Mathi

Hi guys,

I bought myself last month a white CLK 63 black series with 10k miles. The car is nearly new and I love white, it's my dream car for a long time and since prices are crazy here in Europe, it was a better idea to buy in USA.

So that's the short story, car is shipped now so I'm checking forums like this to get more information about CLK black series in general. I rode stories about the camshaft problem and the engine studs. What do you guys recommand if the car is here? To let it check by a Mercedes dealer or just drive it and see what happens?

I was aware about the engine studs problem but the camshaft problem is new to me. I think my car was most of its life in a private collection so I don't know if anything is done to the car regarding the studs or so. I know some have problems but others don't. But I don't want to risk anything.

Thanks for your opinions.

NYC_Z06

Congrats. You're going to enjoy it. Head studs are a crap shoot with catastrophic failure being a pricey event. If you don't maintain an exclusionary warranty that includes their failure, its wise to get it addressed. Not cheap, but neither is an M156 engine replacement. Good luck w/it.

Mathi

Hi,
Thanks for your answer. Well, I already got a CLS 63 (5,5l biturbo) and a C63 (6,2l) so I'm excited to see how different the black series is.
What do you mean with an exclusionary warranty? Can you still ask for warranty on a car that is almost 10 years old?
Regards

NYC_Z06

Exclusionary policy says "we cover everything excluding X, Y, Z..." If the policy doesn't exclude a head bolt repair. Don't know what the limits are w/these 3rd party warranties relative to car age.

borgreko

Congratulations on your Black Series, a lot of this cars suffer from owners that don't quite understand this high performance engines, a lot of cars suffer the most damage in the early stage of their life, when you buy a brand new high performance car there are guidelines to follow during the break-in time then comes the routine practices that you must follow to make sure your engine is properly operated. This cars need to be driven in a regular basis, once that engine comes out of the factory, it starts going thru the age hardening process, since operating temperatures don't quite reach the manufacturing temperatures this is a much longer process on your engine and its crucial on the longevity of the engine, your car has extremely low miles, cars that sit for long loose the protection of the oil coating which by the way its an additive added to the motor oil designed to remain on the surfaces of the engine during inactivity periods.
Your engine must be up to operating temperature before you bring the revolutions up and also before shut down if extreme driving conditions are met, the engine must idle for a few minutes before shut down and yes even on normally aspirated engines.
A lot of times this damages are caused by the owners not following recommendation and also the adding of extra horsepower which is the most common.
Just drive it, what sense its to buy a car so the next owner can enjoy it, my CLK63 B.S. Has 55k miles and its ageing like a good wine.
Have a qualified tech check everything and don't fall into the ticking noises on the top end of the M156 its quite normal as long it doesn't become a hard knocking.

Mathi

Hi sir,
Thanks for your answer. The problem by buying second-hand stuff is that you don't know if previous owners did their job right or wrong. I have a CLS 63 AMG from 2012 and a C63 AMG from 2010. I'm not that guy that is revving with cold engines and stuff, I have respect for my machinery so also the black series will be threated right.
Fact is that the car only did 10k in almost 10 years which is really low. That's a good thing for value but maybe not so good for the engine and other mechanical stuff on the car. I will let it check here with my AMG dealer and go from there what is good and what not. I just hope not to get any additional costs on the car.

borgreko

Just try to built a good relation with an independant repair shop, by this I mean talk to the tech usually a good tech shows pride on the knowledge they got and share it with the owners because they are also a car enthusiast, if without any inpection or diagnostics they start telling you what is wrong with your car, walk away, a lot of times they misdiagnose a problem and becomes very costly for you, this is one of many stories I experience my self, a friend of mine has a 2008 E63 which developed a loud ticking noise on the top end of the engine, he took the car to a few shops including the dealer, the lower quote he got was $6500 without even taking a bolt out he was told he need it new cams, lifters,adjusters etc, he already started giving up on the car, thats when he offer the car to me for dirt cheap, I asked him why so low he explained to me why and I inmediately got interested not on the car but in why this engine was ticking on a 36k mile car, we set up a meeting to check the car, he starts the car and inmediately the noises are present, we let it run till operating temperature is reached, after shut down lets check the oil, first clue no oil on the stick, I asked him when was the last oil change, he said the last owner just changed the oil before the sale, with no further delay we were on the way to buy oil and filter, when the oil was draining I had another clue because it look like crude oil more than 0-40 oil, appeared to me the oil was never changed or replenish on this car, we started the car and no noises, he looked more upset than happy so I asked him you still want to sell? He was upset because he almost got rid of the car for a $100 dollars oil change, now the car has about 86k and no engine issues at all. Another friend had a transmission issue that the dealer quoted him with new transmission fix, which ended up being a worn torque converter $7500 vs $800. I am a licensed aviation maintenance technician and also car mechanic and thru the years just enjoy working on cars boats anything mechanical. Don't worry now on the previous life of the car concentrate on inspecting the car and finding out if it needs anything but with the mileage my suggestion is to just drive it.

