Is 04 CLK55 faster then M3?
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04 CLK55
Originally posted by Thai
I wonder why Mercedes don't put fatter tires on AMG models...is there an engineering problem that we're overlooking as consumers?? (btw, this is an honest question) I also wonder why AMG models don't have LSDs...this would improve acceleration AND handling/cornering!
I wonder why Mercedes don't put fatter tires on AMG models...is there an engineering problem that we're overlooking as consumers?? (btw, this is an honest question) I also wonder why AMG models don't have LSDs...this would improve acceleration AND handling/cornering!
I suspect AMG would say that the CLK55 is aimed to be a GT rather than a track car. AMGs remit is probably to add performance and improve handling but not at the expense of ride quality.
My M3 was great but I got tired of the harsh ride and was willing to compromise the M3's great handling for a car that rides beautifully, feels quicker once off the line and makes an awesome sound.
Yes I miss the way I could throw the M3 round corners but that's all - IMO the CLK55 wins everything else !!!
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From: Bologna, Italy
BMW Z4 M Roadster
Dear Improviz look this, please:
http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=47209
http://www.f1racing.net/en/raceresul...?racepartID=21
1 M. Schumacher Ferrari 1:28:34.875 10
2 R. Barrichello Ferrari + 1.367 8
3 J. Button BAR + 26.687 6
4 J. Trulli Renault + 32.214 5
5 T. Sato BAR + 52.460 4
6 F. Alonso Renault + 53.156 3
7 R. Schumacher Williams + 58.155 2
8 M. Webber Jaguar + 1 laps 1
9 O. Panis Toyota + 1 laps 0
10 C. Da Matta Toyota + 1 laps 0
11 G. Fisichella Sauber + 1 laps 0
12 F. Massa Sauber + 1 laps 0
13 JP. Montoya Williams + 1 laps 0
14 C. Klien Jaguar + 1 laps 0
15 N. Heidfeld Jordan + 1 laps 0
16 G. Pantano Jordan + 2 laps 0
17 G. Bruni Minardi + 5 laps 0
NOT FINISHED
18 D. Coulthard McLaren + 6 laps 0
19 Z. Baumgartner Minardi + 12 laps 0
20 K. Räikkönen McLaren + 50 laps 0
http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=47209
http://www.f1racing.net/en/raceresul...?racepartID=21
1 M. Schumacher Ferrari 1:28:34.875 10
2 R. Barrichello Ferrari + 1.367 8
3 J. Button BAR + 26.687 6
4 J. Trulli Renault + 32.214 5
5 T. Sato BAR + 52.460 4
6 F. Alonso Renault + 53.156 3
7 R. Schumacher Williams + 58.155 2
8 M. Webber Jaguar + 1 laps 1
9 O. Panis Toyota + 1 laps 0
10 C. Da Matta Toyota + 1 laps 0
11 G. Fisichella Sauber + 1 laps 0
12 F. Massa Sauber + 1 laps 0
13 JP. Montoya Williams + 1 laps 0
14 C. Klien Jaguar + 1 laps 0
15 N. Heidfeld Jordan + 1 laps 0
16 G. Pantano Jordan + 2 laps 0
17 G. Bruni Minardi + 5 laps 0
NOT FINISHED
18 D. Coulthard McLaren + 6 laps 0
19 Z. Baumgartner Minardi + 12 laps 0
20 K. Räikkönen McLaren + 50 laps 0
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CLS55 AMG
Dear Gabri343:
Will you please explain how the reliability of custom-built racing engines relates to that of production cars? As someone else pointed out, the engines to which you refer aren't even *built* by Mercedes! And, as I pointed out and provided a link for, there are cases of racing engines blowing in *both* Mercedes racing cars and BMW racing cars. Which again, proves absolutely nothing with respect to production engines, but you were trying to change the subject, because you know BMW's *production* engines have had issues, now haven't they?
You see, if BMW engines are so much more reliable than MB engines, perhaps you'd be so good as to find me the blown engine page for CLK55's? You can't, because there isn't one...
