Carsy

+1 .Sounds to be a sensible, logical & practical suggestion.

Ausmbtech

Considering the engineers who designed the engine state clearly otherwise and have done so from the moment the engine was released and have reiterated it many times since in light of problems that have arisen from not following their recommendation, I think I know who I'd be trusting. They didn't change their recommendation after problems started emerging, it has remained completely unchanged. The only change to any bulletins is that more oils have met their specifications.

Going after MBUSA is going to be difficult. I'd be going after the Dealership and let them chase MBUSA if they want to. If they came back with something like "we didn't realise we were using the wrong oil, we now use the right oil on all Bluetecs" I'd be more sympathetic, with that answer I wouldn't feel bad going after them.

Steveng_2001

As a long time Mercedes-Benz owner (currently own 3) I found this thread to be fascinating. None of it surprises me.

A doctor friend of mine owns a 2013 Mercedes-Benz GL350 BlueTEC 4MATIC which has experienced numerous oil leaks after its warranty expired. Although the car only has 62,000 miles (12K out of warranty) he's dealer acknowledged that these leaks were well documented by owners and MBUSA. That said, they stated that repairs could only be performed solely at his cost. They offered him absolutely no terms or compensation of any type, not even a discount to perform the repairs needed. It was like, oh well you're out of warranty so you're out of luck.

He is a first time MB owner and swears he will never own another one. He also makes it a point to tell everybody he comes in contact with the same.

Pretty unbelievable the MB seemingly doesn't care about its owners and their experiences with them and their vehicles. A handful of bad experiences can affect the perception of hundreds if not thousands of people. Certainly not the brand attribute that I'd want associated with my products or brand.

Curious what your ultimate outcome will be.

Best of luck.

Dog hauler

My motor hasn't blown up (yet), but I'm unfortunately very familiar with MB's awful customer service. I'm certainly done with MB once I sell my GL. I hope the next manufacturer is better but that will be a real crap shoot.

It's like cell phone companies. Over the years, I've tried them all in a largely unsuccessful search for a good one who offers decent cell signal and customer service. On the other hand, I'm now with Verizon and their signal (at least in the places I go) and customer service are better than anything I experienced with with any other company, although that is a very low bar. ATT was probably the worst. What's their advertising tag line...No Bars in More Places? Man, I got really tired of having no service when the person standing next to me is chatting away without issue. That's off the topic a bit, but I guess what I'm getting at is that I hope the next marque will be better than MB.

Mr_MB

Hi there! I'm currently thinking on buying a w204 but still unsure on what engine I should be looking at. I have been driving petrol engines for the past 10 years having around 230 bhp. On the other hand it's my first modern Benz. I'm now ready to experiment and looking for a 2013 or a later but sticking to w204. What can you suggest? I need the car as an alternative transport to my motorbike and don't do track days.
Help much appreciated !

Steveng_2001

I can't speak for the longevity of the 2013 and above Mercedes-Benz C-Class (W204) only that I own a 2013 with the 1.8 gas turbo and I love the car. It's my daily commuter and the thing is very zippy (quick) for a small 4-banger. Everyone who's driven it or ridden in it comments on that. The gas milage is great as well — about 27-28 average. I really don't miss a V6 at all. In fact, for most driving situations, I like it better than my other two (2013 E350 and 2007 CLK350 convertible). I'm just hoping it holds up as well as my past MBs — I got 18 years and 250,000 miles out of my '98 E320.

GLKpaul

Rather than hi-jacking this thread you'd be well advised to withdraw and post your own thread so you can get assistance....

krd2023

Today I'm ending this 6-month old experiment with Mercedes Benz USA. After having been a loyal MB customer for 5 years, I now don't see myself ever owning a Mercedes again. I've given MBUSA every opportunity to accept some accountability and to help make things right. I'll accept the sizable loss on my 2010 ML350 BLUETEC with a seized engine at 82K miles (in April) after routine dealer maintenance and thousands of dollars in repairs already. The first luxury car I purchased new and worked hard to payoff early. A renowned brand and company that let me down. A $55,000 car I purchased new in 2010 with a current trade-in value of $8,000 with a seized engine. I'm ready to hand over the keys and move onward. I'm trading-in my immobilized MB for a new car at a different dealership, and my new car is not a Mercedes Benz.

