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My 2005 CL65 has 222000 miles on it and its basically worthless. So I've decided to install a new drive-train. LS3, twin-turbo, remove the ABC system. I don't expect to get any love from the MB community but I'll post pictures and videos, think of it as a
(DON'T DO THIS WARNING THREAD)
SOMETHING LIKE THIS
SOMETHING LIKE THIS
Last edited by driveability; 01-04-2018 at 11:47 PM.
Reason: pictures
I get the bit about going fast - but going faster in your '65? Or is that not what it's about? I know you've had some problems with ABC and more recently with fuel injectors, but is there some underlying cause for concern with the engine itself?
Mercedes have very integrated systems, and I appreciate the challenge and all that, but how are going to do all the little things, like open the doors and start the engine etc?
If you just want to go fast, why not do the same drivetrain in something else? Whilst your CL may be relatively worthless it's still a unique and special car in my opinion.
It will be a lot of work, when the same end result can be achieved with a different car where everything doesn't talk to everything else.
Sell the 65 and buy a 500 or 55. With the additional money, you can put it back into your project.
I am all for your project but it will be incredibly expensive and time consuming. You may be better off with new turbos and having it tuned. That will be cheaper and produce the 1000 HP you desire.
If you go this route, you may want to go a little bigger and shoot for 1,500 hp. Go big or go home. Maybe a twin turbo big block.
I'm guessing there is a level of attachment with this car. It would take many of us combine to have the seat time of enjoyment he has with the miles he has driven this car. His dedication to maintenance has come at a cost over the years. Let's face it, sadly the car has little to no future with the mileage and wear and tear. If sold for $9-10k at best, it would most like be abused and end up in a junkyard within a year or two either broken down or wrecked from being in the wrong hands at a cheap entry price.
Of course an all out build on a blown motor or bad tranny CL500 may be cheaper and retain the look, but he already has this car. Considering the low production numbers of CL65s it's sad, but this car was enjoyed more than most and it's pretty used up. If he can hang on to it, in one form or another, a new lease on life will be better than passing it on.
As far as the coil over swap, it seems far from perfection. Everything I read comes to bouncing or tough time adjusting the ride height while maintaing the proper stiffness. Based on some of his previous fabrication pictures, I'm guessing he'll end up building his own setup all together.
I have a 1979 Coupe de Ville with sentimental values. It's in decent shape, just underpowered based on today's standards. One day I plan to do a modern motor&tranny swap, probably from a CTS-V to keep it in the caddy family. I see where he is coming from.
I wish you the best of luck with the project with many more years of W215 enjoyment.
I think it is a very interesting project! Do you plan to piggyback a motec controller or pro efi? Is that even feasible? Cant wait to see how you control all systems.
I would love to know just how I am going to (if I do ?) integrate the multiple systems. The biggest drawback I see beyond the obvious *******ization is to loose the
traction and stabilization systems employed by Mercedes. I would like to keep the cost down, it's not that I'm cheep just you can spend 10k on something that ether doesn't work or adds little value in the long run. Make rather than buy is what I do first. My mid engine 914 with the ls6, G50 6 speed, 996 complete suspension and electric power steering was fun to build but I sold it because frankly it scared me. So fast, quick with no added electronic safety system. On a race track it's fine but not so much on wet Washington state rural roads. HST, I regret selling it !!! Heres a pic of it !!!
I would leave the V12. That is just me. Work with the V12 and tune it but if you are looking to really get crazy however then by all means. Since like you said the car is near worthless then go do whatever. I assume and no offense but your CL65 is not perfect by anyways given the high miles? I think with that being said it would be good car to try this out on. Definitely do the ABC delete. I will do one for my 2006 CL600 if it goes bad someday.
Will be virtually impossible to retain the OEM traction/ESP system. ABS may be possible but I wouldn't count on it. I think you will end up in the same boat, the car will be a stupidly powerful 5000lb car, and will be just too much to drive around and enjoy lol. Sounds great to me though.
There are a lot of interesting ideas, but if you are looking to retain some of the refinements such as traction control, ABS and most of the comfort electronics, maybe keeping the V12TT and stock ECU is not a bad option. Being the hands on guy that you are, would you ever consider doing a stock rebuild on the motor to freshen it up then a tune and bolt ons? It seems every V12TT build turns into guys shooting for the stars when there are always tuning issues and the TCU has been proven to have its limitations with torque management. Also,the big turbo lag associated with those cars, never helped a heavy car off the line. The V12TTs do not need any more top end, so I don't see the point of aftermarket turbos when you can maximize the stock turbo without tuning issues. This route might be less power then what a LSX motor can produce, but it might come in around the same cost with less headaches.
My current ECU/TCU catless downpipe setup with race gas and cool weather has got to be close to 700WHP and 900 FT/LBS of torque at the wheels. I don't think these are exaggerated numbers like some tuners have shown in the past. I can back them up with time slips and unfortunately some broken parts(I gotta stay away from the track). There is plenty of wheel spin on the street even with widened wheels and an LSD, but it can also be mild mannered and driven to a wedding without being noticed. The problem is the stock drive train cannot handle all the torque the stock turbos are capable of with the right bolt ons.
