Babukb2

hi everyone,

Looking for some recommendations from fellow Ontario or Quebec ML owners. Currently I have a 2014 ML350 that still has 1 year left on the CPO warranty. Already I have paid out of pocket to replace Nox sensors since that wasn't covered, and right now I have a CEL 20BE1B output for heating element of adblue registered tank has a malfunction, which also is not covered by the CPO warranty. The Nox sensors were costly to replace and it looks like the adblue heater unit is also. I should've listened to a friend and ripped out the dpf/egr right when I got the car. Now instead of fixing the adblue tank heater (seems to be driving fine so far, but colder days are coming and im getting worried it will go into limp mode if the DEF stops flowing) i'd like to get the dpf and egr removed/bypassed and the car tuned. Preferably in a way that is reversible for when i sell the car. I've found a couple of places in southwest Ontario that do tuning, but nothing regarding the dpf or egr. I know this isn't allowed for street use and that may be why no place is advertising it, I'm not too worried since this isn't my daily driver. If necessary I would be willing to drive the car to Quebec to get this done as I think there are more options there, but in southwestern Ontario would be better and I'm sure there are plenty of places around.

Also, does anything that allows changing the type of tune on the fly (economy vs power) exist for the ML? while researching i saw a lot like that for pick up trucks. it would come with a little gps like display that would allow you to change the ecu tune for power or economy driving.

for tuning here are some places i found but haven't been able to get a hold of on the phone yet to discuss whether they would do the dpf/egr along with the tune...
Pfaff tuning does Renntech
JR Auto Tuning does Mega Speed
Eurocharged

any feedback/recommendations would be really appreciated. feel free to PM me if you're not comfortable posting a recommended shop/mechanic.

Going to also repost this in a few other sub-forums on MBWorld for hopefully more visibility.

thanks in advance

kajtek1

First check if ScanGauge would have Xgauge for your DPF regeneration status and also soot %.
I have it on my cars and it helps A LOT in keeping DPF healthy
Than top off your DEF tank and see if that will clear the code. You might get lucky.
If you want to go delete route - DPF delete and DEF delete are 2 separate things.
I used UK shop for DPF delete when MB USA failed to supply replacement DPF for my car.
They had " mail special" for 300 British and took additional 100 for DEF delete.
Got it done a month ago and when DPF delete seem to work, the DEF delete does not.
The shop has very lousy communications and after they hold my ECU for a month first time, they want it back to correct what they butchered.
I decided not to take my chances and am getting the DEF charge refunded.
Would I do it again ? With MB USA failing in parts supply, I don't have much choice, but finding reliable shop is very tricky.
I spoke with guy in Canada who does DPF delete for $700 and he could not give me much specifics. He spoke with Arabic accent.
So if your DPF still works, get a gauge and deal with it.

Babukb2

You're absolutely right, I was under impression that dpf delete also included the def delete, if it doesn't then technically I'm looking to do a dpf/def/egr delete and also a bypass for the exhaust instead of drilling through or throwing out the dpf.

I guess the gauge and better monitoring is something to consider.

Thanks for your input.

kajtek1

You don't have space for DPF bypass on those cars.
It took me about 1 hr to chisel the ceramics inside DPF with big screwdriver and not having strong bench- I was doing that on the edge of garbage can.
Unless you can find a shop that will replace DPF with straight pipe - you can try to resell your DPF after sending it to local regeneration shop.
They do cost pretty money.

