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CLK convertible top problem.
Hi, My 1999 CLK 230K convertible has a wee challenge.
The top opens perfectly with all functions completed successfully, When I close the hood, though, all systems work until the rear window is supposed to lift up so that the metal case cover can fold back into place. At this point, the operation stops completely. The rest of the operation can be done manually by releasing the pressure on the pump, liifing the rear window, replacing the metal case cover, then putting the bow window down. The rear window is then locked into place by raising and lowering the rear head restraints. Both the complete hydralic pump AND the control unit have been replaced. Neither of which makes any difference. Any thoughts and ideas would be very gratefully received. David |
David.......from what you have described, it appears that your problem is likely being caused by a malfunctioning input/output to the soft top controller and replacing the hydraulic pump and controller was an unnecessary and expensive repair.
As shown below, the fault occurs at stage 6, while closing the roof, which is prohibiting stage 7 to function properly. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...6a2c131c36.jpg The next document shows the necessary actualization's, at each stage, that are required for the power roof operation to proceed. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...b538961b39.jpg Further analysis of this information will greatly assist in diagnosing/troubleshooting/repairing the power roof. Typically, the repair will be a malfunctioning position/limit switch or hydraulic cylinder, which then can be DIY or shop corrected at low cost. |
Hi Serndipity,
Thank you so much for helping a lost soul out. It is very much appreciated. Using your wonderful diagrams it seems like either the soft top open limit switch (S84/13s2) or the Soft top closed limit switch (S84/13s1) may be to blame. The wonderful Klaus from TopHydraulics has suggested this is on the right hand side by the main ram. Is it just a matter of removing the rear seats to be able to get this sensor out? Thanks again, David Of course, you are right about the expensive pump and control unit but, for me, that's part of the journey of my first "project car". |
Originally Posted by Mercnotworking
(Post 7624262)
Hi Serndipity, Thank you so much for helping a lost soul out. It is very much appreciated. Using your wonderful diagrams it seems like either the soft top open limit switch (S84/13s2) or the Soft top closed limit switch (S84/13s1) may be to blame. Actually, I've found them more valuable than having the MB STAR diagnostic trouble codes, which tells you that a position/limit is implausible or a cylinder has taken to long to actuate, because of the added information necessary for the follow on troubleshooting process. You're correct in your initial diagnosis, noticing that for stage 6 operation, not only that S84/13s1 must be actuated, but S84/13s2 actuation should be released from being actuated, as well. The following document will provide additional information related to the purpose and function of soft top cover locking. Note: Which is also known as the A25/13s1/13s2. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...dac893088b.jpg The status of every system position/limit switch can be checked by removing the controllers 55 pin harness connector and with a multimeter (set to read ohms, from a specific harness pin to vehicle ground) to see if a switch has actuated or not, at any stage of roof operation. However, since access to the controller is a PITA, there is another way to do this. Access to the A25 switch group is very accessible, by only removing a carpet panel inside the soft top storage compartment, where you'll have direct access to the A25 connector pin out. You'll also be able to use the 10mm wrench to manually lock/unlock A25 to verify that it's internal switches are working properly, as well to see if it's hydraulic cylinder is leaking. Here's the electrical diagram that will identify the connecto's color codes, where pin 1 should be solid brown and the W6 ground point. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...eabe753f68.jpg Should you find everything checks out OK, another suspect would be the rear bow up/down position/limit switch, S84/15, which is attached the left side bow up/down cylinder, described below. The switch has a sliding arm that is clipped onto the end of the cylinder rod, with a clip, that breaks loose. Read this thread for more details https://mbworld.org/forums/clk-class...-not-open.html https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...029196caa3.jpg The wonderful Klaus from TopHydraulics has suggested this is on the right hand side by the main ram. Is it just a matter of removing the rear seats to be able to get this sensor out? Top Hydraulics has been the preferred go to place for reman hydraulic components and if you haven't been web site recently, Klaus has recently produced a fabulous 12 chapter video series, detailing how to easily access and replace everything related to our A208 hydraulics. https://www.tophydraulicsinc.com/en/...benz-a208-info Of course, you are right about the expensive pump and control unit but, for me, that's part of the journey of my first "project car". |
Dear Serndipity,
Thank you so much again for your help. Although, I am not very popular with my wife for spending hours yesterday watching Klaus's wonderful videos. Seriously, this is very, very helpful. Best wishes David |
Hooray! It works!!