Honestly, I can't believe what an idiot you are...I mean, here is the M3 blown engine page, with *130* documented blown engines! And you have the gall to come in here trying to argue that MB engines are unreliable? That is beyond ridiculous, and well into pathetic.
The score is: 130 documented blown engines for BMW, 0 for CLK55 AMG. You really are amusing.
What are you, like 16?
And the really sad thing is that this isn't the first time this has happened; the first 540i's to hit the US were *also* plagued by serious engine problems, and then, as now, what was BMW's response? Why, to blame the owners, of course! You'd think after a fiasco like that, BMW would work hard to ensure future motors were bulletproof, but BAM! Then came the E46 M3, lol...
You see, if BMW engines are so much more reliable than MB engines, perhaps you'd be so good as to find me the blown engine page for CLK55's? You can't, because there isn't one...
Honestly, I can't believe what an idiot you are...I mean, here is the M3 blown engine page, with *130* documented blown engines! And you have the gall to come in here trying to argue that MB engines are unreliable? That is beyond ridiculous, and well into pathetic.
The score is: 130 documented blown engines for BMW, 0 for CLK55 AMG. You really are amusing.
What are you, like 16?And the really sad thing is that this isn't the first time this has happened; the first 540i's to hit the US were *also* plagued by serious engine problems, and then, as now, what was BMW's response? Why, to blame the owners, of course! You'd think after a fiasco like that, BMW would work hard to ensure future motors were bulletproof, but BAM! Then came the E46 M3, lol...
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2004 Mercedes G500 Black
Re: Dear Gabri343:
Originally posted by Improviz
And the really sad thing is that this isn't the first time this has happened; the first 540i's to hit the US were *also* plagued by serious engine problems, and then, as now, what was BMW's response? Why, to blame the owners, of course! You'd think after a fiasco like that, BMW would work hard to ensure future motors were bulletproof, but BAM! Then came the E46 M3, lol...
And the really sad thing is that this isn't the first time this has happened; the first 540i's to hit the US were *also* plagued by serious engine problems, and then, as now, what was BMW's response? Why, to blame the owners, of course! You'd think after a fiasco like that, BMW would work hard to ensure future motors were bulletproof, but BAM! Then came the E46 M3, lol...
Unless either one of us owns a Toyota/Lexus or Infiniti, we shouldn't be accusing each other of poor quality!!
In my opinion, BOTH BMW and Mercedes need to learn a lot from Japanese brands about quality and reliability. For example, i am gonna junk my M3 when it's engine warranty runs out (6 years or 100K miles). However, i am planning on keeping my slow 4runner for a long time because i trust it a lot more than my M3 down the road. My 4runner is a picture of perfect quality and reliability...no damn rattles, no electronic failures, no door lock problem, etc..
Improv, since you're like a little kid with ***** envy, PLEASE READ MY COMMENT PREVIOUSLY. My M3 is at 19,500 miles and in desparate need of new rear tires. I am waiting for Discount Tire Co. to order the new Michelin Pilot Sport PS2. WHEN I GET IT, THEN WE CAN RACE. Ok??!! Geez.
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2004 Mercedes G500 Black
BTW, thanks AMG///Merc for at least seeing my ORIGINAL intent in this thread! Tough crowd! Even when complimenting your cars, i still get my *** kicked!
I will definitely stick with my M3forum.com crowd.
Thanks for the welcome.
I will definitely stick with my M3forum.com crowd. Thanks for the welcome.
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2004 Mercedes G500 Black
Originally posted by pnadin
My M3 was great but I got tired of the harsh ride [/B]
My M3 was great but I got tired of the harsh ride [/B]
BTW, my girlfriend "dislikes" the ride too! Oh well...i can always replace one of the two.
Last edited by Thai; Apr 13, 2004 at 12:50 AM.
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CLS55 AMG
Hey, dude...screw you.
If you're going to continue to act like a dick and keep hurling insults in response to opinions, you can SUCK my *****, OK? I try to engage in a conversation and issue a friendly challenge to a race, and you respond by acting like a petty ****ing jerk...I've got better things to do than waste time arguing with an ignorant moron who can't even bluster a decent argument.