Babukb2

sounds like quite the manual job you did.
straight pipe/aftermarket exhaust and keep the dpf around in my garage/basement is probably the route i would be looking to go. if ever needing to sell the car then i can have the dpf put back on.
or like you mention maybe sell it to recoup some of the costs, and i ever selling in the future then i would have to look at repurchasing a dpf or selling to someone who is aware of the work/tune done on it and wants it that way

kajtek1

If you spend $700 on reprogramming ECU to delete DPF and want to convert it back, the shop will want another $700 for tuning it back. Maybe they will give you a discount, maybe not.
But that's pretty expensive play you are thinking about.
Is your province having smog test? If not, than I don't think buyer will mind much, but selling diesels in America is not easy as education about them is very low.
Then diesel MB is as exotic as Lamborghini, while is not having the prestige to keep the value.
I plan to keep the E250 with DPF delete till one of those will happen:
- I die
- electric cars will sell for less than $20k
- somebody will develop flying car that I can afford.
-very questionable that with our low miles driven we can wear the car in next 40 years, but that is possible.

peter2772000

I believe that Ontario just scrapped their smog checks late 2018. Quebec never had it to begin with.

In 2005, I'd just finished swapping a $13k crate big block (ramjet 502/502) into my GMC safari when they started talking about making emissions testing mandatory. I just about died....

kajtek1

Chances are that sooner or later they might bring smog tests.
Washington state did not have smogs a decade ago and few years back, with snap of fingers they adopted California requirements, allowing for only small transition for older cars.
I do have smog in Nevada, but this is sniff only, when they don't plug OBD at all. Per my research DPF delete still should pass sniff test and I have 10 months to figure it out.
Might go to station for personal test just to make sure.
Smog scanner shows all items pass with exhaust line as "not applicable", so chances are that with lot of diesel inspections mostly visual, that would pass in some states too.
In California I had diesel smog inspection when young technician open the hood and tried to look smart, when I could tell he has no idea what he is looking at. CA for a change plug OBD, but did not do sniff test.
The most upsetting for me is Mercedes who is ignoring parts supply.

peter2772000

I agree that anything is possible in regards to bringing back testing, but the present mood seems to indicate that it's a waste a time. For liberal provinces such as Ontario & BC to abolish testing is shocking.

Insofar as MB's lack of inventory of parts, completely unacceptable. MB seems to lack any sense of responsibility towards their clients. As I mentioned before, this is the level of service expected by a Hyundai or Kia........30 years ago.

Babukb2

Peter you are correct. Ontario just announced they are getting rid of emissions testing due to the fact that it is not feasible or really doing that much to improve pollution due to the way cars are manufactured nowadays anyways. Emissions testing will still be a thing for commercial vehicles though, so the truck drivers aren't off the hook and I believe commercial is the one causing the bigger impact as well from what I read in the article. I think testing in Ontario is stopping as of April 2019. Even if testing was around you can almost always find a way around the test or find a mechanic willing to give you a pass anyway.

kajtek even considering paying the same price twice to tune and untune, let's round up and say $1000 a tune so $2000 total to tune and untune. With the tunes done there is peace of mind for all the emissions related components AND also fuel efficiency gain that will save money. Currently, I have already shelled out $2000 for 2 Nox sensors, and the CEL currently looks to be a $800-$1000 part plus the labour to complete the job, let's say $1000. Had I done the modifications and tune from the get-go I would definitely be saving money by now, let's not even consider possible future repairs and issues that could come up.

I'm in the process of calling around and seeing who can do what in terms of the dpf/def/egr delete and a straight pipe, but if I can't find anything good in Ontario, I hear Peter had a great experience somewhere in Montreal and maybe he would be willing to share the contact

I'd be willing to drive out to Montreal, it's actually where I got my ML350 from.

peter2772000

How far out are you? Of course I'll share the info with you, no problem there.

kajtek1

1 more option for potential untuning is getting another ECU and program it to your car. I happen to know a guy who could do it for me and he lives only 25o miles away. Than before sending my ECU oversees, I located used ECU on ebay for $460.
I still don't know if you could have 2 ECUs programmed to your car and swap them at will, but it is backup plan.
I become expert on DPF removal from OM651 engine and can do it in 20 minutes.
Reinstallation takes a bit longer as hooking up top bracket is tricky.

Babukb2

I'm west of Toronto, it's not a short drive by any means, but I usually head out your way once in winter to go to Mt Tremblant for a few days.

Good news though I found a fairly local place and got the ball rolling already.