Mathi

Well, I think that's the issue, to find a good independent repair shop... Most of the time I just go to a Mercedes Benz dealer because others always talk like they can help you out but most of the time they make things worse. I heard so many (bad) things that I'm not really motivated to not go to a benz dealer.
On the other side, if I go for a service or so, I never see any tech... Further than the reception you mostly don't go here in Europe. Just to drop the keys and pick them up again after service or so. I think most of those tech's think for the wallet of their boss and not the wallet of the customer.
Anyway, I never had any issues with my C63 (even it was a 2009, I never had the head bolt problem and it has now 80k km's so I'm pretty safe I hope) and the CLS 63 (which has the 5,5 Biturbo engine). So I only go for services and that's it.
As it is a premium brand and here in Belgium like Mercedes is a pretty big thing I always was confident that a brand like this has their stuff together. Since I rode a lot of AMG stories, I just want to make sure that everything is alright with the Black Series. As I already mentioned, the car is really low mileage, the previous owner had the car for 6 years so most of its life it was not running at all. The stories of bad camshafts and bad studs making me a little nervous. Now, I will take it to a Mercedes dealer and just ask for a big service check. I think that the best I can do right now, isn't it? Just changing all fluids and check brakes, etc...

Here in Belgium it's really difficult to find the right people for the job. We have a lot of mercedes dealers but they are all from the same big mother company. So If you go in one city to the benz dealer, it's the same dealer two cities further, you know.
Anyway, in the end you will find always good people that want to help you out, I have two Ford Mustang from 1967, one fully restored in GT500 Eleanor movie car recreation and it was a hell of a job to find the right people to work with in my country. I have been through a ****ed up process of two other companies that ripped me off with the restoration. In the end I found the right people but it was not easy at all.

NYC_Z06

This is a realization that most people only come to only through experience. Talent is not fungible. There will be guys/gals at the dealership who know what they're doing, and there will be the half-@ss Bobs, who cant diagnose, recommend needed repairs and in some instances, make things worse. And to add insult to injury, the dealership won't own up to it. This isn't just MB, other German manufactures as well including Porsche. They'll make excuses rather than take corrective action (i.e. fire the person). It's certainly a small population, I'm not saying that most or all don't know WTF they're doing. But if you're the unlucky person to draw that short straw, you get a 100% bad experience. I know some people go the dealership route for documentation purposes and maintaining higher valuations when its time to sell. As with any purchase, the fact that its been "serviced exclusively" is useful to a point. You're still going to do a PPI before buying regardless of who worked on it. With respect to used cars, I'm more comforted by an owner that has had their car serviced regularly by a reputable indy. These tend to be people experienced and skilled enough offer their talents directly to the public and they maintain that client base through trust. Unlike the dealer, the indy has more at stake relative to reputation and knows that unhappy clients can crater his/her business. Dealership has a captive audience in so far as warranty work and well heeled unsophisticated car owners is concerned. If you lived in Dallas, I could introduce you to several.

Doctodd33

Did you buy the car from a dealer in Georgia?

Mathi

No sir, I bought it from a dealer in Miami, FL.

Mathi

Mathi

Mathi

That's my car, previous owner had it for 6 years...

Manuyc

looks good

Mathi

The car came in last week from a trip for a month on the sea.
I drove the car like a few miles to my garage and I was suprised about the agressive throttle respons of the car. I also have a C63 from 2009 with the 6,2 liter and the difference of throttle respons is pretty noticeable

Car looks stunning from the outside and inside... No reports on the dash. I will bring the car next week to the AMG dealership to check the car from top to bottom. Just to make sure. Keep you guys updated!

