N_Jay

Even during a emergency there is no real "gouging" as the higher price prevents hording of resources by those with less immediate need thereby freeing up resources for those with real needs. (all without the government stepping in and "rationing" witch always causes shortages.)

Dog hauler

I'd still like to hear from all the folks out there who believe in so called price gouging to answer this one. So would you price gouge and sell your stock for a 1000% profit or would you do the kinder, gentler, left-wing thing and sell it for a more conscionable profit? If so, how much?

N_Jay

You are inviting an unarmed man to a battle of the wits.

Carsy

Depends how game you are with the risk of being run out of town or worse.

Free enterprise is one thing , free speech is another. Media outlets have a field day with price gouging.

Price gouging hurts the private consumers , the businesses buying the fuel therefore the economy as a whole.

There has to be balance between free enterprise & Govt. control for the good of the whole country.

We know the amount of control varies with the party in power which is probably a good thing . ie Balance.!

Dog hauler

Again, it's not price gouging. If I have a product and you think I'm charging too much, then don't buy it. Econ 101. I can't "gouge" you if you don't buy my product. That said, you're correct about the bad PR spread by hysterics in the media and gobbled up by so many ninnies in the public. Many businesses I'm sure refrain from increasing the price of a commodity which is in short supply for just that reason.

BTW, if you artificially hold down the monetary cost of a product (e.g. some idiot bureaucrat decides what is a reasonable price and what is not based on how many votes he thinks he'll gain), you just jack up the price in other ways. For example, if the price of gas in a disaster zone rises to market level (price gouging, as you would call it) then those who want it and can afford it drive up and get it. If the price is artificially held down, you get 6 hour lines and no gas when you finally get to the pump. Check out Venezuela, among others, to see how well artificial price controls work.

Sure, free enterprise needs some checks and antitrust laws are generally good when sanely enforced. But I pretty much trust free enterprise to figure out what's good for the whole country. When the economy (free enterprise) is doing well, the entire country is doing well. When you let political hacks "do something that's good for the whole country," you're almost guaranteed to get nothing good for anyone except a select few.

And I'm still waiting to hear about selling your $1000 share of stock for $1.xx. Or is "price gouging" a good thing when you're the gouger and bad only when you're the gougee?

Dog hauler

Yes, I thought of that. But I just couldn't resist.

Carsy

[QUOTE=

And I'm still waiting to hear about selling your $1000 share of stock for $1.xx. Or is "price gouging" a good thing when you're the gouger and bad only when you're the gougee?[/QUOTE]


A very simplistic question which has absolutely no relevance in the discussion to the rights & wrongs of fuel price gouging

Dog hauler

Still no answer, though it's not surprising.

N_Jay

Of course not.


Because if it did your explanation of "Price Gouging" falls apart, and we can't have that.

Carsy

N_Jay

Then feel free and explain away.


(Or admit it is you with the BS!)

Carsy

First lets look at the Wiki Definition of Price Gouging :-

Price gouging

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Price gouging is a pejorative term referring to a situation in which a seller prices goods or commodities at a level much higher than is considered reasonable or fair. This rapid increase in prices occurs after a demand or supply shock: examples include price increases after hurricanes or other natural disasters. In precise, legal usage, it is the name of a crime that applies in some of the United States during civil emergencies. In less precise usage, it can refer either to prices obtained by practices inconsistent with a competitive free market, or to windfall profits. In the Soviet Union, it was simply included under the single definition of speculation.

The term is similar to profiteering but can be distinguished by being short-term and localized, and by a restriction to essentials such as food, clothing, shelter, medicine and equipment needed to preserve life, limb and property. In jurisdictions where there is no such crime, the term may still be used to pressure firms to refrain from such behavior.

The term is not in widespread use in mainstream economic theory, but is sometimes used to refer to practices of a coercive monopoly which raises prices above the market rate that would otherwise prevail in a competitive environment.[1] Alternatively, it may refer to suppliers' benefiting to excess from a short-term change in the demand curve.

As a criminal offense, Florida's law[2] is an example. Price gouging may be charged when a supplier of essential goods or services sharply raises the prices asked in anticipation of or during a civil emergency, or when it cancels or dishonors contracts in order to take advantage of an increase in prices related to such an emergency. The model case is a retailer who increases the price of existing stocks of milk and bread when a hurricane is imminent.

In Florida, it is a defence to show that the price increase mostly reflects increased costs, such as running an emergency generator, or hazard pay for workers, while California places a ten per cent cap on any increases.[3]


So to answer your question .

1.When you bought your one share there was no supply or demand shock as per above.ie Weather catastrophe

2. There is not a more competitive free market than Wall St. to buy or sell your one share compared to price gouging

3. You were not forced to buy your one share but motorists etc. are over a barrel to get to work to feed their families & keep the economy running.