Considering any kind of big power build would require replacing the tranny, rear and axles. If you ask me, if you are serious about these power levels you gotta be insane about removing ABC suspension. That is the very thing that keeps the car stable at speeds and don't think for a second with a 1,000 HP you won't see 170+MPH. I'm sure MB spent a ton of time and money for the R&D to know just how much to lower the car at speeds along with the pressure and firmness needed to keep a long wheel based, 4600 lb car planted. I wish the ABC was not so high maintenance, but when it works the car performs as intended. To me, the coil overs become guess work, trial and error and risky at high speeds.
These are a just a couple more ideas and opinions, either way I think sooner or later you gotta retire the ol' girl from being a daily driver. It will nice to see the "RaceHorse" turned out to pasture as opposed to being sent to the glue factory.
There are a lot of interesting ideas, but if you are looking to retain some of the refinements such as traction control, ABS and most of the comfort electronics, maybe keeping the V12TT and stock ECU is not a bad option. Being the hands on guy that you are, would you ever consider doing a stock rebuild on the motor to freshen it up then a tune and bolt ons? It seems every V12TT build turns into guys shooting for the stars when there are always tuning issues and the TCU has been proven to have its limitations with torque management. Also,the big turbo lag associated with those cars, never helped a heavy car off the line. The V12TTs do not need any more top end, so I don't see the point of aftermarket turbos when you can maximize the stock turbo without tuning issues. This route might be less power then what a LSX motor can produce, but it might come in around the same cost with less headaches.
My current ECU/TCU catless downpipe setup with race gas and cool weather has got to be close to 700WHP and 900 FT/LBS of torque at the wheels. I don't think these are exaggerated numbers like some tuners have shown in the past. I can back them up with time slips and unfortunately some broken parts(I gotta stay away from the track). There is plenty of wheel spin on the street even with widened wheels and an LSD, but it can also be mild mannered and driven to a wedding without being noticed. The problem is the stock drive train cannot handle all the torque the stock turbos are capable of with the right bolt ons.
Considering any kind of big power build would require replacing the tranny, rear and axles. If you ask me, if you are serious about these power levels you gotta be insane about removing ABC suspension. That is the very thing that keeps the car stable at speeds and don't think for a second with a 1,000 HP you won't see 170+MPH. I'm sure MB spent a ton of time and money for the R&D to know just how much to lower the car at speeds along with the pressure and firmness needed to keep a long wheel based, 4600 lb car planted. I wish the ABC was not so high maintenance, but when it works the car performs as intended. To me, the coil overs become guess work, trial and error and risky at high speeds.
These are a just a couple more ideas and opinions, either way I think sooner or later you gotta retire the ol' girl from being a daily driver. It will nice to see the "RaceHorse" turned out to pasture as opposed to being sent to the glue factory.
I agree completely.
On a side note, are you on stock turbo wheels as well as turbos?
If you ask me, if you are serious about these power levels you gotta be insane about removing ABC suspension.
Before deciding to ditch ABC for coil-overs, I would urge anyone to first try fitting rear wheels and tires to the front. I know its difficult with the W215 S65 because of the different offsets, but I think it would be worth the effort.
I've done a lot of things to my cars, some remedial and some improvements, but this was probably the best of all. A square configuration with plenty of rubber is a joy, and opens the door on what ABC can really do.
Nick
Last edited by Welwynnick; 01-12-2018 at 10:08 AM.
Might not get to 1000hp, but what about adding Soft Nitrous (50-150hp) to stock Tuned only?
I thought the record was a stock CL600 with a Corvette soft nitrous setup?
The nag1 again is going to be the hiccup if you truly want to approach the 1000/1000 goal. If you are going down this road, may as well plan on a th400 now. Integration with the LS and any standalone will be much smoother as well vs a Nag1 integration.
so I put the car back together, I did clean the plugs and test the coils for basic spark. Number 10 cylinder only produced spark from one coil. Installed a new radiator, replaced the ABC line to nowhere ( actuarially just caped it at the bend) .I was thinking about installing another Pulsator on that line ??? The car runs on all 12 and very well. I guess we know something, it will run on only one coil per cylinder. I suspect it will misfire at hard throttle but I haven't pressed it. I'm thinking about selling the car.
so I put the car back together, I did clean the plugs and test the coils for basic spark. Number 10 cylinder only produced spark from one coil. Installed a new radiator, replaced the ABC line to nowhere ( actuarially just caped it at the bend) .I was thinking about installing another Pulsator on that line ??? The car runs on all 12 and very well. I guess we know something, it will run on only one coil per cylinder. I suspect it will misfire at hard throttle but I haven't pressed it. I'm thinking about selling the car.
What wiring pinout did you use to test the coils off the car?
What wiring pinout did you use to test the coils off the car?
Static testing, Crank the engine and LOOK. Then I narrowed the gap on the bad looking tower to almost zero, in this case no spark was present. Dead coil or its control circuit. So I didn't go any further but surely one could. I don't have that data, good enough for now.
So I'm starting the engine, transmission and suspension reassignment project. I'm stripping the 65 down. There must be a ton of plastic, steel and aluminum coming out of this car ! Looking at options, surely it will be a LSX variant. Likely turbo rather than supercharger. Looking at the general size difference from the M275 to the LSX there will be a big weight savings. In first place is a 427 plus CID twin turbo. Using a newer 8 speed automatic. I'll start a new thread soon.
12-31-2017, 01:51 AM