Regards

Tex5

I confirm throttle respons is more agressive on the CLK BS than in my previous CLK 63 non BS

Mathi

Hi again,
My car survived its first service here in Belgium. I let them change all oil in engine, transmission and rear axle. They checked brakes and some other stuff. Luckily, it was all good.

Now, the only paperwork that I have from the car is the title and the owners manual. So no service book, no certificate of conformity, etc...
The dealership where I bought it, told me they gave me all documents they had. Now, they gave the stuff to my shipping company so I could not check what they gave and what not.

So I only have two documents with the car. Do you guys have certificate of confomity in usa? Normally in Europe you need this... I'm now started with the legalisation of the car to get a license plate, I just hope I have enough with only the title.

Mathi

Hi guys,
I'm reading now for about 2 days about the M156 head bolts issue. On this moment I have three cars in the affected range, only one of the three has the newer head bolts so I'm feeling screwed. I was aware of the problem before I bought the cars but never heard about numbers to fix it. I was always in the assumption that it was an easy and cheap (less than 1k) fix.
So I have my 2009 C63 now for 4 years now, I don't drive it much (like 2k/a year) and never had any issues with the car. It has now 80k km's. I recently bought my clk 63 AMG BS with only 16k km's. That are the two cars with the bad bolts still in.

A few weeks ago I was at my MB dealership and asked them if they give any extended warranty on or my C63 or my clk 63 BS but as they are both older than 7 years, there was no warranty available for both.

What I understand about the bolt issue is that all M156 engines between 2008 and late 2010 are infected with bad head bolts. But not all M156 engines has failures or rust on the inside of the bolt. Imho one of the reason that they could snap is the combination between metal fatigue and rust/corrosion due to warm/cold inside the engine. I'm pretty sure that problems will start on a certain moment when the car (and so the engine) is getting older.

As there is not really a regularity when and how they snap and I have no warranty or whatsoever, I think the best thing I can do, is bite the bullet and let my dealer change the bolts from my cars. We don't have indy shops like you guys have in USA so the Mercedes dealer is the way to go unfortunatly. I really hate to solve problems that comes from another party but it's spending 4k on solving the problem or maybe 42k out of my own pocket for my engine rebuild if the bolts snap.

I just want to spend my time in my amg in a relax mood... No worries about when I will get the problem, maybe it will never come... Maybe it will come the next time I will start it up. I enjoy the 6,2 M156 engine every time I drive it so f*ck this ****, I'm going to try to solve this.

Meanwhile in winter modus:

Doctodd33

the struggle is real....lol....nice stable

Stickstome2

The head bolt issue was done on my car when I bought it . But it seems like the bill was like 1700 . Some people are getting shafted on the amount , but it is just head bolts and people do them all the time on all kinds of cars . So shop it . Has anyone here had any breakage

Mathi

Ok, today I have my quote of my MB dealer in Belgium and I'm shocked, that's the least I can say.
They quoted me 15k € for replacing the head bolts. I'm very disappointed on this moment. They told me this is the quote for the 'worst case scenario'. He told me they need to measure some values and if the values are not okay to AMG terms they need to replace other stuff too. Bullsh** in my honest opinion.
We don't have indy shops like you guys do in USA so I'm feeling very disappointed. It's like laughing in my face.

Anyway, if anyone knows a good adress in Germany or so, let me know... I really like to do this for my own peace of mind.

Tex5

15K€ !!!
It could have been easier to to say they don"t want to do it

NYC_Z06

For all 3, or just 1 car? If its just 1, I think it would be cheaper to have a tech from the states fly in for a working holiday than pay a local. Mine was an engine out repair. Not sure it can be done w/o removing the block and it comes out from the bottom (at least mine did). In thinking about this M156 headbolt matter and MB's seeming indifference, it might be because the incidence of failure is remote (although catastrophic if it occurs). Accordingly, they may take the position that its cheaper to deal w/the the few dissatisfied customers than proactively repairing thousands of automobiles.

Mathi

Hi guys,
Thanks for your answers. This was the price just to do the Black Series.
I'm still mad, sad and dissappointed on the same time. How do a dealership dare to sent a quote like that to a customer, even when they know it's not the customer's faulth but the brand itself. It's ridiculous!

Well, I'm testing the waters now on other ways. I really want to let them replace for my own peace of mind, I'm sure I will enjoy the car more and that's really important for me.

Will be continued...