Thank you again for your help. I have found and replaced the offending sensor and now the power hood works well.
Here’s what I did. Removed rear seats. Top hydraulics FANTASTIC video shows how: Thank you Klaus!! I found and removed the sensor which is attached to the frame to the left of the left hand Main lift cylinder. See The MB part number is 2088202410. There seems to be 2 versions of this part with slightly different numbers, See attached pics. My sensor was bought through Ebay and cost 20 Euros and 15 euros for postage. It’s pretty easy to unclip the sensor, but it’s taken 18 months to work out what was wrong. Best wishes David https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...57971a96d4.jpg Location of Sensor. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...0f7968bf66.jpg Picture of my sensor https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...4bfab8d67b.jpg Picture of slightly different sensor |
Top not closing
I have a 99 CLK that I just bought and in great shape, and when I open the top it's flawless, but when I try and close it nothing happens. Nada! I've watched all of Klaus's videos and still am stumped. What next?
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...ec2d1677f2.jpg My 99 320CLK, 208. |
Repairing your roof begins with diagnosis and troubleshooting.
Start here https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...a08dc4d266.jpg Then refer the stages of operation in post #2. |
That is so beautiful. Puts my shabby old banger to shame.
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This is an excellent post. Thanks for taking the time to document this. The diagrams, photos and videos are a great set of references.
I have also been struggling with soft top operation on a 2002 CLK430, 208 for a while. After not being able to lower the soft top, I decided to use instructions in this post and other posts from the site to troubleshoot. I am going to share what I have done. Feel free to share any thoughts or comments. Started with the top in the fully closed position. I unlatched the main lever inside, pushed the top up and tried to use the soft top switch (S84) to open the top. The switch blinked at 1 Hz, and I could not hear the pump motor relay. I checked all of the possible causes on the list above, and everything looked OK. Opened the soft top manually to fully opened position. SYMPTOM: With the top in the fully open position, I noticed that the main soft top switch (S84) was staying illuminated (not flashing). Also, the trunk compartment would not open with the key fob or the inside trunk release. I checked the list of possible causes for the lit S84 switch and could not identify the cause. Tried to close the top using the main switch, and nothing would move. At this point, I decided to start checking the system more thoroughly. I took out the cover to the hydraulic system so that I could get to the pump and control unit. Started by checking the pump and relay - checked OK. Using the diagrams above for soft top closing operation, and also found similar for soft top opening operation on another post. Removed the plug from the control module and used a meter to check the switches for open/close per the diagrams. All switches checked OK in the closed position. Opened the top manually, and all switches checked OK. (I think I may have mis-read S84/13s1&s2 in the open position as stated below). I checked the open & closed switch on the soft top compartment lock, soft top compartment cover position, the luggage compartment cover and the bow lock - all OK. I was close to buttoning everything back up, and decided to check the soft top at a few locations when moving from fully open to fully closed. I opened the soft top compartment cover, and decided to see if it would move if I pressed the main switch S84. The soft top fully closed, closed and locked the compartment cover, lowered the bow and all were hydraulically locked. I latched the top and all seemed good. Windows raised using the S84 switch. I decided to lower the soft top to see what happened. All went well until - the compartment cover raised, the soft top lowered into the compartment, and then: SYMPTOM: the compartment cover would not lower. The pump sound changed as though it were trying to pump against a closed valve. I stopped and tried to close the compartment cover by hand, and it was stopped firm as if a valve were closed. I actuated the S84 switch again in the lower top direction, and the pump again whined loudly and then stopped. I was able to get the compartment cover closed and check the pump and relay - were OK (thermal overload or timer shut it down?). I took the soft top through the same sequence as just described, and was able to close it completely. I then tried to open the soft top again, and the sequence stopped again when the compartment cover would not close. I then toggled the main switch S84 to the close direction, and the soft top completely raised, bow raised, compartment closed and latched, bow down latch - complete cycle. Here are the open sequence and limit switch status diagrams. https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...c188d619b9.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...3e0417bbe6.jpg I notice that the compartment cover pivots down during Stage 9 of the open sequence. Looking at the switch status tables, it looks like the Soft top closed limit switch (S84/13s1) may change state to open at this point to open the switch contacts. Not exactly sure since the state of this switch at Stage 8 as the diagram indicates switch status "unclear". Also Soft top open limit switch (S84/13s2) changes state to closed contacts at Stage 8. I can't get check the output from the switches in this Stage (trunk won't open), but it would seem that the logic would require that the soft top switches should confirm that the soft top is "closed" and or "not open" before the compartment cover would pivot down. Will manually open the soft top and recheck the switch status for S84/13s2 & s1 in the open position, but I believe it is not operating properly. I may have missed it on the first check. I hope that replacing the switch S84/13S1/2 will resolve the problem. Will post an update when I confirm. |
Aw, shucks. thank you.