Dog hauler

So what's the status of the legal action?

coiner

I have had our dealer call me back 5 times to discuss the status of my car and they will not entertain any compromise whatsoever. The car has sat in their lot now for 6 weeks and no headway in negotiating a new trade-in and of course no cash offer as this would be too embarrasing on their part. How can they justify a 25k "remanufactured" engine for a car that is 5 years old and only offer 8k on a trade. They know there is an issue with this engine and oil cooler as well as the oil that was recomended but refuse any accountability which is totally wrong.Even if they would meet somewhere in the middle I would be satisfied as I have really enjoyed this vehicle. They should have known there would be an issue somewhere along the line with these diesel engines because the oil cooler leaks seemed to be a precurser to the ultimate demise of the engine soon after as once the oil cooler leaked and the oil overheated then the warning lights did not function to warn of sludging or engines overheating. this is absolutly a mechanical fault.

Good luck with your new dealer KRD2023

krd2023

Dog hauler, you were right earlier in this thread about the challenges of legal action. Companies like MBUSA have armies of lawyers to fend off disruptors like me. I just couldn't rationalize other legal pursuits or justify legal actions financially. That said, I've had several attorneys point out to me that I have just cause and a strong case individually against MBUSA/ the MBUSA Dealer, along with a likelihood that a class action may materialize from the systemic oil leak issues related to (at least) the OM642 diesel Bluetec engines. At this juncture, it's most sensible for me to lick my wounds, trade in my immobilized MB, and not buy another MB again. I really appreciate all the input in this thread over the last several months. If nothing else, it will help others with similar experiences as mine. It's also good for MBUSA to see what customers / former customers are saying about our service experiences.

Speaking of legal, here's my legal closeout letter drafted today by my attorney with a planned delivery to MBUSA Corporate next week. This will officially closeout my dealings with MBUSA in this lifetime:


“Dear Mr. B (MBUSA’s Counsel):

This letter is a follow up to my October 14, 2015 letter to which no response was received. Mr. D, having heard nothing from nor received any help whatsoever from MB USA, has decided to put this matter behind him and purchase a (different Make auto). I wanted to inform you that this matter is closed and will no longer be pursued. MB USA has lost a very good customer and will likely suffer the loss of additional customers close to Mr. D.

I am personally astonished that MB USA would prefer to create distrust in and destroy what would have been a life-long relationship. As was previously stated, Mr. D is a very well-respected member of the business community here in Montana, as well as the community at large. Mr. D has many connections not only here in Montana, but around the country. Further, Mr. D is an honest individual and MB USA certainly must understand that his integrity requires he inform individuals seeking his advice on whether they should purchase a Mercedes-Benz of his less than satisfactory experience with MB USA and MB USA’s authorized dealer.

This event will no doubt affect the decisions of future MB customers. For example, when asked why Mr. D was switching from Mercedez-Benz to (other Make auto), the owner of the local (______) dealership was absolutely flabbergasted to learn of the treatment Mr. D received from MB USA and the local MB USA authorized dealership. This individual informed Mr. D that on occasion motors fail, but that if the same circumstances presented with a (other Make auto), it would have been taken care of–whether or not the vehicle was within warranty. For a modern motor to fail at 80,000 is simply unacceptable and truly reflects the quality and character of the entire Mercedez-Benz organization. This is especially true when a MB USA authorized dealership uses oil that is not certified by Mercedes-Benz and, additionally, when the motor fails within 10,000 miles of MB USA’s authorized dealership having performed a major (oil seal leak) repair.