Enjoy your M3, and get a ****ing life...dick.
Enjoy your M3, and get a ****ing life...dick.
Originally posted by Thai
Improv, since you're like a little kid with ***** envy, PLEASE READ MY COMMENT PREVIOUSLY. My M3 is at 19,500 miles and in desparate need of new rear tires. I am waiting for Discount Tire Co. to order the new Michelin Pilot Sport PS2. WHEN I GET IT, THEN WE CAN RACE. Ok??!! Geez.
Improv, since you're like a little kid with ***** envy, PLEASE READ MY COMMENT PREVIOUSLY. My M3 is at 19,500 miles and in desparate need of new rear tires. I am waiting for Discount Tire Co. to order the new Michelin Pilot Sport PS2. WHEN I GET IT, THEN WE CAN RACE. Ok??!! Geez.
Last edited by Improviz; Apr 13, 2004 at 01:40 AM.
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2004 Mercedes G500 Black
Re: Hey, dude...screw you.
Originally posted by Improviz
If you're going to continue to act like a dick and keep hurling insults in response to opinions, you can SUCK my *****, OK? I try to engage in a conversation and issue a friendly challenge to a race, and you respond by actking like a petty ****ing jerk...I've got better things to do than waste time arguing with an ignorant moron who can't even bluster a decent argument.
Enjoy your M3, and get a ****ing life...dick.
If you're going to continue to act like a dick and keep hurling insults in response to opinions, you can SUCK my *****, OK? I try to engage in a conversation and issue a friendly challenge to a race, and you respond by actking like a petty ****ing jerk...I've got better things to do than waste time arguing with an ignorant moron who can't even bluster a decent argument.
Enjoy your M3, and get a ****ing life...dick.
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CLS55 AMG
Proving you're a dick? That was easy.
You M3 guys must get a free tank of ego when you buy those things...yeah, that's it...I "envy" a car that cost $20,000 less than mine! Yeah, that's it...I secretly wish that I could afford a less-expensive car than mine! Wow, what insight...truly pathetic.
And of course, that's the only possible explanation for my posts: envy! Not to inform people or discuss ideas on an Internet forum, or to explain concepts like "traction limited" that anyone with an IQ over 100 can grasp (which rules you out), no no...it's envy. Not only do you have the reading comprehension of a second-grader, you also possess the debating skills of a kindergartener. Your M3 must be daddy-bought, because I can't see any profession wherein an idiot like you could earn enough to afford one.
And of course, that's the only possible explanation for my posts: envy! Not to inform people or discuss ideas on an Internet forum, or to explain concepts like "traction limited" that anyone with an IQ over 100 can grasp (which rules you out), no no...it's envy.
Not only do you have the reading comprehension of a second-grader, you also possess the debating skills of a kindergartener. Your M3 must be daddy-bought, because I can't see any profession wherein an idiot like you could earn enough to afford one.
Originally posted by Thai
Yup, thanks for proving it for me.
Yup, thanks for proving it for me.
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CLS55 AMG
Actually, they have...but you're too stupid to read that either.
I think you're smoking too much Thai, dude...but if you're too stupid to comprehend the magazines I cited, I can't expect you to comprehend the owners' remarks either.
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2004 Mercedes G500 Black
Lastly, you should never bring MONEY and JOB/SALARY into a discussion...why?? Well, you don't know what the other guy can afford...you may be eating your words!
Just a suggestion. Good night.
BTW, if you want to insult me some more, then feel free to PM me and take this discussion off this forum.
Just a suggestion. Good night.
BTW, if you want to insult me some more, then feel free to PM me and take this discussion off this forum.
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CLS55 AMG
Well, I'm sure you can't afford a CLK55...
...otherwise, why would you resort to stupid, childish comments instead of intelligent conversation? Oh, wait: the latter requires intelligence. I answered my own question....so who knows? Maybe you're a dealer...in which case it would be to your advantage to keep a lower profile in a less-expensive car!