Serndipity's super advice is invaluable and I'm very grateful to him. My roof has been working well ever since - touch wood. Though, before using the roof, I always open the boot and shut the lock with a screwdriver as the boot is a pain to open if the roof mechanism fails. |
Originally Posted by Mercnotworking
(Post 7745883)
Serndipity's super advice is invaluable and I'm very grateful to him.
My roof has been working well ever since - touch wood. Though, before using the roof, I always open the boot and shut the lock with a screwdriver as the boot is a pain to open if the roof mechanism fails. Mercnotworking..........from what you have described in your initial post your problem was likely being caused by a malfunctioning input/output to the soft top controller and replacing the hydraulic pump and controller were unnecessary and expensive repairs. Congratulations on your excellent troubleshooting skills which found the real fault that enabled a easy and inexpensive DIY repair. As followup, I'm somewhat baffled and confused why you open the boot and shut the lock with a screwdriver) ? The pneumatic central locking system used in the W208/A208 can fail for a number of reasons. However, it it should, the mechanical key will open the driver's side door and boot. More on this below. By design, to prevent the boot and soft top compartment cover for colliding with each other: -The power roof will not operate if the controller receives an input via the CANBus. indicating that the boot is open (e.g. unlocked). or conversely -The boot can not be opened if the controller receives an input via the CANBus, indicating that the soft top cover is open (e.g. not closed). Specifically, 208 820 24 10 soft top open/closed position switch you replaced corrected that. This is the correct part number, as indicated by the MB logo and the other number , preceded my the M logo that of the OEM manufacturer. I've enclosed below, additional information pertaining to the function and operation of the S84/13 switch assembly. Should you ever encounter a malfunction with the pneumatic central locking system, MB provided a backup, where the mechanical key will unlatch the boot and/or driver's side front door locks, when used correctly, as described in the owner's manual. Specifically, to unlock the boot: -Insert the key and turn the tumbler 45 degrees, counter clock wise. -Then push the ley and button inward to unlatch the lock. Far to many owners assume that just turning the key will unlatch the lock from the strike and have broken off their key in the lock, spayed with WD40 which leaves behind a residue making matters worst etc. If the latch does not readily release from the strike, the surfaces may be binding. Try unloosing the lock 's or strike plate fasting screws to adjust. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...2dc565bc0e.jpg |
Hi Serndipity,
Thank you for your kind words. It took over 18 months to fix the roof but I got there in the end. Normally, the boot lock works well electrically but there is something wrong with the lock barrel which makes it difficult to open with the little metal key. When you use the powered roof mechanism, the boot automatically locks shut to prevent the boot opening and damaging the paintwork. If the roof fails, then it is a pain to get into the locked boot, so i leave it open with the lock shut. Best Wishes David |
Is S84/13 on a MY2000 W208 CLK430? If it is, where is it? Or is this a variant of the three position long switch that is connected to the left lift cylinder?
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Hi CLKGeek,
If you read the instructions above you should hopefully find out all you need to know about S84/13. Lemme know if you still have any questions after that. Besties David |
Originally Posted by Mercnotworking
(Post 7884637)
If you read the instructions above you should hopefully find out all you need to know about S84/13. Lemme know if you still have any questions after that.
My question is whether this switch is on a MY2000 W208 CLK430. I have completely replaced all my top hydraulic cylinders as well as taken the top frame off of the car to do this work, and I didn't see a switch that looked like the one in the picture above. I do have a switch on the left lift cylinder that looks like the one in my picture attached. Is the switch in the WIS (?) page in a previous post just a newer/different version of the same switch that I have? https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...309380da0.jpeg |
Hi I *think* that's a clip that holds the main lifter in place. It's been nearly a year since I took my hood mec apart.