Please place this letter in Mr. D’s file so that, in the event a future MB CEO cares to know what issues the brand is facing, he or she can know the clearly unacceptable treatment MB USA bestows upon some of its customers.

Thank you,

(Mr. D’s Attorney) “

Dog hauler

I hope the legal fees didn't add too much insult to injury. This situation reminds me of the scene in the Jim Carey movie Liar Liar where Carey's car gets towed and he has to bend over to retrieve it. If you never saw the movie, you really must. I'm not a Jim Carey rubber face brand of humor fan, but that movie had me rolling on the floor with laughter. And the tow yard scene is one of the best comedy scenes ever. On the other hand, you may not find it so funny after the way MB bent you over.

And I don't see the point to the closing letter you posted. Why on earth tell MB, in effect, "Yes, you win in a complete rout. I'm a powerless peon and you have all the money and lawyers in the world but I'm really pissed and I plan to tell all my friends." To the very small degree they care about this matter, I think that letter added to their satisfaction in steamrolling you, not to mention that it added to your legal bill.

All that said, you could go after the dealer in small claims court. The limit of recovery in small claims may well not cover your entire loss, but even if the limit is as low as $7500 or even $5000 it's probably worth your time. You don't need a lawyer and the rules of evidence don't apply. You pretty much just file the suit with a handwritten complaint, serve the dealer with a summons and two or three court appearances later, you get a decision.

There usually is no discovery in small claims court and hearsay rules don't apply. Based on what I read in this thread, you can present your evidence that the wrong oil was used and you can argue that caused the failure. If you have a mechanic testify for you that's the case, it will help. But, that's not mandatory especially if some of the documents you found on the wrong oil being used also say that can cause engine failure. Essentially you argue that modern engines don't fail at 82k miles for no reason and the only thing unusual here is that the wrong oil was used so it's reasonable to conclude that the incorrect oil caused the failure. You'll also be able to tell the judge how you were poorly treated by MB and the dealer to garner some sympathy. The whole trial will take about an hour because small claims trials get moved along very quickly.

If you win, you'll get a noticeable amount of money out of it. If you lose, it won't have cost you much money or time. And at least you'll have the satisfaction of doing something besides pounding nails in your head.

Carsy

I agree with the above. JC

GLKpaul

Well i can certainly understand your decision, this stuff can eat your life (and wallet) up pretty fast, so whats left to say is "Bonne Chance" my friend (good luck) and PLEASE take a moment to post here a pic of your replacement ride, we all would like to see it and know you are smiling again. Happy

Cheers..

krd2023

Thanks for the above, Dog hauler and GLKpaul. I've put the matter behind me and I won't ever buy another Mercedes. I weighed the pros and cons of pursuing legal action after 6+ months of dealing with the engine failure in my 2010 ML350 Bluetec @ 82K miles. I have too many positive things to focus my energy on (like family, friends, and my business). Given how MBUSA has failed to assist me, and how I've been treated by MBUSA, I now believe this public thread is more beneficial to us all than any legal settlement or court proceedings could be. Good luck to everyone, and hopefully your Mercedes experience is much better than mine was.

Carsy

I have been following your issue with interest & I am disappointed that you did not chase the dealer. You have not explained why you did not use the small claims tribunal ?.

In your lawyer letters to MB you seem more interested in preserving your home town reputation than theirs. Absolutely no offence meant , just my observation.

In my humble opinion, a little more aggression & stick it up them attitude may have won the day. But thankfully we all have different perspectives..

Enjoy you next purchase ,I hope you have long & trouble free motoring. You deserve it.

John.

Dog hauler

I don't think krd owes anyone an explanation as to why he's throwing in the towel, although he gave one: he's tired of it and has better things to do.

Re: more aggression may have changed the outcome: are you kidding? It was obvious from day 1 that MB's position was "FU, a**hole. Just go away and leave us alone because you're not getting anything from us. Not now. Not ever." And it was just as obvious that as time went on, MB did nothing but dig its heels in farther.

