Rebuilt Rear ABC Valve Block Today
02-12-2013, 11:05 PM
#26
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Thread Starter
there are a few post on here on how to flush the ABC system .
02-12-2013, 11:30 PM
#27
Junior Member
Thread Starter
also a member here pointed out that there are bleed screws on the top of each strut so after the flush and rebuild you could crack them open ( very slowly ) one at a time keeping the fluid topped off while engine running till you see clean fluid . the fluid from the block to the strut never gets returned and filtered .
i have not bled the struts yet but plan to very soon .
Dave
i have not bled the struts yet but plan to very soon .
Dave
02-13-2013, 09:06 AM
#28
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C215 CL55 AMG, W124 500E, W210 E430, W124 300E
Hi,
Then your techs are wrong. I give you only one argument as to why this is.:
The ABC Oil Pentosin CHF11s has only a shelf life of 5 years UNUSED. People have phoned with the manufacturer and they said after the 5 years none of the oils advertised properties are valid/guaranteed anymore and they strongly recommend to discard it. And thats when perfectly stored and UNUSED.
Now imagine in use in the car, with countless (high-)temp and cool phases, dirt build-up, etc. Every hydraulic oil degrades over time - thats just reality.
Its just plain nonsense to think hydraulic oils are "lifetime fillings" (think about the ATF oil of the 722.6xx and 722.9xx boxes that were first advertised as lifetime fillings and later on caused massive shift issues when getting some years old - hahaha).
Also people have measured that the ABC Oil temperatures getting reduced SIGNIFICANTLY after a flush with fresh one. Based on those findings, at least companies specialized at ABC and many german forum-members with lots of ABC experience, strongly recommend to do a flush/change every 2 years or 20.000miles.
Doing so, one should get zero ABC issues fluid-related (when there is no old damage already from bad/none maintenance)
Please read at the link i provided below the second quote.
If you do raise and lower your car during a flush it gets flushed even in the struts.
Please read here (google translated), i used method "2.4" and it was super easy:
http://translate.google.de/translate...-abc1.htm%23b6
The site is from a very reputable "Official AMG Owners Club" member.
my MB tech told me to replace the ABC filter every 2 years and check the fluid level at each engine oil change. He and another factory tech said a "flush" is only recommended after major work has been done to repair the system
The ABC Oil Pentosin CHF11s has only a shelf life of 5 years UNUSED. People have phoned with the manufacturer and they said after the 5 years none of the oils advertised properties are valid/guaranteed anymore and they strongly recommend to discard it. And thats when perfectly stored and UNUSED.
Now imagine in use in the car, with countless (high-)temp and cool phases, dirt build-up, etc. Every hydraulic oil degrades over time - thats just reality.
Its just plain nonsense to think hydraulic oils are "lifetime fillings" (think about the ATF oil of the 722.6xx and 722.9xx boxes that were first advertised as lifetime fillings and later on caused massive shift issues when getting some years old - hahaha).
Also people have measured that the ABC Oil temperatures getting reduced SIGNIFICANTLY after a flush with fresh one. Based on those findings, at least companies specialized at ABC and many german forum-members with lots of ABC experience, strongly recommend to do a flush/change every 2 years or 20.000miles.
Doing so, one should get zero ABC issues fluid-related (when there is no old damage already from bad/none maintenance)
Please read at the link i provided below the second quote.
the fluid from the block to the strut never gets returned and filtered .
i have not bled the struts yet but plan to very soon .
i have not bled the struts yet but plan to very soon .
Please read here (google translated), i used method "2.4" and it was super easy:
http://translate.google.de/translate...-abc1.htm%23b6
The site is from a very reputable "Official AMG Owners Club" member.
Last edited by Crissus; 02-13-2013 at 09:13 AM.
02-13-2013, 10:11 AM
#29
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Hi,
Then your techs are wrong. I give you only one argument as to why this is.:
The ABC Oil Pentosin CHF11s has only a shelf life of 5 years UNUSED. People have phoned with the manufacturer and they said after the 5 years none of the oils advertised properties are valid/guaranteed anymore and they strongly recommend to discard it. And thats when perfectly stored and UNUSED.
Now imagine in use in the car, with countless (high-)temp and cool phases, dirt build-up, etc. Every hydraulic oil degrades over time - thats just reality.
Its just plain nonsense to think hydraulic oils are "lifetime fillings" (think about the ATF oil of the 722.6xx and 722.9xx boxes that were first advertised as lifetime fillings and later on caused massive shift issues when getting some years old - hahaha).
