Which first? Eco tune or new manifold?
03-22-2018, 08:53 PM
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2019 E300 4matic
Which first? Eco tune or new manifold?
I already made plans to have an eco-tune from Green Diesel Engineering done on my 2008 E320 Bluetec. Every now and then the car goes into limp home mode and when it does the code says the swirl motor is in the wrong position or something to that effect. I was told that meant that I needed a new manifold. The swirl motor and the turbo were already replaced and it didn’t do any good. My question is should I do the eco-tune first and hope that takes care of it since it disables the swirl motor or should I go ahead and get the manifold done first?
Last edited by DeutscheBenz726; 03-22-2018 at 08:54 PM. Reason: Misspelling
03-23-2018, 01:27 AM
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1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
Mileage?
I was just taking apart the same engine and at 180k miles swirl flaps had some build up. Not enough to jam them, but have seen pictures from other member having them worse at 120k.
Took me about 1 hr to scrape the build up, so spending money on new manifold sure is dealer's option.
I was just taking apart the same engine and at 180k miles swirl flaps had some build up. Not enough to jam them, but have seen pictures from other member having them worse at 120k.
Took me about 1 hr to scrape the build up, so spending money on new manifold sure is dealer's option.
03-23-2018, 02:45 AM
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2019 E300 4matic
Mileage?
I was just taking apart the same engine and at 180k miles swirl flaps had some build up. Not enough to jam them, but have seen pictures from other member having them worse at 120k.
Took me about 1 hr to scrape the build up, so spending money on new manifold sure is dealer's option.
I was just taking apart the same engine and at 180k miles swirl flaps had some build up. Not enough to jam them, but have seen pictures from other member having them worse at 120k.
Took me about 1 hr to scrape the build up, so spending money on new manifold sure is dealer's option.
03-23-2018, 06:06 AM
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Why turbo was replaced? Those are 1/2 million miles turbos. Too bad you did not have carbon removed at swirl motor replacement. That would be couple of hr extra, but you would not have to start this topic.
I have no idea what ECO tune can do to your engine, but you have partly clogged intake passages. Disabling swirl motor is not going to fix it.
I have no idea what ECO tune can do to your engine, but you have partly clogged intake passages. Disabling swirl motor is not going to fix it.
03-23-2018, 07:19 AM
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unfortunately I trusted the Indy shop that I had used for a few years. Rather than accuse them of any kind of fraud I’m just going on the idea that they really don’t know Bluetecs as well as they think that they do. At any rate it was a waste of a few thousand dollars and I’m back to square one. I guess I’ll just get the manifolds replacements and go from there.
03-23-2018, 12:12 PM
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1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
How much you can get manifold for? I did not see them that cheap, that would justify replacement when you can get it cleaned in 1 hr.
Professional diesel shops might have fluids, or ultrasonic cleaners who would do even better job, than my flat screwdriver.
Here is how my flaps look after 180k. miles.
Last edited by kajtek1; 03-23-2018 at 12:14 PM.
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03-23-2018, 02:13 PM
#8
How much you can get manifold for? I did not see them that cheap, that would justify replacement when you can get it cleaned in 1 hr.
Professional diesel shops might have fluids, or ultrasonic cleaners who would do even better job, than my flat screwdriver.
Here is how my flaps look after 180k. miles.
Professional diesel shops might have fluids, or ultrasonic cleaners who would do even better job, than my flat screwdriver.
Here is how my flaps look after 180k. miles.
03-23-2018, 03:09 PM
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I am one who trust MB engineers and figure out that when team of 30-40 top guys design something - it is for a purpose.
Need to clean the intake every 200k miles, or so is unavoidable anyway, You will delete flaps, the holes will get clog to the degree where engine will starve for air.
It is not just flaps holes BTW. The Y-pipes going where EGR piping connects had lot of build up as well.
So flaps codes IMHO is just warning.
Here is manifold after scarping the S***.
Last edited by kajtek1; 03-23-2018 at 03:14 PM.
