JLee81

First of all, This is NO M3 is better or CLK55 is better thread.

I just had a chance to run with my friend's M3 last night. He has 19 inch AC wheels 245 275 and tubi middle pipe and exhausts system which should give him additional 25hp. The sound from exhaust was awesome and the tq above 3000 rpm was very noticable.

Then I brought out my car and he asked me to do 0-60mph which is the speed band most M3 owners are good at. So I said ok.

We were at the memorial drive and stopped at the light 3 times. And I passed him all 3 times. We did a rolling start at 10mph, and that was the same result. We took it to I-93 and did it again there. and the same result. When I let m3 less than a sec faster. It took me about 3 sec to catch up to him.

I do understand that it's the driver's ability to shift well with a manual gearbox. But this guy really knows how to drive well in his M3 in my opinion. The exhaust from the middle pipe and the exhuast was awesome. No other m3 muffler can match with tubi's complete exhust system. Thick end tips with holes inside are so visible even from behind. The cornering is very stable and it's just a very fun car to drive.

If you see a silver M3 with AC spoilers, wheels, and thick round end pipes in Boston listen to it's sound. U will like it .

JamE55

Awsome run! Now where's the video? :p

Chappy

I call





















lol j/k

hantzis

LOL. Good stuff - I hate it when anger flares from what could have been a friendly demonstration of power on the road - Seems like both of you had a blast!

MiamiAMG

Good run It's always fun to have these "races" in a sporting, friendly manner.

prof.griff

JLee,

Tell your M3 friend I want to race him. I have an exceptionally fast E430 and I would love to know the outcome. Based on the way your race went, I think I can either take him or it will be very close.

AMG///Merc

And the two cars are remarkably similar in performance, with the M3 having a relatively small handling advantage, and the CLK55 a small advantage in acceleration. From a dead stop, I'd have thought that they were dead even, but from a highway speed roll-on, I feel that the 55 has a definte advantage, although not by any large margin. Just for your (And your buddies) info, there's no way the Tubi exhaust adds 25 hp. The factory M3's exhaust is extremely good, and there's little gains to be found by changing the exhaust (And I'm well familiar with Tubi). I had a Racing Dynamics Spa exhaust (X-pipe and muffler), i.e., the real Racing Dynamics, now called RD Sport in the US, and I don't think there was any measureable power gain, although I would have had to have done a before and after dyno session to be sure. Understand that I'm not trying to put anyone or anything down, in so much as I'm just relating my experience. If you really look into any of the E46 M3 forums, you'll hear the same info in regards to exhaust swaps.

Aside from the brief quotes about the differences between the two cars, what it ultimately boils down to is that even though I believe that the M3 would post a slightly faster lap time on the race track, on the street both cars really cannot be used to their full potential safely, at least around where I live. In my opinion, the CLK55 is more than capable enough as a sports car, and in every other regard such as styling, equipment, and the all important "Tail Factor", I like my CLK55 much more...


Best regards,
Matt

JLee81

Hello there.

M3 or any forum does not prove anythihng to me because what is most important is our own experience about tuning. it's not a swap, if you have seen the tubi exhaust. He not only changed the exhaust system but also changed the middle pipe which m3 owners usually don't know about.

The middle pipe has thicker diameter which allowes more free flow. 25bhp increase is from the whole exhaust system is very noticable and I can tell you that I as a rider could even feel additional tq above 3000 rpm to redline. I will gtech the car and will post some hp figures.

JamE55

Just curious what do you have on your E430 mods wise?

Richard Galing

JLee: Nice run with the M3

C,
When you get thru with him, send him our way for some more beating ...you up for it James; so kali represent

AMG///Merc

And I sincerely apologize if I came across as a know-it-all, or if I sounded condenscending. What I was relating was from everything that I had learned about the car, from internet forums to enthusiast magazines to my own experience, albeit with a different brand. Note that I also had the middle pipe replaced, (The "X-pipe" in my post), but I still couldn't detect any noticeable performance improvement. Still, as I mentioned, a only a dyno would tell for sure! It had just seemed that the general opinion out was that there's very little gains to be found unless you replace the cats, and even then they weren't as much as you would hope...

On another subject, what does your friend think of your CLK55? I still go to the M3 boards on occasion, and most people find it utterly impossible that the CLK55 can be compared with the M3. A few will concede that the CLK55 may have a slight advantage in a straight line, but most will say that they're nowhere near comparable in regards to handling and braking. Note that I never said that the CLK55 was a better handling car, or that it even handled as well as the M3, but only that the differences were relative and even that was scoffed at by most...

