Rudeney

I have quite the opposite opinion of Japanese vs. European cars (at least MBZ cars). Take a 20 year old MBZ and put it against a 20 year old Japanese car. Given equally proper care, I find the MBZ looks more fresh and less worn than the Asian car. The paint is better, interior trim, etc. Not only that, your 20 year old MBZ will all the modern passive safety equipment - air bags, ESP, BAS, HDLA steel construction, etc. The Asian car will have front airbags. Our 2002 C240 was absolutely reliable until it was crashed and totaled. The interior was a bit worn due to having lived through a teenager adn then young-adult drug addict and her friends, but the finish was shiny and it leaked not a drop of oil at nearly 170K miles. Yes, over the years I replaced a few suspension components, idler and tensioner pulleys, and rubber vacuum hoses, maybe a trunk latch and inside door pull. I won't judge the interior trim as it was horribly mistreated. My 2007 CLK interior looked nearly new at 10 years old, except for some chipped chrome trim on the vents and some soft-touch surfaces becoming sticky (note that the soft touch issue won't affect Japanese cars as they just use bare, hard plastic). neither the C240 or CLK had any squeaks or rattles, and the AC never failed (until in the C240 when the kid ran over "something" and destroyed the compressor).

I look at the size and quality of the bolts and fasteners holding an MBZ together vs. other makes, especially Japanese cars. MBZ uses a lot of high quality parts and lots of them to hold even the most simple plastic shroud in place. Some Japanese makes I've worked on had bolts that looked like something you'd find on a $15 Chinese toaster, and were rusted in place, requiring replacement (even though we have no snow/salt here).

Having said that, I think of all the Japanese brands, Honda makes the best. I see more older Hondas on the road than any other Asian make. And they actually build cars that are fun to drive. We had a 1990 Civic sedan and it was a blast - like a big go cart. My oldest daughter had a Honda Accord that she tried desperately to destroy, but it kept going. I think it's still running to this day - she sold to a kid down the street from where she used to live.

aleks001

All true,but there are many factors to this to.
1. People will usually take better care of a $100,000 car than a $20,000 car to begin with.
2. Technology wise it use to be true but it really isn't anymore, in fact these days you get many safety technologies for standard on japanese cars where they have to be optioned on the EUROS.
3. One can only hope if your spending $100,000 that the car has better bolts, etc than a $20,000 so that should ring true and is the reason that over a long periods of time with the EUROS they hold up better but at the same time it costs you a fortune if your not doing the work yourself so it really is a catch 22 situation and how many people really keep cars longer these days than 5 or so years.

I have to say though from the EURO lands MB seems to make the most durable cars.

Fatz

I can't think of comparable cars of different origins where one has a purchase price that is 5 times the other...........

Perhaps the exaggeration was just to make a point......

aleks001

Well it's pretty easy you don't have to compare exact like for like cars as the OP is a perfect example going from a 2 door coupe mercedes to 4 door honda civic.At the end of the day no matter how much you love cars and however you want to look at it, it is just transport to 99% of the population.

C280 Sport

My wife had a 2008 Honda civic with 50,000 miles. Car was worn out and looked like it was ready for the local auction. My 2005 C240 has over 250,000 miles and the interior looks near new. Honda will be cheaper to own. Engine and transmission will run forever but everything else will just not hold up. Buttons and switches are so worn, steering wheel worn and Even the "Leather" in her Honda was nothing compared to base MBText and could never hold a candle to mb leather. We replaced window regulators and suspension components on the Honda but didn't make repairs on the C240 until over 100k miles. It was a good car for her at the time getting over 35mpg but quality wise. You cannot beat the Germans. Great little car the honda and will be reliable no doubt.

Rudeney

I wasn't so much talking about a $100K car. Much of my long-term MBZ experience has been with the C240 and my old ML320, even my old W123. All of those were pretty much MBZ entry-level cars of their day. Howver, i will say that the same bolts holding the $25K C240 together are the same one on my $115K SL550.

You are right about the technology. Of course so much of the tech we find in modern cars was born out of MBZ's cutting-edge innovations. I think we are reaching a point of stagnation. Short of the "self-driving car" there's not much more they can do. Honestly, I don't care for that tech anyhow. ESP is good enough for me. My wife's new car has all the latest nanny-tech (Lane keeping, blind-spot alert, pedestrian braking, etc.), and I find it either too intrusive or useless. LKA is like using the bumpers at a bowling alley. The automatic braking over-reacts in heavy highway traffic where cars cut in close, and blind spot alert sometimes doesn't stop me form merging into a car, but then will prevent me from merging when there's a good three car lengths of gap. About the only thing it has that's of value is the cross-traffic alert when backing, since people seem to think that parking lots have no speed limits.

The few BMWs I've owned have been fun cars to drive, but did not hold up as well as my MBZs. They developed squeaks and rattles and the leather just didn't hold up well over time. The also had the same types of tiny, cheap nuts and bolts found on the typical Toyota.

Fatz

I'm just saying it is a pretty restrictive view when comparing vehicles. There are many (probably a vast majority) people driving BMW 5s, 3s, MB Es,Cs, etc. who are far from being car enthusiasts. And many probably view those cars as "just transportation". There are many factors driving one's choice in a car purchase (new or used) and that is a good thing. The cost of parts/repairs is one.