03-23-2018, 04:31 PM
#10
I am one who trust MB engineers and figure out that when team of 30-40 top guys design something - it is for a purpose.
Need to clean the intake every 200k miles, or so is unavoidable anyway, You will delete flaps, the holes will get clog to the degree where engine will starve for air.
It is not just flaps holes BTW. The Y-pipes going where EGR piping connects had lot of build up as well.
So flaps codes IMHO is just warning.
Here is manifold after scarping the S***.
Need to clean the intake every 200k miles, or so is unavoidable anyway, You will delete flaps, the holes will get clog to the degree where engine will starve for air.
It is not just flaps holes BTW. The Y-pipes going where EGR piping connects had lot of build up as well.
So flaps codes IMHO is just warning.
Here is manifold after scarping the S***.
03-23-2018, 09:00 PM
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1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
I have to smog my diesels, so deleting EGR is not an option.
You are wrong about designing the seals. It is the material that fails, not the design.
Typical sample how material can change reliability are window regulators in 1980-2000 era.
The plastic sliders installed in 1980's cars come from good supplier, who changed in late 1990's and the slider cracking for no reason become one of main problems on W210, I come to the point that went on junk yard and removed parts from 20-years old cars to install them on newer ones.
My 2008 Bluetec has several hose clips that come from W124 btw. Those made in last decade simply deteriorate, while those 30-years old hold the strength.
EGR imho is smaller item creating sot in the intake.
The crankcase ventilation is main contribution, so unless you let the crankcase to vent outside, you will still have the issue.
Why some owners have the trouble at 120k, while mine at 180k was working just fine is beyond my expertise.
You are wrong about designing the seals. It is the material that fails, not the design.
Typical sample how material can change reliability are window regulators in 1980-2000 era.
The plastic sliders installed in 1980's cars come from good supplier, who changed in late 1990's and the slider cracking for no reason become one of main problems on W210, I come to the point that went on junk yard and removed parts from 20-years old cars to install them on newer ones.
My 2008 Bluetec has several hose clips that come from W124 btw. Those made in last decade simply deteriorate, while those 30-years old hold the strength.
EGR imho is smaller item creating sot in the intake.
The crankcase ventilation is main contribution, so unless you let the crankcase to vent outside, you will still have the issue.
Why some owners have the trouble at 120k, while mine at 180k was working just fine is beyond my expertise.
04-04-2018, 06:13 PM
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I already made plans to have an eco-tune from Green Diesel Engineering done on my 2008 E320 Bluetec. Every now and then the car goes into limp home mode and when it does the code says the swirl motor is in the wrong position or something to that effect. I was told that meant that I needed a new manifold. The swirl motor and the turbo were already replaced and it didn’t do any good. My question is should I do the eco-tune first and hope that takes care of it since it disables the swirl motor or should I go ahead and get the manifold done first?
I see another vendor where on their website they say:
"Off-road only.
EGR should not be deleted without also deleting the DPF.
Remove DPF, Adblue, EGR, and/or Intake Swirl Flap"
Is this one similar to one of those "eco-tune" Green D. E. setups?
05-13-2018, 11:48 AM
#16
I would say eco-tune first. Then any errors that you would have with the DPF, EGR, swirl motors, and a few others would be eliminated. Soon I plan to do my intake when I need to replace my oil cooler and seals. At that point there is a company that will hot tank the intake and port match as well as weld up when you swirl valve. There is also a full EGR delete kit.
05-13-2018, 01:38 PM
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1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
DPF is still new technology and with its baby teeth - the experience with troubleshooting is still low.
I have DPF clogging, but that come after I had MAF and then Ox sensor failure within 200 miles from each other.
So following some knowledge - DPF SHOULD be lifetime item, but bad engine management can contribute to excessive contamination and then standard regeneration will simply not do.
I found local shop, who will clean DPF for me for about $500. They use ultrasounds for it.
Coming back to ECO tune. In this case ECO = polluting us with particles costing cancer. Be your own judge.