Insult? Puh-leeze, don't take the high road now, when it was you who ventured into the mud in the first place...if you start acting like an ***, don't cry foul when others return your little topspin lobs. I'm perfectly willing to be civilized, but after several asinine, uncalled-for "***** envy" jabs (you should never bring ***** SIZE into a discussion...why? Well, you don't know what the other guy has under his belt!) and other silly insults, I'd had enough.
I also realized that attempts to discuss things intelligently with you were futile, so I figured I'd let you have a taste of the mud you'd been slinging. So please, spare me the indignation...if you don't like people playing dirty, you might try playing nice to start with.
Good night.
Insult? Puh-leeze, don't take the high road now, when it was you who ventured into the mud in the first place...if you start acting like an ***, don't cry foul when others return your little topspin lobs. I'm perfectly willing to be civilized, but after several asinine, uncalled-for "***** envy" jabs (you should never bring ***** SIZE into a discussion...why? Well, you don't know what the other guy has under his belt!) and other silly insults, I'd had enough.
I also realized that attempts to discuss things intelligently with you were futile, so I figured I'd let you have a taste of the mud you'd been slinging. So please, spare me the indignation...if you don't like people playing dirty, you might try playing nice to start with.
Good night.
Originally posted by Thai
Lastly, you should never bring MONEY and JOB/SALARY into a discussion...why?? Well, you don't know what the other guy can afford...you may be eating your words!
Just a suggestion. Good night.
Lastly, you should never bring MONEY and JOB/SALARY into a discussion...why?? Well, you don't know what the other guy can afford...you may be eating your words!
Just a suggestion. Good night.
Last edited by Improviz; Apr 13, 2004 at 01:39 AM.
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From: LA, California
03 silver C32 AMG
Originally posted by pnadin
Good points - Having just changed, I am wondering about these points too.
I suspect AMG would say that the CLK55 is aimed to be a GT rather than a track car. AMGs remit is probably to add performance and improve handling but not at the expense of ride quality.
My M3 was great but I got tired of the harsh ride and was willing to compromise the M3's great handling for a car that rides beautifully, feels quicker once off the line and makes an awesome sound.
Yes I miss the way I could throw the M3 round corners but that's all - IMO the CLK55 wins everything else !!!
Good points - Having just changed, I am wondering about these points too.
I suspect AMG would say that the CLK55 is aimed to be a GT rather than a track car. AMGs remit is probably to add performance and improve handling but not at the expense of ride quality.
My M3 was great but I got tired of the harsh ride and was willing to compromise the M3's great handling for a car that rides beautifully, feels quicker once off the line and makes an awesome sound.
Yes I miss the way I could throw the M3 round corners but that's all - IMO the CLK55 wins everything else !!!
MB uses the 225/245 setup for ALOT of cars
C32 SLK32 CLK55(w208 and 209)
W209 CLK320 appearance package
W203 sport sedan versions
in the end it all comes down to money
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03 silver C32 AMG
im pretty sure they tested wider tires, but im sure the improvements in tracktimes (if any) didnt justify the increase in spending...
but who cares... if you drive like I do, those tires go out quick and you replace them wit 225/255 on stock rims anyways
but who cares... if you drive like I do, those tires go out quick and you replace them wit 225/255 on stock rims anyways
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You think it's money?? How much more could it be?? Going from 245 rear to 255 rear cannot be that much more expensive. There must be more to it. MB must have heard about the complaints from the W208 crowd when they were designing the W209. In the regular MB cars, the Sport package gets you staggered wheel sizes.
AMG cars should have something special...more so than regular MB sport package cars.
Seriously, if AMG would put bigger tires (if feasible without any possible side effects), more intensive suspension mods, and LSD, then the W209 CLK55 can kick serious butt...not just M3, but cars in higher price range (Porsche). Yeah, i know, price would also go up. If this ever comes true, then I would not mind buying the CLK55 over the E55 even though the E55 has the monster S/C engine. Heck, it will probably be a better car than the next M3/M4. Oh that brings me to the next point...since the next M3/M4 (with V8 motor, about 400 HP) will likely go up in price, then it's a perfect chance for AMG to go up also and build a better car in every aspect.
Just my thought.
AMG cars should have something special...more so than regular MB sport package cars.