4.It is not essential that your share buyer buy your share for $1000.

5. Personally ,I may not sell the share for $1000. If it had good prospects I would wait for it to gain another $1000!!



So I say again :-A very simplistic question which has absolutely no relevance in the discussion to the rights & wrongs of fuel price gouging .

"Never argue with a dry economic Republican voting rationalist as their ideology never allows common sense to prevail." Joke Joyce !!!

N_Jay

How do you know?


Again, you are making assumption and assertions without support.
Except many go without, especially after price controls cause shortages.


You continue down the same non-answer path.


And gauge even worse?
In the Soviet Union, it was simply included under the single definition of speculation.

OOps!

Carsy

Your inane, lazy & uninformative answers confirm my view......Never argue with a dry economic Republican voting rationalist as their ideology never allows common sense to prevail.!!!

N_Jay

As I thought.


The difference between market pricing and "gouging" is that fact that gouging "Feels" wrong to the person who believes in it due to their lack on economic understanding.

ImInPA

This thread should just end. I have far to many friends in the Oil industry to believe that Price gouging is not occurring in the industry, especially with diesel prices. Believe what you wish, because, if you do not understand the ground-to-tank economics, you will blissfully go through life with the large member f the oil industry inserted firmly into your rear end. Of course, I understand that many may actually enjoy a good rump pumping, but, I for one embrace the reality. To those that think that somehow the Oil market is a "fair" market place, my advice is to bend over (as you already are), grab your ankles, and sing the Star Spangled Banner. The arguments above, once again draw a "false equivalency" between buying investments to buying an inelastic commodity like fuel to keep your vehicle runnin. It just illustrates ignorance. Believe the world is flat if you must, and that oil companies are your friends. It will save you a bunch of time from having to actually think and understand. Peace.

N_Jay

So just how is this huge conspiracy managed?

ImInPA

As I said earlier. There is no conspiracy. Just corporate greed. They have a captured audience. Look believe what you want. The oil companies are your friends. lol

N_Jay

Corporate Greed does not work without a conspiracy (As I pointed out earlier).


So, really, EXACTLY what is it your friends in the oil industry told you that makes you believe what you believe. (Not even sure what to name it)

Dog hauler

Corporate greed? In your mind, does making money = corporate greed?

Corporations exist to make money (okay, non-profits excepted). The more the better. It's the whole point of the exercise. And when corporations do really well, the economy does really well. And do you know what that means? It means that the country as a whole (you, me and almost everyone else) does really well. Some more than others, of course, but a rising economy lifts nearly all boats, as they say. And for the unfortunates who struggle even in a booming economy, there are far more social net resources available to help them. So why is it a bad thing when a corporation successfully makes lots of money?

If you think a society where wealth is "equitably" distributed is paradise, name one that has worked where wealth was actually distributed equally. A fatal problem for socialist societies, let alone communist societies, is that they eventually run out of other people's money to spend.

Just out of curiosity, how much money do you make? Something just north of $46k is the average per capita income in the US. If you make more than that you need to start writing checks to everyone who makes less than that, lest you engage in personal greed.

Also out of curiosity, do you own stock? If so, would you like that company to start giving money back to whoever buys its product rather than, say, pay you a dividend? I mean, you wouldn't want to be part of corporate greed, would you?

BTW, oil companies aren't my friend. They're a business and they're doing what businesses do: they're making as much money as possible. If I think they charge too much, I'll start driving some little econocar that gets 50 mpg. Or I'll ride a bike. Oil companies give us a product we want at a price we're willing to pay. That's not corporate greed. That's capitalism at its best.

Carsy

Why an econocar? My C Class diesel gets 50 mpg on a regular basis.

ImInPA

Ok, you guys are too smart for me. I take back what I said above. Oil companies are my friends. Oil company greed requires a conspiracy (unlike all other greed), Diesel is a special magic elixir that defies all other market forces, and, everyone on the internet is always right....lol

Whew...I thought having half of my brain removed so that I could agree with you would be more painful. Now I am understanding how so many accept this bs. Ignorance truly is bliss. Now, could someone tell me how much more of my brain I will need to have removed to be totally oblivious?

N_Jay

Best non-answer yet.


I know you intended it to be sarcasm, but I am thinking it probably rings true in your world.

Dog hauler

Yes, more non-answers. I expected answers containing no substance and was not disappointed.

N_Jay

People are so poorly educated on economics, that they see "the invisible hand" as some magic force that can be dismissed as easily as dismissing a religion you don't believe in.


It is nothing but the effect of human nature, proven repeatedly to be true, and as sold and stable as almost every other law of nature.

As someone much smarter than I once said. You can ignore the laws of economics just as you may ignore the law of gravity, and usually with the same results.