LaserSVT

Just as the title states, if you dont mind sharing what horsepower and what torque with what mods is your CL55/500/65/600 making at the wheels?

I will share mine when I get the final numbers on Thursday as well as the mod list.

Dr Matt

614/722 according to the dyno. However, the HP based on ET & MPH at the track indicates more than that give a race weight of 4786#. Like others here I am looking forward to your numbers, but I'd be inclined to say the M275 is just not a dyno breaker. Rather see track #'s from an "ideal" run by racer who knows how to set up, launch, controil IAT's, etc with you on a good set of drag radials. MPH & ET tells more, just like 70-130 WOT pulls. Things like weather, DA, IAT's, wind can still make a huge difference though.

LaserSVT

Is that on pump gas?

Dr Matt

VP MS109. Never really got a good pull due to a few issues and not being familiar with the car. Tried to dyno another time at a different facility but the dyno operator knew everything and did not listen to me at all, what could I possibly know about how to make my car perform compared to him right? Only made mid 400's at the tire that time. He told me the car clearly had problems or was just not as powerful as I thought. He went on to say apparently a lot of Subaru owners find the same problem once they dyno their cars too, lol. With no changes except tires it ran 10.80 @ 128 a week later. Pretty fast for a car that only made mid 400's at the tire and weighs over 4700#. Guy was a tool.

principledchiro

Thank you V12 TT BB's (Benz Brothers). I've yet to Dyno or Track but will when bolt-on mods have been met...2006 CL55 AMG with somewhere between a Eurocharged Stage II and III bolt on mods minus larger throttle body (Stage III). According to Eurocharged Stage II is something like 610/660 BHP/TRQ. Stage III 650/690 BHP/TRQ. Eurocharged updated their website and no longer post Stages of modifications and their performance gains. At the present Yellow Speed Racing Sport coil overs are going in due to ABC failure...then back to motor (82mm TB, 550 injectors, looped rail) and differential (Quiafe LSD with 3.06 rear gears). Goal is to achieve as close to 550 at the wheels. Present Mods: DTK 77mm CP, DTK TCM, H/E, K&N filters in stock intake, UPD beltwrap kit, Kleeman midlength headers to 200 cell sport cats, deleted secondary cats, X-pipe, stock resonators and mufflers. Rennen staggered 19" wheels and tires (F:255/35 R: 295/30).

LaserSVT

Yeah Matt, I am doing a dual tune on mine after we discovered the car does not like the ACES IV fuel treatment. So it will have a pump tune and a MS109 tune. So far the pump tune looks nice.

Dr Matt

I run my 109 tune all the time. The W215 M275 just de-tunes itself after a couple hits once I fill the car back up with pump gas after a weekend at the track on 109. I originally asked Eurocharged for a "winter" tune, an aggressive summer tune, and a 109 tune. They did it, but said it was not necessary and I could just run the 109 tune all of the time. Took me a while to be willing to try it, but I've been on my 109 tune for over 2 years now, most of the time with 90 octane ("premium") here in the tank.

LaserSVT

I dont think the 216 can do that. It may to a point but I will have selectable boost levels to switch between pump and MS109. I would love to run MS109 all the time but at $420 for 54 gallons and a car that gets like 9MPG its not that feasible. Granted the car will only see a couple thousand miles a year as I have plenty of other cars for dailys. lol

Dr Matt

$420 for a drum??! Holy COW, it is over $900/drum here!!!!

LaserSVT

Yeah I really lucked out. VP is local and they quoted $823 shipped. Another local place said $700 but a buddy has a race shop and orders a dozen at a time and said I can have them at $420 a barrel.

LaserSVT

So we have any more people that wanna share their numbers?

AMG-Driver

I would share from my SL65, but we don't measure to the wheels in Germany.

The numbers of tuned cars are in a lot of threads here in this forum - Race Horse seems to be the highest CL65 like 640 WHP on a Dynojet with stock turbos or DUDMD like 600 WHP on a Mustang Dyno.

In Germany I know of a special built SL65 Black Series (bigger turbos) with approx. 830 WHP on Pump and a little over 900 WHP on race gas.

LaserSVT

If you dont measure the horse power at the wheels how do you measure it and how do you know one has 830 whp?

BTW, the stock internals wont handle 830 rwhp on pump. Well not for more than a couple runs so I assume it has forged internals.

So what does your SL make and how was it tested?

AMG-Driver

It is complicated and a long story to convert from Crank to wheel. Written in another thread about it. Not possible with only a certain percentage, the losses must be measured from the dyno itself when it is rolling out. Also different correction factors come into play SAE vs. EWG or DIN.

Wheel is very different depending on MAHA, SUPERFLOW, DYNOJET, MUSTANG.
They numbers cannot be compared to each other.

Mine was measured Crank on a MAHA 3000 and was 685HP with software only. Stock it had 610HP so seems accurate to european factory output 612 HP.