Also people have measured that the ABC Oil temperatures getting reduced SIGNIFICANTLY after a flush with fresh one. Based on those findings, at least companies specialized at ABC and many german forum-members with lots of ABC experience, strongly recommend to do a flush/change every 2 years or 20.000miles.
Doing so, one should get zero ABC issues fluid-related (when there is no old damage already from bad/none maintenance)
Please read at the link i provided below the second quote.
If you do raise and lower your car during a flush it gets flushed even in the struts.
Please read here (google translated), i used method "2.4" and it was super easy:
http://translate.google.de/translate...-abc1.htm%23b6
The site is from a very reputable "Official AMG Owners Club" member.
Then your techs are wrong. I give you only one argument as to why this is.:
The ABC Oil Pentosin CHF11s has only a shelf life of 5 years UNUSED. People have phoned with the manufacturer and they said after the 5 years none of the oils advertised properties are valid/guaranteed anymore and they strongly recommend to discard it. And thats when perfectly stored and UNUSED.
Now imagine in use in the car, with countless (high-)temp and cool phases, dirt build-up, etc. Every hydraulic oil degrades over time - thats just reality.
Its just plain nonsense to think hydraulic oils are "lifetime fillings" (think about the ATF oil of the 722.6xx and 722.9xx boxes that were first advertised as lifetime fillings and later on caused massive shift issues when getting some years old - hahaha).
Also people have measured that the ABC Oil temperatures getting reduced SIGNIFICANTLY after a flush with fresh one. Based on those findings, at least companies specialized at ABC and many german forum-members with lots of ABC experience, strongly recommend to do a flush/change every 2 years or 20.000miles.
Doing so, one should get zero ABC issues fluid-related (when there is no old damage already from bad/none maintenance)
Please read at the link i provided below the second quote.
If you do raise and lower your car during a flush it gets flushed even in the struts.
Please read here (google translated), i used method "2.4" and it was super easy:
http://translate.google.de/translate...-abc1.htm%23b6
The site is from a very reputable "Official AMG Owners Club" member.
03-06-2013, 09:49 PM
#32
Junior Member
Thread Starter
did the rebuild on the front block today , a bit more difficult to remove then the rear but same rebuild process once the block is out .
take the front left wheel off / front inner wheel well and front lower cover across bottom of car .
one thing different then the rear is the solenoids had nylon spacers and not the square o-ring spacers like the rear had .
front must have been an updated solenoid ? because when i did the rear block the square o-rings were shot and coming apart .
the o-rings in both front and rear blocks were very hard and needed replaced . also changed my inner-cooler pump to the new updated bosch , good time to do it while you have the front lower cover removed
here is a picture of the front solenoids before i changed the o-rings , notice the white nylon spacers unlike the rear with the square o-rings .
take the front left wheel off / front inner wheel well and front lower cover across bottom of car .
one thing different then the rear is the solenoids had nylon spacers and not the square o-ring spacers like the rear had .
front must have been an updated solenoid ? because when i did the rear block the square o-rings were shot and coming apart .
the o-rings in both front and rear blocks were very hard and needed replaced . also changed my inner-cooler pump to the new updated bosch , good time to do it while you have the front lower cover removed
here is a picture of the front solenoids before i changed the o-rings , notice the white nylon spacers unlike the rear with the square o-rings .
03-07-2013, 12:28 AM
#33
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124.052 230.374
i agree with crissus
there isnt a 'bleed screw' in the top of ANY ABC strut.. .. opening the REAL bleed valves and letting the weight of the car push most of the fluid out has worked for me many times..i dont think id unscrew that sensor in the top unless i had to..and so far i havent had to. lol.. Pentosin chf11 is nothing but a synthetic hyd fluid thats loaded down with additives to give it an unusually HIGH combustion temp..its the MB quest for safety that is at the basis of that stuff.. so yes i can see how the mfr would insist that it has a short shelf life.. its not easy to make a NON flammable hydralic fluid but thats what it ALMOST is... i also agree that almost all ABC problems can be traced to lck of periodic fluid /filter changes.... even tho looking carefully at the owners manual of my 03 SL55 i see nothing mentioned as to when it should be replaced.. 2yr/20k sounds reasonable to me..when i worked at the dealer i had 2 cars that i remember with less than 2000 miles each that leaked down . these cars mostly sat unused tho.. one belonged to Mandy Dilliard ( yes THAT Dilliard) and i had to go up to ther mansion to get the car to raise up because it was stuck inna unusual spot and the tires were tearing up the fender lips on herSL65..the car wouldnt respond to height button inputs..i had to pressurize the resevoir thru the dipstick hole with a portable air tank.. i tried that onna whim and have used the trick ever since
03-08-2013, 12:41 AM
#34
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2002 Mercedes-Benz CL55 AMG
This is a great thread, along with that link on flushing. I know at some point I will have to replace my ABC pump - any suggestions on where to purchase that, is the dealer the best place? Or is there a good OEM parts source that forum members are using?
