreased significantly over the years, especially since the pandemic as I replaced many car trips with home deliveries, walkable local destinations or outright eliminated certain trips. It's been a boon for my cars. Scheduled maintenance is now annually and mostly routine stuff, no longer need new tires every year or new brakes every 18 months and the wear and tear and mileage stays low so hopefully I get to enjoy the car for several more years as I have little interest in anything the auto industry is pumping out these days and I increasingly prefer to live a car-light lifestyle with traffic happening now at all hours of the day and measurably worse than before the pandemic. Just don't really wanna be on the roads most days wasting my time. Fortunately I can do most of my daily errands on foot with much of what I need on a daily basis within a 5-10 minute walk from my house.

 

Perfectly stated. I barely drive my car anymore since 2020 as most of what I do has moved to a remote format. And the traffic in South Florida has become so much worse since 2020 it's unbelievable. Great for wear items as I've not had to buy new tires since August 2020, or new brakes since December 2020. I'm averaging about 3k miles a year now and am glad to keep the wear and tear on the car to a minimum so I can continue enjoying it for years to come.

 

During my annual service at my indy shop, they mentioned seeing some oil at the bottom of my oil pan and near the rear where transmission meets engine. Since there wasn't any oil loss or oil on my garage floor, they told me they will check again at the next annual service. RMS is just a transmission out job not engine out correct?

 

did you need new oil vapor separators?

the poster above said the c63 will not have an oil vapor separator issue ... there are several c63 m177's that had the RMS leak here in this thread/forum

another 2019 c63 needing both ovs and rms replacement
https://www.google.com/url?q=https:/...d16cetaSMv1Obv

 

Any OVS in a consumer (non-commercial) vehicle is a dubious component that has high likelihood of failure.

Filtration and condensation are the jobs the OVS needs to do. Technically demanding tasks, with incompletely engineered systems and cheaply manufactured parts. In summary, the MB solution is not up to the task.

The OVS system should be insulated and heated, and filter elements should be replaceable or cleanable. There should be a backup feature to prevent excess crankcase vacuum and pressure. The system and components have none of those characteristics, and therefore fail by blockage (plugging). The domino effects are breached seals and gaskets.

The overarching requirement is pollution control, related to crankcase emissions. The way this is done is to capture and recirculate all crankcase and fuel tank emissions and control crankcase pressure. The method and hardware used is insufficient.

 

Interesting that you say this. The above post was for a LS1 with RMS failure: https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-c63s-...ml#post9038787

And since you originally posted this another poster with the LS1 has posted their RMS failure: https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-c63s-...ml#post9098206

I'm hoping nobody else has this failure!

 

I'm not gonna rule out that it can't happen on a LS1 depending on how it's been driven. There's always a risk of it clogging. To really get to the bottom of it there is more data needed. How were those cars driven? How often was the oil changed? Climate and environmental factors? Humid or dry climate? etc. Just like anyone's fuel injector could clog or something else fail in the engine that doesn't automatically make it a widespread issue until a pattern emerges. At least so far it looks like there's a pattern with the LS2, and incidental cases with the LS1. The LS1 has been around longer than the LS2.

 

I agree with this. I have another theory that it might also be partly due to a higher HP/tune in the E63 engine compared to the c63… if true, I’d be interested to know if the c63 engines with a higher tune have had any RMS issues as well

 

And further, the precise root cause of “OVS failure” has not been definitively identified. Temperature problem? Chemical resistance problem? Component sizing problem? Too much or too little condensation? Too little filtration?

The OVS system filters particulate and condenses liquid and routes gases, using cheap plastic parts. Shortcomings in those functions lead to system failure.

The best solution I have seen so far is the dual catch can solution - 1 can for unboosted and 1 can for boosted. Long term viability of an aftermarket system like that is always not fully knowable.

 

Mine 2019 E63 had its RMS replaced at 38K. This should be a Legal Issue.

 

Hello, i'm in France, interested about buying a c63 non S coupé (476ch), produced in 2016 with m177 LS1. I've read à lot of discuss about the RMS issue and what i can see is that a lot of cars impacted have been built after 2018.
Are the C63 before 2018 potentially touched by this failure ? Dou you have concrete examples ?
I'm coming from an Audi S4 B8 whitch was a nightmare to maintain...

 

Had the thermostat go bad and throw EL. Under CPO. Shop replaced it and the oil separators under warranty.

they never mentioned the RMS. Should I bring it back and have them check it.

since I got it back the car warms much faster but I’ve noticed strange shifting (like stuck in neutral between gears when giving lots of gas) and gotten warnings about headlight low beams not working (left and right side).

any thoughts?