The Sl65 BS was measured Crank on a Superflow Dyno 930 HP and with race gas 1015 HP. I have seen the dynosheets.

On a Dynojet, from charts I have seen RWP is approx. 100HP lower than a correct Crank Reading, so I would translate this reading to approx. 830RWP and a little over 900 RWP on a Dynojet.

After all Dyno numbers can be only compared accurate on same dyno, same time.

LaserSVT

All you have said is true and the variances are in line except the driveline loss. A typical NAG1 will lose about 21-28% depending on application. So an engine making 1000hp on an engine dyno will make 850ish on a chassis dyno (depending on brand and if its a static load or what have you). For instance I specialize in Ford Modulars and a Mark VIII with a 4R70W is rated at 295 crank but sees 223 rwhp where as a Non SC Cobra with the same engine has a 305 crank rating and will see 250ish with a 3650 manual behind it or an LS6 Vette rated at 435 will see around 387 with a T56 behind it or the new ZL1 is rated at 650 crank but makes 608 through its wonderfully effecient 10 speed auto.

But our cars will lose at least 25% through the driveline.

For instance my CL65 is currently making 624 rwhp and 755tq on pump which is about 850ish at the crank, Should have MS109 numbers today.

AMG-Driver

I'm sorry I have not the time at the moment to go more in depth. i have written here in the forum in a thread from DUDMD, and uploaded my own Dyno-Sheet to show the measured losses on a MAHA 3000 before and after tuning on my car.

You cannot take 25% from a stock car and after tuning again 25% from the tuned output. When the losses stock were 100HP the real losses are also nearly 100HP AFTER the tuning (only a little more).

This is the most important misunderstanding between European and American Tuning.

624 rwhp on a Dynojet are far away from 850 Correct - HP Crank reading. I would translate roughly to 720- max. 740 Crank-HP.

Here a lot of Dynosheets from Stock SL65 on a Dynojet, when I remember correctly 510 RWP to 520 RWP . Assuming the cars were in normal condition you can see how much losses are to 604 American Crank HP or 612 European Crank HP. So you see, that the losses on a stock car are roughly 100HP.

principledchiro

Yes, this is more reasonable and explains how the manufacturer reached stock HP at the crank, and not to deduct another 25% after tune. Didn't realize that the driveline losses were this much, as opposed to 17% that we are more familiar with.

LaserSVT

No, those losses are apx 20%. A 612 rated car generally puts down a 514ish number unless its a Mustang Dyno where it does around 508-510. Yes thats 100hp but its also 20-21% as is per usual of the NAG1. I have seen it time and time again as I build many many many, SRT8 Dodges, Mustang Cobras, F-Body Camaros, 5th gen Camaros, Corvettes and similar cars. I have learned NAGs take 20-22%, 4R70Ws take apx 17-18%, 4L80E takes 16-17%, 6L80E takes about 16% almost always, T5, T56, TR6060 all take about 11%, E11 (Audi) is really nice at 10% and the new 8 and 10 speed autos absorb only 7-9%. I spend ridiculous time tuning on dynos with the dozens of cars I build every year.

AMG-Driver

When I have a stock SL65 with 612 European HP and deduct 17% the losses are 104,04 HP, and this seems quite accurate = 510 RWP on a Dynojet. But we have to look closely again on the dynosheets from a stock car on a dynojet here on MBWorld - maybe it is 17-20%.

But 25% must be too much for calculation on a stock SL65 car.

LaserSVT

612- 104 = 508 which is roughly 19%. Being a hand built engine they are required to make 612. Some make more. I have seen this with Cobras and ZR1s. There are some that are just stronger from the factory.

Alas we are getting off topic.

I just am curious what everyone is making and with what modifications.

AMG-Driver

One question : Is the 624RWP from you already with the Eurocharged Tune on Pump Gas or with the Speeddriven tune?

LaserSVT

Team effort of Euro and Marcin from Speed and on pump gas.

The car did dyno at 510rwhp box stock (no tq number) which is about a 20% drivetrain loss.

1ForcedBenz

My W220 with billet turbos is 620whp 850rwtq. W215 with billet wheel turbos down pipes ext as well made around 640whp and 870rwtq.

My w216 with billet wheels, down pipes, intake, etc, makes 620ishwhp and low 800s rwtq

LaserSVT

Is that on pump or race gas?

1ForcedBenz

All my vehicles are on pump fuel tunes. I run ms109 time to time and the ecu will adjust on the 220/215 but my 216 I don't notice any thing. But all were dyno'd on pump 93.

I personally see no reason the 65/600 can't handle 800whp stock. They don't lack Torque, if the Torque is kept in check but just held throughout the rpms the bottom end will be fine. It's not asking for much hp per hole on the v12. The rods and pistons with proper tuning will be fine. At one point I put a 150 shot on a 600 I owned and sprayed it for years with a tune that pulled timing. It was around 750whp on the spray.