I agree that regular filter changes and oil flush/replace is the best strategy for this system. Yes ABC takes a bit more care and money to maintain, but a 2 hour drive to the coast through winding roads will remind us why it's all worth it.
When I replace my pump I'll do all 4 valve blocks as well. (Unless they need it sooner - in which case I'll do the pump as well, my car has 136K).
Now - what about the 'struts' themselves? Any issues with these needing replacement? If so, at what miles typically?
I agree that regular filter changes and oil flush/replace is the best strategy for this system. Yes ABC takes a bit more care and money to maintain, but a 2 hour drive to the coast through winding roads will remind us why it's all worth it.
When I replace my pump I'll do all 4 valve blocks as well. (Unless they need it sooner - in which case I'll do the pump as well, my car has 136K).
Now - what about the 'struts' themselves? Any issues with these needing replacement? If so, at what miles typically?
03-08-2013, 06:14 AM
#37
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124.052 230.374
i would replace the front and 2 rear 'pressure resevoirs' too.. they arent that expensive i found one bad on my car they tend to last about 10 yrs.. they are also called Cells or accumalators.. Mb has been using them for years on the rear of the wagons and only when BOTH go bad do people realize something is wrong.. the wagons would ride like there wernt any shocks at all just a solid link.. which since hyd fluid is non compressible thats pretty much exactly takes place..its kinda hard to explain but they are a softball size pressure vessel thats has a rubber diaphram down the middle and one half is charged with nitrogen .. if u ever noticed ABC fluid mysteriously spilled around the resevoir.. what happened was one of the cells ruptured and the gas charge suddenly got injected into the ABC fluid and blew a helluva lot of bubbles into the system but you'll find the fluid level somewhat ok because it was a temporary mayhem condition inside the resevoir..they are charged with 150 bar so imagine what happens when they burst.. it also will set Lo system pressure DTC as a stored code only and the ride gets alittle harsh when only one goes..ABC uses 4 .2 for actual dampening (one front one rear and one for RETURN asssist.. not sure exactly how that one plays in.. and the other is a smaller 'pulsation dampener located on drivers fenderwell (back side) theres no way to determine the condition if it isnt ruptured (ive tried to see if diaphram is cracked on a good used one and its not visible.. people overlook those things
03-08-2013, 06:24 AM
#38
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124.052 230.374
They are the key to true ABC comfort because they provide INSTANT hi pressure fluid when needed instead of having the pump constanly beeing hit with fluid requests like a random stacoto.. also make sure the bottom of each strut isnt loose especially the fronts.. if u hear /feel clacking or even minor holes in the road check the balljoints on the bottom of the front struts.. there will be easily seen play if u lift the tire up its jacked up .. i still havent fixed the ones on my car cuz i just recently noticed and so far i cant find replacements without buying whole strut .. but it looks like a regular ball joint so im still looking into it.. with as mileage as yours has they are probably due..
04-11-2013, 10:36 PM
#41
04-16-2013, 12:29 AM
#42
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2004 Cl 55 AMG
Car in Shop for ABC problem now!
i would replace the front and 2 rear 'pressure resevoirs' too.. they arent that expensive i found one bad on my car they tend to last about 10 yrs.. they are also called Cells or accumalators.. Mb has been using them for years on the rear of the wagons and only when BOTH go bad do people realize something is wrong.. the wagons would ride like there wernt any shocks at all just a solid link.. which since hyd fluid is non compressible thats pretty much exactly takes place..its kinda hard to explain but they are a softball size pressure vessel thats has a rubber diaphram down the middle and one half is charged with nitrogen .. if u ever noticed ABC fluid mysteriously spilled around the resevoir.. what happened was one of the cells ruptured and the gas charge suddenly got injected into the ABC fluid and blew a helluva lot of bubbles into the system but you'll find the fluid level somewhat ok because it was a temporary mayhem condition inside the resevoir..they are charged with 150 bar so imagine what happens when they burst.. it also will set Lo system pressure DTC as a stored code only and the ride gets alittle harsh when only one goes..ABC uses 4 .2 for actual dampening (one front one rear and one for RETURN asssist.. not sure exactly how that one plays in.. and the other is a smaller 'pulsation dampener located on drivers fenderwell (back side) theres no way to determine the condition if it isnt ruptured (ive tried to see if diaphram is cracked on a good used one and its not visible.. people overlook those things
09-07-2013, 03:38 PM
#43
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2001 S55 AMG
Draining the old fluid
Hi, and thanks for all great advice. I have removed my front valve block and started cleaning it.
