Krafcik

Hey everyone - I'm looking for my first diesel. I've read negative things about certain years.

Is their a specific year/model that you would push me towards? Away from?

I'm looking to get a 80's/90's diesel - ideally $7500 or less

cheers

TMAllison

$7500 will get you into a W210 from 96-99. 96-97 NA, 98-99 turbo'd and with more airbags, etc.

Goatman

How big do you need the car to be? How much electronics and fancy do-dads (**** that can and will break) can you live with/without?

Krafcik

I would like four door or wagon.

Doesn't need to be fancy - i actually "fancy" the 300d 84/85 style.

TMAllison

If you care about safety go with the W210. Besides better safety engineering than a W123 or W124 all W210's had front and side airbags for the front seats. 98 also got front head bags, 99 got them for the rear too.

I tote a child around so the 99 was an easy choice and I got a turbo too.

You'll spend lots more time chasing vacuum leaks on an old one than you will electrical problems on a newer one.

Krafcik

What are vacuum leaks?

Goatman

If you want the perfect combination of both, you'll get yourself a 86-87 SD or SDL. Straight 6 with plenty of power. Airbags and anti lock brakes. No electronics (MUCH more failure prone than the vacuum systems) and easy to work on.

TMAllison

Prior to the late 90's MB powered many engine and interior convieneince features using a vacuum pump. Twenty/thirty years later, rotten rubber causes leaks/failures in things like AC vent flap controls, trans shifting, door locks, engine shut off, etc., etc, etc.

I"ve owned 2 W123's, a W124 and a W210 diesel. The W210 is hands down the finest of the bunch; there really is no comparission. The W210 is in a different class. It's AC actually works, the seats dpnt get pounded out, its quiet, its powerfull, its tranny is smother/stronger/more reliable, its safer, its mechanically the equal to the 617.952 for durability, and the list goes on and on and on.

The W123 and W124 vs the W210 is like comparing a John Deere tractor to a Caddy.

Test drive a W210 or W211 and you'll understand.

But, there are those who appreciate the W123 era and thats fine. Most who think the W123 is the finest car MB ever made have never driven anything newer......MB did improve and continues to do so every year.

Goatman

My vote is the W126 cars. W123's suck as far as I'm concerned. Unless you can get a brand new MB, that's the way to go.

240D 3.0T

Thats because you think Hyundai makes good cars.

Krafcik

Hyundai are good cars - My wife and I each have one - zero trouble with them.

Of course - my uncle is the CEO.

Green E-300 DT

I have a Hyundia Azera. At least I will until my Lemon-Law case is settled.

Three sets of front shocks and none of the three different part numbers will hold up even for one thousand miles.
Hyundai went cheap with Mando built shocks instead of Bilsteins. Even the new Genesis uses Sachs made shocks and many who own these new Genesis sedans are complaining about the poor ride and handling!
My Azera wallows, porpuses and general speaking is the worst riding car I have owned over the past sixty years.

My front-end guy with forty years experince says he has never seen shocks fail so rapidly.

So don't even mention Hyundai to me!

Goatman

They don't make a good car, they make a GREAT car. #3 behind Toyota and Honda in quality and sales.


The sharp amongst us will notice MB is not on that list.

Krafcik

Every car will have its issues. Look around this board - it's amazing how many new cars are having issues.

One would expect that if they pay 40k+ for a new car it would hold up better then a 20k car - not the case.

Consider the 2004 Sonata - #1 most reliable car.

I don't want to turn this into a flame fest because we are all on the Mercedes forum for a reason.

However, one bad Azera does not make Hyundai a bad company. This is not the same Hyundai that was around in the 80's.

I recall what everyone used to think Lexus when they came out in 1989 . . . my how things have changed.

Some quotes from Wikipedia

"In 2006, J.D. Power and Associates' quality ranking, overall the Hyundai brand ranked 3rd, just behind Porsche and Lexus, and beating long time rival Toyota.[12]The brand overall is ranked much higher than the average industry and resale value continues to improve; a comparable 2003 Hyundai Sonata sedan ranks just $2200 below a similarly equipped Honda Accord, according to Kelley Blue Book Pricing 2006."

