PaystarCEO

EXTENDED CRANK ISSUE IS SOLVED.

Fuel Pump required replacing

A huge thanks to ctravis595
Explained exactly the same problem, and the detailed solution ... and even corrected the dealerships prognosis.
To see the detailed solution just scroll down to ctravis595’s post.

Thank you everyone!
I am once again loving my car!!!!

-—————————
I’m absolutely loving my car ... Still!! I bought it 3 years ago with just over 16,000 miles on it, and I’ve put over 20,000 miles on it since.

But now Ive encountered my first problem!

It all started with an “extended ignition” ... my words for the car taking longer than normal to start. It was struggling to catch and then after 3 seconds or so the engine would start and the car worked perfectly. I KNEW I should have taken it in right away to get it checked out, but because the car ran well I became complacent. Then last week I went to start it and now I don’t even get an ignition attempt. There’s lots of battery power (I believe because all the lights work etc.).

I will add this - the start button on my gear shift is sticking, so I wonder if that might have something to go with the problem. When it does stick I tap it s few times and it comes loose. (Has a starter button sticking happened to anyone else before?)

in any case, I ASSUME it’s the starter, but thought I’d ask you folks if it could be something different, before having it taken in to get repaired.

Thanks,

Thanks

MooksM275

Sorry to hear you are having issues. Extended crank generally is ignition related and could be a coil pack on the way out or ignition transformer. Are you saying that when you turn the key now there is nothing and the engine does not even turn over? or does it turn over but never fires? Any sound when you turn the key?

PaystarCEO

No sound any longer.
Incidentally, I had the car in for its Series B and they came back with about $11K in suggested repairs including replacing the coils.
I declined at the time but probably should have posted THAT up looking for advice THEN, rather than dealing with this NOW.

Thoughts?

PaystarCEO

I just tried the car and actually there was a click click click sound when I tried the ignition again.

Just an fyi

pawraw

The first thing I'd check is the battery. Take it out and have it tested, there are auto part stores that do it for free. I have had batteries die just like you are experiencing - work one minute and not the next. The clicking you are hearing sounds like the starter is not getting enough power. Bad connections / ground ?

MooksM275

Check battery first as was said. Just because your lights work does not necessarily mean there is enough juice to get the engine started. Battery is in trunk on passenger side. Take it out and have tested. Very rare for starter to go out on these especially with low miles
Im guessing its simply battery and the long crank might have even had something to do with it.

Best,

Das Geld 2

sounds like a battery, don't discount that just yet.

slonar21

MooksM275

Crank position sensor faults generally cause the engine to turn over but never fires. Here, the owner says the engine is not turning over by the starter at all just a click. Do not think crank sensor is culprit.

PaystarCEO

I have AAA coming over right now to check the battery out.
I'll let everyone know the results shortly.

PaystarCEO

UPDATE
AAA came and charged the battery and the car started up immediately.
So we ASSUMED it was the battery.
However, the battery was having a tough time building up cranking power (I'm probably misstating the words here) and stated I might still have issues getting the car started.
He suggested I let the car run for 30 minutes and then see what happens.
I let the car run for 30 and then drove it to an appointment for another 30 minutes.
When I came back out, the car once again had an extended cranking time before finally starting the engine.
So I headed to the AAA service center to get the battery checked out and possibly changed.
The technicians at the AAA center checked the battery and said it was actually testing out fine, but that it sounded like the problem was with the starter.
I explained my battery had died the week before AND once it was charged up again, the car started immediately ... concluding that it sure seemed like a battery issue to me.
We all stood around the car, when a technician stepped up and stated he wanted to show us something.
He got in the car, put the key in the ignition and turned it.
Once again the car exhibited a long crank session ... but BEFORE the car started he turned the key off.
He did that 2 times, preventing an extended cranking from happening.
Then the third time he tried it, and the car started right away.

SO the consensus was it was NOT the battery but the starter.

AND it seemed to explain how the battery died in the first place.
It takes a lot of juice to crank that car up.
I was allowing the extended cranking to exist for over 2 weeks.
Over that period of time, the starting of the car was slowly but surely draining the battery to the point where it could no longer generate enough power to make the starter work any longer.
When I got the battery jumped and charged, the car started right up, but that was because there was maximum battery power - enough to overcome the "weak starter".
And once the battery was back to "normal levels" thee was not enough excess power to over come the weak starter, so thats why it exhibited an extended crank AGAIN yesterday after letting it run for an hour.

So we concluded the starter needs to be replaced and leave the battery in at the moment.

Quote for the starter change is $780.

QUESTIONS
1- Do you agree with the analysis and solution?
2- Is $780 about right for changing out the starter?
3- If I do change out the starter, is there anything else I should get done while they are at it?

Thanks!

pawraw

Does the starter sound like it is cranking the engine at normal speed ? Unless the starter is turning the engine over slowly I think you have some other problem. You need to read the engine codes to find out if a sensor or computer is at fault. I got a Mercedes specific reader on ebay for a reasonable price and it has been invaluable to the repairs I have made. I got a iCarsoft MBII i980 for 150.00 and it works great. I don't think the starter is at fault if it is cranking engine at normal speed.

pawraw

I checked starter prices on line. $100 - 150 price range $780.00 seems very high - not that hard to replace.