I thought the inference was that a 20K car from region X was just as good, in general, as a 100K car from region Y. And I thought that to be an unrealistic assertion. I guess how well a particular purchase aligns with a particular persons needs and situation is not an indicator of the relative value of a vehicle, even if it is "just transportation", IMO.

aleks001

Agree 100% with everything you said Currently also have a e90 325i im trying to get the heart to let go and go back to mb, it was my first and last BMW, terrible company honestly, drives great but apart from that jesus don't get me going.

aleks001

Everything you say is true, but no matter how you look at it the Japanese spank the EUROS regardless at what price bracket when it comes to long term ownership costs and problems with the cars. I don't remember any survey (JP or otherwise) showing any EURO brand ever above a LEXUS for example. Sure those survey's aren't fool proof but it still shows, the Japanese are always in the top 5. BMW, MB and AUDI can swing from the top 5 to the bottom 10 from year to year but they are almost never above your power brands, toyota, lexus (I know it's a toyota :P) and Honda and now even Kia and Hyundai.

insame1

My Kia Rio might get 38 mpg, lasted being a rental car till about 40k miles to now having 88k miles with nothing but maintenance, but smiles per gallon there is no comparison.

mis3

Below is my assessment:
German cars: Precision machines
Japanese cars: Fault tolerance

I drove the Civic SI twice, the drive was surprisingly great. My first choice was actually a C Coupe.
Like I said, if I hate it, I would trade it in after 2 years. From what I was told, the resale value of Honda is great.

Rudeney

I am reading a lot of good things about the new Civic Si in the car mags. Let us know how you like it.

mis3

Will do.
By the way, I rented a GLA250 to go to Montreal last weekend (300 miles one way). I was not impressed at all, my 13-years old CLK drives better than that!

sailorben

Yes the whole A class platform, be it an A, CLA, GLA, whatever... all rubbish. Terrible ride and other FWD cars do a far better job. I’d take an Audi A3 or a VW Golf over an A class any day of the year.

insame1

was not impressed with the CLA but the GLA is a whole other ball game.

gaazmon

Agree. I think they should've brought in lower C and GLC models to the US instead (such as BMW did with the 320i) instead of the CLA/GLA varients.

Rudeney

I've never been in a CLA, but a friend has a GLA. It was nice, but for the price, it;s a bit small and lacking in luxury features.

xsever

I don't think we've asked you yet how much the CLK sold for. Can you shed some light on that? Who is the next owner?

mis3

In Canada, to sell a car, we have to get a Used-Car-Information-Package from the DMV. I already got the package and inside the package, it states the prices of my 2004 CLK320:
1. Wholesale: $5,200
2. Retail: $7,800

I am selling it to my good friend for less than the wholesale price.

xsever

Yeah I remember the process along with having it safetied before selling to get a better price rather than leaving the task for the buyer. Glad to know that a good friend will be taking care of her next. So let's assume you could have sold it for $5,200. How much did you pay for it when you got it? I'm interested in studying the depreciation of it.

mis3

Picked up the Civic SI Coupe next Friday and immediately, I was stuck in traffic. The clutch was so light that there was not a problem to navigate the traffic. The clutch is a bit high, hopefully I will get used to it.

I noticed the car got a lot of looks from other people. Maybe because while Civic sedans are common here, Civic coupes are rare. So far the car feels great and it handles superbly. The break-in period is supposedly to be 600 miles and I am pacing myself now. Needless to say, I do notice that the parts and fitments are not as good as our w209.

One thing I notice was the user interface of the computer is a lot better than MB. I rented a GLA last week and I had no clue how to work the computer. Funny that after driving it for 14 hours, I was not able to terminate a destination with its GPS. With the Civic, I could pair the Bluetooth and used the GPS right away. The Civic computer is a touch screen so a lot easier as compared to the turn-and-click of the MB knob.

Rudeney

I have to agree on your assessment of MBZ's infotainment interface. My SL is worse then the CLKs. It's based on the newer style with the click-wheel interface, but there's no click-wheel. Instead, I have to reach over and use the D-pad. It's a lot harder to use that the CLK's with its "soft" buttons. It does have Linguitronic voice control, but that's fairly slow having to go through all the prompts. My wife has a new Cadillac XT5, with "CUE". That system gets the worst ratings of all, but I honestly don't find it bad at all. In fact, I see little difference in it and her previous Jeep's Uconnect, which is rated highest. In fact, with Cue, you can actually speak an entire address and it will recognize it instead of having to g through each component.

MBZ really needs to work on its infotainment systems. Of course this is a company was 10 years behind everyone else with adding cupholders, and in 2004, was still selling cassette tape desk and putting CD changers int he trunk.

mis3

LOL, you are picking on my car! There is a cassette tape desk and CD chargers in my 2004 w209!

I did not push the new Civic SI yet and I am feel its capability even in day-to-day driving. Cannot wait to break it in and see how it performs. I am shipping for winter tires and found something refreshing about Honda dealerships. They price-match Costco!

Rudeney

I've noticed several of our area car dealers claiming they meet or beat tire prices, even from Costco or Tire Rack (plus shipping). It's a good move, but honestly, I've had such good service from Costco, I think unless the dealer was saving me over $100, I'd still go to Costco.

eddieo45

this is such a friendly thread I want to follow.....just curious: can't Aussies and Canadians buy MB Parts from the same low-cost online sources I use in the US?