"
In 2006, Hyundai was awarded 'Top-rated 2006 Ideal Vehicle' by Autopacific, Marketing research and consultancy firm for the automobile industry.[16]
In 2007 Strategic Vision Total Quality Awards, Hyundai Motors leads the most vehicle segments in Strategic Vision’s Total Quality Index, measuring the ownership experience. They attempt to measure more than just the number of problems per vehicle. Hyundai tops in Strategic Vision Total Quality Awards. For the first time ever, Hyundai has risen to share the position of having the most models leading a segment. three models with the top Total Quality Index (TQI) score in their segments, including the Hyundai Azera, Entourage, Santa Fe.[17][18]"

TMAllison

Talk to me when your Hyundai's are 24 years old with 311k like my 85 and tell me what you think of it then.

Krafcik

Come on man - you are comparing apples and oranges.

First, you are talking about a diesel vs a gasoline
Second, their is a clear distinction between an 85 Benz and a current Benz - I believe 85 was the last year of the over-engineered Benz.

No need to hate Hyundai.

Goatman

Sure thing, just hold your breath till I tell ya...

Goatman

Actually, 1991 was the last year of the far superior W126 cars that were built the way they build Hyundai's... Except with less precision.

TMAllison

Tell that to my 99 w/262K. (FWIW - most folks would claim '95 was the last year engineers rather than accountants were in charge of prod/design)

If you can't handle 300k, call me when your H's hit half that and we'll see if they are holding up better or worse than an MB with double their mileage and twice thier age.

G'Man - 91 SDL's got the 3.5L diesel engine.

Krafcik

Come on man - you are comparing a diesel to a gasoline engine.

My wife's 07 Santa Fe has 44,000 miles and it has not been in the shop once - except for routine maintenance.

My 04 Sonata has over 80,000 miles and it has also not been in the shop other than routine maintenance.

By the way, how much does the Mercedes equal to the Genesis cost? I know for BMW's that's the 5 series. Genesis starts at 32k BMW 5 Series starts at 45k - so the Hyundai get's 13k in free money to make up for the repairs INCASE it is not as reliable . . . even though all data points to Hyundai leading in reliability.

TMAllison

You either didn't read what I wrote or you are not confident enough that it will make 150K, yet want to compare reliability?

Krafcik

I did read that you said or "half that".

Relax man - love your Benz - but don't hate on Hyundai.

240D 3.0T

Just everything made in Korea.

TMAllison

I don't dislike any vehicle. I do like some more than others. I've owned Plymouth (mitsu), Toyota, Chevy, BMW and am now on my 5th MB. The MB E300 is only equaled by the BMW 5 in terms of driveability, fit and finish of the cars I've owned although the Toy Supra was very nice. I shopped Hyundai XG 350(?) a few years ago prior to getting the current 3 years used MB. The H didnt feel safe, felt cheap and drove the same IMO. All cars can make sense to own pending your personnel circumstances. Even G'mans lil Kia econobox which I wouldn't have touched when I was 20y/o and childless. I dislike bad mouthing MB as I do believe they make a long lasting vehicle, gas or diesel, and if well cared for is commonly a vehicle that will outlast most other vehicles of similar cost. MB typically leads the industry in terms of comfort, safety and innovation but does sell at a price point which prevents some from considering them. To suggest they are not reliable is unfair when there are so many expamles around showing the opposite, regardless of them being gas or diesel.

Just because a manufacturer chooses to provide a 100k warranty to make folks feel good about purchasing an unknown product dosn't necessarily mean it will be a long term quality product. Oftentimes its a business necessity. The 100k warranty provides littel comfort as to what will happen the next 100k, or the 100 after that.

Again, talk to me about reliability and safety when your H's and K's are 25 y/o, if they haven't yet been crushed.

Krafcik

Does the fact that they are made in the USA mean anything?