Will be getting EGR/DPF/DEF delete, BuzzKen pipe, and also ecu tune. I think the guy said he uses Malone tuning.

Will cost me about the same as the Nox sensors I replaced, should've done this back in the summer when the Nox sensors died :/

He said he will give me back all the parts so I can keep everything and have it all reversed in the future if needed.

Just waiting on him to get the Buzzken pipe now.

Talked to him a bit about the process and he mentioned EGR stays behind they just block it off, the DPF will get removed so it doesn't plug up, and im assuming the DEF is just a ecu tune software delete so it no longer sprays, he also mentioned they use a DOC CAT to prevent stink, unless I misunderstood and the car already has that, or is the DPF the only filtration?

kajtek - that also sounds like a good option if the ecu swap would work and be the only thing needed to revert to stock, but it wouldn't be as simple as just untuning in my case, would also have to reverse the dpf and egr, and I don't think I'm up to that big of a job like you are.

Once this is done, since the DEF just sits there in the tank, won't it freeze/crystalize over time? I didn't ask him but I'm assuming they don't clean/take out the DEF tank.

Wondering what else I need to consider and think of to help this car live as long as possible.

peter2772000

Glad you found a shop to do the work. As far as the smell goes, that's supposedly only a possibility when you remove your cats, which I didn't do.
The EGR valves are still on my engine, they were simply programmed to stay closed. I don't think the shop even lifted my hood, or they would've surely commented on the oil filter swap.
The DEF was also simply programmed to stay off, obviously with the necessary programming changes to keep the ECU blissfully ignorant of this mod. I too wondered if I should try to empty the DEF tank, and may do so.

kajtek1

Can't wait to read the final outcome for the mods. Can you post the price?
The only reason I was planning DEF delete was getting spare wheel space, so I would remove whole tank. There is bunch of sensors on the tank as it is having 2 plugs with several wires in it. Since the tuner did not manage DEF deleting, I can live with that.
DEF just sprays some cheap fluid into final exhaust for catching particles, meaning it will still work without DPF.
If you have it deleted, the fluid has pretty short life and will crystalize, so you better suck it out and leave the tank clean.
Side note DEF in high temperatures has 2 months shelf life. MB makes tank that will run for 15,000 miles, what in my case is over a year. Did not have problem with DEF aging yet in my cars, but there is potential for troubles.
Now I tend to keep DEF level low and add refreshing doze every few months.

Babukb2

for sure I can post the final price. My guess is the final cost parts and labour will be around $2000-$2700 CAD
That includes the Buzzken pipe which alone is about 730 and 300 for a DOC CAT for it as per (https://www.tunemyeuro.com/mercedes-...-2012-buzzken/). I think those prices are in USD too.

The metal tank under the spare tire is the DEF tank? Looked like a compressor to me when I peeked under the spare tire once.

Probably should clean out DEF tank then if it will be disabled and just sitting, is it a hard job to do manually/is there a walkthrough somewhere online that you've seen? Maybe a summer project.

Speaking of projects it's also almost time to do my front brakes/rotors. Have to source some tools so I can do it myself and save some money. May tie into the DEF tank but either of you know of any repair manuals online for the W166 ML350? I did some googling but only found a few paid versions, haven't checked my local Canadian tire for a Haynes manual yet though. I can do a lot of work myself as long as I have a guide to follow and ensure I don't miss something important.

peter2772000

I dunno man, sure sounds pricey. Why do you want to take out the cats, they're rarely a problem on these trucks? Save your money and just have the tuner ignore the cat sensors, do the EGR/DEF delete. Do the DPF delete and have the shop use the flanges off your OEM DPF. My shop says they can reinstall the flanges on the DPF if ever it becomes necessary. As stated before, cost me $1400 CAN. You're looking at more than double that if the prices you mentioned truly are in USD.