I have a couple of questions:
How do I drain/flush out the old fluid?
My 2001 S55 has two reservoirs. I assume one for the front and one for the rear. Which one is which?
Thanks
Hans
I have a couple of questions:
How do I drain/flush out the old fluid?
My 2001 S55 has two reservoirs. I assume one for the front and one for the rear. Which one is which?
Thanks
Hans
10-16-2013, 02:59 PM
#44
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CL500
Which size O rings ?
Hi, Im having similar probs with the front end of the car. I think the front valve block is to blame. I believe the front and rear valve blocks are the same. Could you tell me what size O rings are required ? Thanks
03-03-2014, 12:35 PM
#45
MBWorld Fanatic!
Abc valves
If you tackle this job be very careful the two valves with the springs are check valves,there are plungers inside with Teflon lipped seals looks like a one piece o ring ,it's not which I found out ,so leave it alone unless you have access to them,i ordered some from mcmaster ,hope they work,the other black o rings are regular o rings
03-03-2014, 02:00 PM
#46
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CL500
Its ok now. I bought a second hand valve block on ebay and just swapped the entire valve block. Ive cleaned the old one up as I think it was just a build up of muck causing the prob in the first place. but those O rings are a nightmare to replace not because of the job but their sizes are very uncommon. Unable to find correct size anywhere.
03-03-2014, 03:59 PM
#47
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McMaster loaded bi directional ptfe seals 9656k13 that's what I ordered they are like exact dimensions ill let you know if they work
03-19-2014, 04:47 PM
#48
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CLK430
Hi I need my 2003 s55 rear rebuild, I live in the Bay Area Hayward Cali if anyone is near to help, can pay with a deep discount 
. My driver side rear has been sagging lately. My phone number is 510-862-8072, I preferred text
. My driver side rear has been sagging lately. My phone number is 510-862-8072, I preferred text
05-10-2014, 09:13 PM
#49
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2004 S 55 AMG
I bought a '' like new valve'' and I try to rebuild the old one but the o rings in the cylinder where bad but nothing fits in there from the o ring set any ideas ?
05-11-2014, 09:58 AM
#50
MBWorld Fanatic!
JD Powers is reason for no ABC maintenance
[QUOTE=mbcoupe57;5570046 i also agree that almost all ABC problems can be traced to lck of periodic fluid /filter changes.... even tho looking carefully at the owners manual of my 03 SL55 i see nothing mentioned as to when it should be replaced.. [/QUOTE]
An experienced MB SA from a "galaxy far far away" from me told me that there is no periodic ABC fluid maintenance in the Owners Service Book because this would lead to a huge $$$$ spike in the "Overall Cost of Ownership" (here in NA, anyway) in the J.D. Powers survey. You can just guess the negative headlines this would get...
One wonders how many other brands/marques do the same thing. For example, last I checked BMW has a 15K mile oil change interval. Thus lower cost of ownership....
Remember that most people keep their aspirational brands for less than 3 years so if there is a problem it gets covered under the warranty in many cases...
BTW if anyone is interested in knowing a service facility in southern NE and the NY/NJ metro area that actually understands how to service ABC properly and completely at a fair price please drop me a PM.
Grane
An experienced MB SA from a "galaxy far far away" from me told me that there is no periodic ABC fluid maintenance in the Owners Service Book because this would lead to a huge $$$$ spike in the "Overall Cost of Ownership" (here in NA, anyway) in the J.D. Powers survey. You can just guess the negative headlines this would get...
One wonders how many other brands/marques do the same thing. For example, last I checked BMW has a 15K mile oil change interval. Thus lower cost of ownership....
Remember that most people keep their aspirational brands for less than 3 years so if there is a problem it gets covered under the warranty in many cases...
BTW if anyone is interested in knowing a service facility in southern NE and the NY/NJ metro area that actually understands how to service ABC properly and completely at a fair price please drop me a PM.
Grane