PaystarCEO

The tech guy said the actual price was not high but that the computer was providing a 3.5 hour estimate to replace.
Still, that works out to be a pretty hight labor rate.

One option that is NOT available is me actually doing any repair.
Its not due to laziness or not wanting to get my hands dirty - I am simply all thumbs for some reason when it comes to repairing cars ... or even washing a car. I am confounded at how I cannot wash a car without making it look like crap.
A man's got to know his strengths and weaknesses and thank god I am good at repairing and growing companies. I'll stick to that and truly admire those who can fix their cars.

PaystarCEO

UPDATE!!
To help eliminate any ambiguity on the sounds of my ignition, I've made a short video of starting my 2005 CL65 AMG.

In the video, I start the car 2 times.
First time - I put the key in, turn it and immediately let go and let the cranking begin. As you will hopefully hear, it takes a couple seconds before the engine catches. You'l have to turn the volume up to hear what it sounds like.
Second time - I put the key in, turn it, BUT KEEP IT TURNED for an extra second, and THEN let go of the key. When I start the car THAT way, the engine catches right away. And when I replicate that process, it starts right away every time.

So does that rule out the starter???
There are 2 links below - if one doesn't work the other should.
Mercedes Benz Ignition
https://www.christophercoutinhophotography.com/Mercedes-Benz-Ignition/

PaystarCEO

MarcusDubya77

You need to find out what the amp draw is on the various components of the car. It sounds like something is continuing to stay on when the car is turned off. Someone needs to test the various grounding points in the car with a multimeter. That might help. Is the stereo aftermarket, or are there any aftermarket components in the car?

PaystarCEO

BlownV8

Does your alarm work? In my SL, it was the alarm causing the car to drain the battery. It's mounted behind the front tire in an area that can get moisture so the insides corrode and short over time.

slonar21

yes, the nav disk in console can do that, just remove disk from nav

RaceHorse

If you really like this car and truly miss driving it why haven't you dropped it off at an independant Mercedes shop to be properly diagnosed and fixed? If you want to try to figure it out on your own, I would start throwing money at it, and change parts. Thats how things get fixed sometimes, its not going to fix itself. Despite what you have been told about the battery, just replace it. Then atleast you'll have a new battery good for 8-10 years. There are so many things that rely on the battery, don't use interior lights as an indicator of battery charge. Check the voltage through your steering wheel controls. If its not holding close to high 11's in voltage, its probably not doing so great. You can't blame the car and ignore it. Good luck.

PaystarCEO

Love your passion my man, and rest assured, I gave up using the "blaming and ignoring my car" solution 30 years ago with my first vette.
This has been a great forum and this post has provided valuable insight to getting the car repaired.
I'm fairly certain your question on why I haven't dropped the car off yet, is a rhetorical one - but if you'd really like to know, the answer is, while I am really missing driving my car, due to my family time, the company I run, and the various personal ski trips I had booked in several months ago, its just taken a lot longer to get repaired than I anticipated, and I am quite fine with me figuring it out this way. I am learning a lot about the car which I enjoy.

I will provide another update once I remove the disc from the nav (just got back from a 3 week business trip other wise I would have done it by now).

Thanks again to you and everyone for the help!

ctravis595

If the battery is draining I doubt the starter is the issue

PaystarCEO

Had the coils and spark plugs replaced, and the extended crank was still there.
They think it might be a fuel filter issue, since it cranks right up if I crank it once for about 2 seconds, turn the key off, then re-crank it immediately again - it starts up right away the second time. So they are changing the fuel filter out

Here is their feedback:

Good afternoon, the detail is all done and ready to go! I did go out to move it and it looks like the misfire codes are gone with the tune up but the slight extended crank is still there. Thinking it may need a fuel filter that has a built-in check valve so that the fuel does not drain back into the tank after the engine is shut off. Have you ever had the fuel filter changed? Thank you
Text STOP to opt-out.
--Colton Lancaster Mercedes-Benz of Northlake

Correct, there is a check valve inside of the fuel filter that that stops gas from flowing back into the gas tank causing the engine to lose fuel pressure. If it sits for a period of time it takes longer to crank, if you shut it off and start it back up, the fuel pressure is still there and has not bled off so it starts right back up. It is intermittent because the check valve is not always sticking open.
Text STOP to opt-out.
--Colton Lancaster Mercedes-Benz of Northlake

ctravis595

I think they are incorrect. The check valve is inside of the fuel pump, or at least was the case on mine. The fuel filter on these cars has a built in regulator system, which I think is why they assumed it’s a fuel filter issue.

I solved this similar issue with my car by buying a nice Oem grade fuel pump, the cheap fuel pump replacement did not help

my car would usually start on the first crank but it would take the entirety of the start cycle for the engine to finally fire, every once in a while I would have to try starting the car twice

this eventually led to my starter dying from all the unnecessary work helping the fuel system get primed

furthermore, I tried rectifying this issue first by replacing the fuel filter as well. But be prepared to also need a fuel pump