Babukb2

I didn't/don't want the CATs out. I just saw on the BuzzKen site that if you didn't get the DOC CAT that it called out that you would have a strong smell. So all I did was confirm with him whether there would be a CAT after he did the job as I didn't know whether there was one or whether I had to buy one.
Looking at the exhaust parts blown up on https://www.mboemparts.com/v-2014-me...ust-components I see the CAT, but I don't see the DPF filter anywhere on the blow up. When I initially looked at it I thought the CAT was the DPF in that drawing. Am I missing something or maybe looking at the wrong blown up diagram?

Your 1400 was very enticing and that was why I would've been willing to drive down to Montreal to get the work done, but you did mention they cut you a deal because you were their guinea pig. Also if I run into any issues or problems it will be much more convenient to be able to drive to the shop around here.

I'm still waiting to hear back from the shop about the pipe and set a date, but the pricing break down and possibly why it's higher than yours I think is due to 2 reasons. 1. the buzzken pipe/exhaust - this alone is about $700. 2 - I'm assuming the tune because it's a Malone tune more hp/torque
I think it was about 649 just for the tune, 399 for the software deletes, the cost of the buzzken pipe 700, and then the labour.

peter2772000

Answers in red below


Honestly, if I were you, I'd make a trip of it and come down for 2-3 days to get it done. Rent a car, bring the ball'n chain shopping, see the sites. It'll still cost less in the long run, and you'll have enjoyed yourself as well. I can hook up with you and show you where the car rental place nearby is, as well as the shop. Might even throw a beer down your gullet.....

kajtek1

For comparison, I send my ECU to Sinspeed in UK.
Their offer for DPF tune was 300 pounds, but shipping added some, wire transfer cost and fees added to total about US $600 for the tune.
I am not impress with their communication, but they did the job and for me chiseling DPF was not a big issue.
But that require 1 month turn over when car was brick on the lift.
Would you have more time you can save some on normal shipping and sending check instead of wire transfer. Wells Fargo charged me $49 for the service.

peter2772000

You had nothing to lose, your DPF was permanently blocked to begin with. I'd have done the same thing if it wasn't a big deal to bash out the insides. How hard was it, by the way?

todds87ss

use a long masonry drill bit, drill several holes, then poke away. The more holes, the better. Not a biggie.
Yes, the smell is worse. I think this is because the tune is a simple one. The fuel map seems increased everywhere, vice left alone near idle.

todds87ss

The cat hangs off of the turbo on the E350. The DPF is after that, separated by a V-band clamp. You can tell the DPF by the 2 DP sensor fittings on either side of it - leading to the DPF sensor.

Babukb2

funny enough that was the original plan. "honey we're heading to montreal for a weekend, as soon as i find a shop" she was thrilled. but that trip would DEFINITELY cost me more in the end! lol

looking at the malone site https://malonetuning.com/ecu-tuning/mercedes-smart-cdi
it looks like you got the deletes for free, unless they just discounted it because you didnt want more hp, so they kind of rolled in the tune/delete into the 600.
so +/- 600 was the tune/delete, so does that mean 800 was labour costs, since total was 1400 and you didnt install a pipe?

the shop i went to actually initially said they only use rawtek, but when he called them they didnt have a pipe for the ML350, so then he got in touch with Buzzken as that was his secondary source.

peter2772000

I'll check the bill when I get back up north (I'm in Florida right now) and tell you what the breakdown is, if there are any details in there to begin with. As I've mentioned, I did install a pipe, just not an off-the-shelf pipe. They fabbed up a pipe and reused my OEM flanges, which they promised they could reinstall on my DPF if ever need be.
I went on the BuzzKen site and they offer a pipe only for $730, but their pipe automatically eliminates the cat(s). They even go so far as to warn you that this will cause a smell and offer you the option of that DOC cat you mentioned earlier for an extra $300. I don't get why they feel the need to remove the cat while installing the DPF bypass...
https://www.tunemyeuro.com/mercedes/

The shops theoretically already know what parameters to change for any deletes as well as hp gains, I can't see them charging much more for power gains since they're already in there. When I'm back up, I may call them for clarification, just for grins....