That said, I, too, can't figure out why krd was so timid about using the names of the miserable people at MB.

krd2023

Here's something else that's interesting, at least to me, so I thought I'd post it. Not two days after I cut ties with my first and only Mercedes last week, I get the following LinkedIn message from a friend and colleague from whom I haven't heard in about four years. I suppose this is the first of many who may ask me about my Mercedes experience, and I really wish I could say it was much better than it was. But I can't, and I won't (names are again protected in parentheses out of respect for privacy) :

Dear (krd2023), Strangely enough, I was looking at a Mercedes Bluetec diesel at (dealership name) and when I googled the VIN, your name came up. I was like wait a second, that's too weird . . . Anyway, I was wondering if you got rid of it for any particular reason? I've been chasing one of these down intermittently over the last year or so. Hope all is well! Best, (JS)

I'll respond to JS this week.

This has really been my point with MBUSA all along, ever since my ML350's engine failure in April 2015. Treat a customer respectfully, acknowledge mistakes or shortcomings, and make valid attempts at reaching a resolution when there's a product / service issue. When accomplished, you'll keep more lifelong customers who then will encourage others to be your customers.

B Marques

Where is your ML for sale? Do you have link?

coiner

Today, after my car has been sitting in the MB dealer's lot for two months and the staff there giving me the run around regarding a trade-in for my 2011 E350 Bluetec they finally called me back with an offer for my car. It was truely laughable! The car is in beautiful condition except that it has a seized diesel engine that in my opinion and that of a number of others, including automotive professionals is due to a mechanical fault which originates with a leaking oil cooler; a common fault with that particular engine. This fault causes the warning lights to fail due to overheating and therefore no warning that the engine is later under stress due to the oil gumming up causing the engine to seize. Also, there is evidence that Mercedes was using the wrong oil in these engines for some time before announcing a change to the dealerships a year or two ago. Mercedes accepts no accountablity whatsoever with this issue and will not entertain any sort of negotiation with respect to a new or remanufactured engine. They offered me $2500.00 for my car and $3000.00 off another similar model. Great customer loyalty incentive! My fourth Benz and most likely my last. I'm having the car picked up in the morning and I would rather donate it to a high school automotive program than let the dealership have it for $2500.
Like our friend from Montana, just moving on with more important things in life.

B Marques

For that price I'll pick it up and your helping out a fellow forum member!

krd2023

Just to clarify, the non-Mercedes dealership to where I traded in the vehicle is quietly marketing the car while it's in the engine-replacement stage. This dealership has an engine replacement en route, and the dealership owner is a friend of mine. I called him to let him know about our friend's inquiry above to me, and we are on the same page with disclosing to interested parties about the premature engine seizure and current engine replacement project. I don't believe I'll be disclosing more details in this public forum about my Mercedes (VIN, current sales price, dealership location, etc.) for certain privacy reasons.

Dog hauler

Privacy reasons? I'm curious on that one. I can see (maybe) not putting the VIN on the forum, but the vehicle is for sale. Isn't getting the word out about where and how much doing the dealer a favor? Keeping an item that is for sale secret is an odd sales technique.

Carsy

krd2023

Since folks have expressed interest in the oil condition when my engine seized, I’ve attached a photo from yesterday. My non-Mercedes dealer owner friend, who has assumed my "German patient" project, walked me through his shop and we spoke with his head mechanic who’s replacing the engine. The photo shows that the oil completely gelled to the point a screwdriver could be inserted into the sludged oil and stand upright by itself. This is after the drain plug was removed with no oil emptying. The image shows the engine upside down with the oil pan removed. The mechanic stated it resembles oil that was NEVER changed in a vehicle despite my dealer records showing that an oil/filter change service was recorded at almost every 10K-mile recommended interval. We were all scratching our heads over this image and someone else’s grave mistake(s), along with my mistake for counting on my MB dealer to ensure proper servicings as documented were performed.