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Originally Posted by Mercnotworking
(Post 7885019)
Hi I *think* that's a clip that holds the main lifter in place. It's been nearly a year since I took my hood mec apart.
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Hi CLKGeek,
Unfortunately, i don't recognise this part at all. Perhaps, you have the slighter newer CLK with indicators in the wing mirrors and the 5 solenoid hydraulic pump for the roof mechanism? Have tried googling the MB part number? That can generate a description for the part. Best Wishes David |
Roof lock out on opening
Originally Posted by imintenn
(Post 7745516)
This is an excellent post. Thanks for taking the time to document this. The diagrams, photos and videos are a great set of references.
I have also been struggling with soft top operation on a 2002 CLK430, 208 for a while. After not being able to lower the soft top, I decided to use instructions in this post and other posts from the site to troubleshoot. I am going to share what I have done. Feel free to share any thoughts or comments. Started with the top in the fully closed position. I unlatched the main lever inside, pushed the top up and tried to use the soft top switch (S84) to open the top. The switch blinked at 1 Hz, and I could not hear the pump motor relay. I checked all of the possible causes on the list above, and everything looked OK. Opened the soft top manually to fully opened position. SYMPTOM: With the top in the fully open position, I noticed that the main soft top switch (S84) was staying illuminated (not flashing). Also, the trunk compartment would not open with the key fob or the inside trunk release. I checked the list of possible causes for the lit S84 switch and could not identify the cause. Tried to close the top using the main switch, and nothing would move. At this point, I decided to start checking the system more thoroughly. I took out the cover to the hydraulic system so that I could get to the pump and control unit. Started by checking the pump and relay - checked OK. Using the diagrams above for soft top closing operation, and also found similar for soft top opening operation on another post. Removed the plug from the control module and used a meter to check the switches for open/close per the diagrams. All switches checked OK in the closed position. Opened the top manually, and all switches checked OK. (I think I may have mis-read S84/13s1&s2 in the open position as stated below). I checked the open & closed switch on the soft top compartment lock, soft top compartment cover position, the luggage compartment cover and the bow lock - all OK. I was close to buttoning everything back up, and decided to check the soft top at a few locations when moving from fully open to fully closed. I opened the soft top compartment cover, and decided to see if it would move if I pressed the main switch S84. The soft top fully closed, closed and locked the compartment cover, lowered the bow and all were hydraulically locked. I latched the top and all seemed good. Windows raised using the S84 switch. I decided to lower the soft top to see what happened. All went well until - the compartment cover raised, the soft top lowered into the compartment, and then: SYMPTOM: the compartment cover would not lower. The pump sound changed as though it were trying to pump against a closed valve. I stopped and tried to close the compartment cover by hand, and it was stopped firm as if a valve were closed. I actuated the S84 switch again in the lower top direction, and the pump again whined loudly and then stopped. I was able to get the compartment cover closed and check the pump and relay - were OK (thermal overload or timer shut it down?). I took the soft top through the same sequence as just described, and was able to close it completely. I then tried to open the soft top again, and the sequence stopped again when the compartment cover would not close. I then toggled the main switch S84 to the close direction, and the soft top completely raised, bow raised, compartment closed and latched, bow down latch - complete cycle. Here are the open sequence and limit switch status diagrams. https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...c188d619b9.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...3e0417bbe6.jpg I notice that the compartment cover pivots down during Stage 9 of the open sequence. Looking at the switch status tables, it looks like the Soft top closed limit switch (S84/13s1) may change state to open at this point to open the switch contacts. Not exactly sure since the state of this switch at Stage 8 as the diagram indicates switch status "unclear". Also Soft top open limit switch (S84/13s2) changes state to closed contacts at Stage 8. I can't get check the output from the switches in this Stage (trunk won't open), but it would seem that the logic would require that the soft top switches should confirm that the soft top is "closed" and or "not open" before the compartment cover would pivot down. Will manually open the soft top and recheck the switch status for S84/13s2 & s1 in the open position, but I believe it is not operating properly. I may have missed it on the first check. I hope that replacing the switch S84/13S1/2 will resolve the problem. Will post an update when I confirm. |
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