I stil love the M3and most of my boys from of the other boards, but they sure can be an arrogant bunch!

Best regards,
Matt

JLee81

Well the M3 is a very well made-car. But let me tell you my pure honest opiinion about the straight line acceleration between the two cars.

First of all, I want to say that we should strictly talk about performance aspects of both cars regardless of price, luxury, and comfort, etc.

#1. Off the line: I think M3 can launch better off the line for sure with the aid from LSD. This is what i absolutely agree and therefore, it will do better in 1/4 mile than CLK55 in stock figure. But After a little wheels and sus change with Evo pullies, my car is doing 4.5 in 0-60.

#2: Rolling start: There is no such comparison in rolling start. During a rolling start, CLK55 has a lot more advantage in it's torque and hp because CLK55 delivers power quicker than M3 SMG or 6M transmission. This can be shown in dyno graphs of both cars. Unlike M3, CLK55 is an automatic, so it's less likely to make a mistake. Also CLK55 has 0.05 less drag coefficient than M3.

#3. Weight: M3 owners might say there is weight advantage of M3, which is about 300lbs lighter than CLK55. But guess what. M3 weighs more than that. The weight figure of CLK55 is measured at 3781lbs including a 160lbs driver with 90% of 16 gallon tank, which adds about 100lbs on top with 15lbs of luggage, with the weight from spare tire and tools which is about 50lbs(knowing that m3 doesn't have a spare like us, we need to make it equal). This is how MB states it's curb weight unlike BMW. Then if we do a calcualtion of the weight of the car itself is 3456lbs for CLK55.
M3 weighs about 3415lbs. Now we are talking about 40lbs difference. Not to much right?

#4. Cornering: CLK55 lacks cornering and this can be compensated by putting a new coilover like PSS9. I did and the car now can take up to 1.23G (G-tech Pro RR) with my tires and suspension's original height with 235 265 tires. And Evo pulley gave me a stiffer handling characteristic on my steering wheel. I feel more confident now.

#5. Braking: Brembo plays a big role here. I had a talk with a guy who has SL55, a previous owner of M5. He told me that the braking feels kind of loose in SL but the overall braking distance was a lot shorter in fact. M3's braking feeling is more appearant to the driver than CLK55 but I know my car's ability and it does brake really well with the stock system.

With saying all these things, I would think that CLK55 has a slight performance advantage over M3, but not too much.

My friend told me that my CLK55's acceleration felt like E55 and that it lauched very well. He told me that he didn't want to run against me anymore because he already lost 3 times in a row. We two were honest in our opinions and that's what we needed. More tq in M3 from exhaust and crazy power from CLK55. I think that sums up all.

I think both cars are great performance cars. Yet, I would choose CLK55, not because I have one now nor I can't afford M3, but because I trully believe that it's an all rounded performance vehicle with luxury and comfort.

JamE55

Naw! I'll leave it up to you Rich! Show em what that Black beast is all about! :p

BenzoBoi

WERD

zkagan818

u guys are crazy, you cant compare an m3 to clk 55 performance wise, unless its 2 grandmas drivin. if anyone wants to put their modded 55 against a almost stock(just coilovers n intake) m3 at buttonwillow. let me know. i dont think 55 can keep up, even with a bb kit.

JLee81

the m3 and my car has similar mods. Me? pulley and Headers and downpipe. new wheels and suspension.
m3 has new wheels and intake with tubi middle pipe and exhaust.
If anyone defies this post and live around boston, I can arrange a run with you to prove to you.

mustang

Hey do you guys read newspapers when you race? Coz from what I can tell, all you have to do is keep the gas-pedal planted.. and as long as you can keep the steering wheel straight, the gears change themselves!

JLee81

and what is your point?

M&M

JLee, good run & I have no problem believing that you beat the M3. However, there is no way on god's green earth that an exhaust system adds 25hp on an M3. & this comes from someone that's been driving M3's since 1998.

The E46 M3 has a wide diameter exhaust standard with performance headers standard. On the dyno we are seeing that the best exhaust with no catts makes 6-7hp more than stock but these are race type exhaust that are pretty loud.

But nevertheless well done.

vraa

Haha, that's the best quote ever.

JLee81

It's what the Tubi headquarter quoted my friend before he purchased it. Above 10 whp, the usual driver can feel the increase. I was just assuming that what they say is true. Tubi is a very very well know exhaust system, so I kinda believe their words