Seriously, if AMG would put bigger tires (if feasible without any possible side effects), more intensive suspension mods, and LSD, then the W209 CLK55 can kick serious butt...not just M3, but cars in higher price range (Porsche). Yeah, i know, price would also go up. If this ever comes true, then I would not mind buying the CLK55 over the E55 even though the E55 has the monster S/C engine. Heck, it will probably be a better car than the next M3/M4. Oh that brings me to the next point...since the next M3/M4 (with V8 motor, about 400 HP) will likely go up in price, then it's a perfect chance for AMG to go up also and build a better car in every aspect.
Just my thought.
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CLS55 AMG
To be honest, I'm not sure exactly why the boneheads at MB went with 245 series tires
on a car with 390 ft-lb of torque, *especially* when the heavier W210 E55 had traction problems with 275's!! This, coupled with the lack of a limited-slip diff, even as an *option*, when it's available on $30K TransAms and Mustang GT's, is a great irritant to me.
It pisses me off, because based both upon how I've fared against friends who have plenty of timeslips and my own timed runs/strip experience, this thing is capable of being a very low-13 to high-12 car right out of the box, but it simply lacks the traction to get there. Oh, well...switching to the 265's helps!
It pisses me off, because based both upon how I've fared against friends who have plenty of timeslips and my own timed runs/strip experience, this thing is capable of being a very low-13 to high-12 car right out of the box, but it simply lacks the traction to get there. Oh, well...switching to the 265's helps!
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2004 Mercedes G500 Black
Originally posted by Chappy
Sorry, but my question is slightly
I know the M5 doesn't have a spare tire/wheel. Does the E46 M3?
Sorry, but my question is slightly
I know the M5 doesn't have a spare tire/wheel. Does the E46 M3?
For me, i prefer a spare tire, especially on long trips. I also drive on isolated country roads a lot too. But, oh well, i guess that i will call "roadside assistance" when i get a flat. BTW, on M3, because of lack of spare, roadside assistance is lifetime which is kinda nice.
What does the CLK55 have??
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AMG
Originally posted by Thai
What does the CLK55 have??
What does the CLK55 have??
BTW, all Mercedes (whether a 1886 or a 2005) have roadside assistance for life
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Re: To be honest, I'm not sure exactly why the boneheads at MB went with 245 series tires
Originally posted by Improviz
on a car with 390 ft-lb of torque, *especially* when the heavier W210 E55 had traction problems with 275's!! This, coupled with the lack of a limited-slip diff, even as an *option*, when it's available on $30K TransAms and Mustang GT's, is a great irritant to me.
It pisses me off, because based both upon how I've fared against friends who have plenty of timeslips and my own timed runs/strip experience, this thing is capable of being a very low-13 to high-12 car right out of the box, but it simply lacks the traction to get there. Oh, well...switching to the 265's helps!
on a car with 390 ft-lb of torque, *especially* when the heavier W210 E55 had traction problems with 275's!! This, coupled with the lack of a limited-slip diff, even as an *option*, when it's available on $30K TransAms and Mustang GT's, is a great irritant to me.
It pisses me off, because based both upon how I've fared against friends who have plenty of timeslips and my own timed runs/strip experience, this thing is capable of being a very low-13 to high-12 car right out of the box, but it simply lacks the traction to get there. Oh, well...switching to the 265's helps!
For example, the M3 costs about $15K more than a 330ci. The engine is mass-produced (in small quantity) so it's not too expensive. This allows BMW M-division more $$$$ to spend on other stuff (like ground-up suspension mods, LSD, etc..).
I think that the CLK55 AMG costs about $15K more than a CLK500...this is just from top of my head, so don't quote me on these prices. So, maybe AMG does not have much money left over for other modifications after they handbuilt their engines??!! I know that handbuilt stuff costs a lot of money because time costs money.
Just a thought.
Last edited by Thai; Apr 13, 2004 at 12:37 PM.
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2004 Mercedes G500 Black
Originally posted by Chappy
My 208 has a full-size spare on an AMG wheel. Nice, but gets in the way of the quad exhaust I thought of adding.