05-13-2018, 03:02 PM
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1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
They are different smogs in different states.
In California diesel smog was "visual". They plug OBD to check for codes, more educated technician will look for EGR and never put a probe in tail pipe.
Now in Nevada, I took my 2014 Bluetec for smog, when OBD would show it not ready due to recent sensor failures and replacement.
To my surprise, NV technician never plug OBD, but stick probe in tailpipe. The car pass with 3% off allowable emmision.
In California diesel smog was "visual". They plug OBD to check for codes, more educated technician will look for EGR and never put a probe in tail pipe.
Now in Nevada, I took my 2014 Bluetec for smog, when OBD would show it not ready due to recent sensor failures and replacement.
To my surprise, NV technician never plug OBD, but stick probe in tailpipe. The car pass with 3% off allowable emmision.
05-13-2018, 05:46 PM
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2019 E300 4matic
Smiledr-
It is a Bluetec but it isn’t. Half of the people you talk to say it is but the other half say it isn’t. The group that says it isn’t say that all bluetec engines have to have a DEF and adblue. That’s their qualification. I talked to the guys at GDE and they said that if it’s a 2008 V6 and it doesn’t have DEF then their eco-tune will work with it. Again it says bluetec on the back of the car and people on here will say it’s a bluetec but others say if it doesn’t have adblue it’s not and the registration and title from the state of Kentucky, which they base off of the Vin number says E320 CDI so who really knows?
It is a Bluetec but it isn’t. Half of the people you talk to say it is but the other half say it isn’t. The group that says it isn’t say that all bluetec engines have to have a DEF and adblue. That’s their qualification. I talked to the guys at GDE and they said that if it’s a 2008 V6 and it doesn’t have DEF then their eco-tune will work with it. Again it says bluetec on the back of the car and people on here will say it’s a bluetec but others say if it doesn’t have adblue it’s not and the registration and title from the state of Kentucky, which they base off of the Vin number says E320 CDI so who really knows?
05-13-2018, 05:48 PM
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They are different smogs in different states.
In California diesel smog was "visual". They plug OBD to check for codes, more educated technician will look for EGR and never put a probe in tail pipe.
Now in Nevada, I took my 2014 Bluetec for smog, when OBD would show it not ready due to recent sensor failures and replacement.
To my surprise, NV technician never plug OBD, but stick probe in tailpipe. The car pass with 3% off allowable emmision.
In California diesel smog was "visual". They plug OBD to check for codes, more educated technician will look for EGR and never put a probe in tail pipe.
Now in Nevada, I took my 2014 Bluetec for smog, when OBD would show it not ready due to recent sensor failures and replacement.
To my surprise, NV technician never plug OBD, but stick probe in tailpipe. The car pass with 3% off allowable emmision.
05-13-2018, 09:17 PM
#23
I really enjoy my 08 320 cdi. Best thing about the tune was removing the dpf which really helped drivability and allowed me use a better protecting oil. My oil analysis showed much less engine wear. Other plus is with the egr shut down there is no soot pushed back in. This is why the intake fails in first place. The soot from the egr mixes with the oil vapors from the ccv and forms a tar.
Eventually when I plan to change the oil cooler I plan to use intake manifolds from cb engineering that weld up hot tank and remove carbon , port match and weld up swirl valves. Plus they have a full egr delete kit. At least the oil cooler seal repair will have a silver lining. 😀
05-16-2018, 02:18 PM
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I really enjoy my 08 320 cdi. Best thing about the tune was removing the dpf which really helped drivability and allowed me use a better protecting oil. My oil analysis showed much less engine wear. Other plus is with the egr shut down there is no soot pushed back in. This is why the intake fails in first place. The soot from the egr mixes with the oil vapors from the ccv and forms a tar.
Eventually when I plan to change the oil cooler I plan to use intake manifolds from cb engineering that weld up hot tank and remove carbon , port match and weld up swirl valves. Plus they have a full egr delete kit. At least the oil cooler seal repair will have a silver lining. 😀