BTW, all Mercedes (whether a 1886 or a 2005) have roadside assistance for life
My 208 has a full-size spare on an AMG wheel. Nice, but gets in the way of the quad exhaust I thought of adding.
BTW, all Mercedes (whether a 1886 or a 2005) have roadside assistance for life
BTW, is it true?? MB is going to stop the free maintenance services for 2005?? I am in the process of looking at the G-wagon...this change may speed things up a little bit for me!
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Originally posted by Thai
BTW, is it true?? MB is going to stop the free maintenance services for 2005?? I am in the process of looking at the G-wagon...this change may speed things up a little bit for me!
BTW, is it true?? MB is going to stop the free maintenance services for 2005?? I am in the process of looking at the G-wagon...this change may speed things up a little bit for me!
My advice: Get an '04 if you want the service included, though I have yet to see an 'official' announcement about the matter.
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Oh, what, you're being civil now?
Anyway, I was under the impression the M3 engine was handmade too; are you certain it isn't?
Personally, I think that the CLK55 was/is overpriced compared to the 430/500; its horsepower differential with each was/is only about 70, contrasted with the M3's 110 horsepower differential over the 330Ci, yet the M3 only lists about $10K more than the 330...although, given that the CLK55 came/comes fully decked out and the CLK430/500 didn't/doesn't, the differential isn't as large as it appears when you factor in the options...still, bang for the buck-wise, the M3 is a pretty good deal.
I think that if they'd jumped the 55's up to 400 horsepower (which they could easily do; that would only be 72 hp/L, the same as a Z06, i.e. not exactly stessing it to the max) and possibly made a few slightly more distinctive body mods, the price would have been more justifiable, but the sound and punch of that V8 can definitely have a detrimental effect on my rational side...
Personally, I think that the CLK55 was/is overpriced compared to the 430/500; its horsepower differential with each was/is only about 70, contrasted with the M3's 110 horsepower differential over the 330Ci, yet the M3 only lists about $10K more than the 330...although, given that the CLK55 came/comes fully decked out and the CLK430/500 didn't/doesn't, the differential isn't as large as it appears when you factor in the options...still, bang for the buck-wise, the M3 is a pretty good deal.
I think that if they'd jumped the 55's up to 400 horsepower (which they could easily do; that would only be 72 hp/L, the same as a Z06, i.e. not exactly stessing it to the max) and possibly made a few slightly more distinctive body mods, the price would have been more justifiable, but the sound and punch of that V8 can definitely have a detrimental effect on my rational side...
Originally posted by Thai
Could it be that the HANDMADE AMG engines are costing too much to make?? That is, the cost to handbuilt an AMG engine is taking $$$ away from other mods??
For example, the M3 costs about $15K more than a 330ci. The engine is mass-produced (in small quantity) so it's not too expensive. This allows BMW M-division more $$$$ to spend on other stuff (like ground-up suspension mods, LSD, etc..).
I think that the CLK55 AMG costs about $15K more than a CLK500...this is just from top of my head, so don't quote me on these prices. So, maybe AMG does not have much money left over for other modifications after they handbuilt their engines??!! I know that handbuilt stuff costs a lot of money because time costs money.
Just a thought.
Could it be that the HANDMADE AMG engines are costing too much to make?? That is, the cost to handbuilt an AMG engine is taking $$$ away from other mods??
For example, the M3 costs about $15K more than a 330ci. The engine is mass-produced (in small quantity) so it's not too expensive. This allows BMW M-division more $$$$ to spend on other stuff (like ground-up suspension mods, LSD, etc..).
I think that the CLK55 AMG costs about $15K more than a CLK500...this is just from top of my head, so don't quote me on these prices. So, maybe AMG does not have much money left over for other modifications after they handbuilt their engines??!! I know that handbuilt stuff costs a lot of money because time costs money.
Just a thought.
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I don't think the M3 engine is hand-made. If it is, then that's a lot of engine made by hand!! I have NEVER heard that the M3's engine is handmade...but, i could be wrong. BMW does not advertise it either (if it is handmade, then you would think BMW would make a big deal, as AMG does)...so i doubt it.
