1988 300TE - Misfires - Part #2
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Well in the other thread you can see I had a problem with the tire....
While at the mechanic I was talking with the guy about my misfire (I've taken it to him before as he did the injector that was leaking)....and he said that after the shop closes on thursdays he has a dedicated mercedes+bmw mechanic who he said "Is the absolute guru of Mercedes and BMW cars".
So I'm gonna leave the car with him overnight on thursday as the guy said he has seen him resolve the weirdest problems ever and he knows older Mercedes inside out.
Fingers crossed will report back on Friday!
While at the mechanic I was talking with the guy about my misfire (I've taken it to him before as he did the injector that was leaking)....and he said that after the shop closes on thursdays he has a dedicated mercedes+bmw mechanic who he said "Is the absolute guru of Mercedes and BMW cars".
So I'm gonna leave the car with him overnight on thursday as the guy said he has seen him resolve the weirdest problems ever and he knows older Mercedes inside out.
Fingers crossed will report back on Friday!
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Joined: Feb 2008
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From: Orland Park, Illinois
1994 E320 (current)
Good luck. You should start a spreadsheet to keep track of all that has been replaced and post it. That way when Newbies jump on and try and tell you it is the Ignition, timing or the plugs you can simply say "scroll up"
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Well...about the repair....looks like the guy is sick and won't be in tonight so its been pushed til Monday. I'm in no rush so not a big deal. Gotta chase down the towing company to pay for my tire damage!
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OKAY!!
He took a real good look over the entire car and the problem resides over the head gasket. There is a drop in compression (leak-down) that is causing the misfire. He said that its doubling up as my mounts are also shot....And a leaky water pump...When I did the leak down I had some funky readings over cylinder 1 + 2 but the gauge was all funky so I couldn't tell for sure if it was a problem or not....And I was trying to avoid the most expensive possible problem by doing the cheaper, routine ones first.
So we got Head Gasket, Mounts and Water pump. I can't afford to have someone do the head gasket so I'll have to do it myself. I can't drop $1500 that he quoted me for the gasket.
So from this point, I think the first thing would be to do the mounts and water pump. I have a leak on the oil pan gasket...so that requires taking the engine out of the mounts, correct?
If so, then it makes sense to do the water pump, mounts and oil pan gasket over a weekend....
Once those are done, then I can do the head gasket and finish the car once and for all.
Oil pan gasket, engine mounts, and water pump are straight forward enough -- But what about the head gasket? Do I need any special tools? My timing chain at my current miles will be fine so I have no reason to replace it at this time. The head shouldn't need reconditioning at 87k miles should it?
Much appreciated guys
He took a real good look over the entire car and the problem resides over the head gasket. There is a drop in compression (leak-down) that is causing the misfire. He said that its doubling up as my mounts are also shot....And a leaky water pump...When I did the leak down I had some funky readings over cylinder 1 + 2 but the gauge was all funky so I couldn't tell for sure if it was a problem or not....And I was trying to avoid the most expensive possible problem by doing the cheaper, routine ones first.
So we got Head Gasket, Mounts and Water pump. I can't afford to have someone do the head gasket so I'll have to do it myself. I can't drop $1500 that he quoted me for the gasket.
So from this point, I think the first thing would be to do the mounts and water pump. I have a leak on the oil pan gasket...so that requires taking the engine out of the mounts, correct?
If so, then it makes sense to do the water pump, mounts and oil pan gasket over a weekend....
Once those are done, then I can do the head gasket and finish the car once and for all.
Oil pan gasket, engine mounts, and water pump are straight forward enough -- But what about the head gasket? Do I need any special tools? My timing chain at my current miles will be fine so I have no reason to replace it at this time. The head shouldn't need reconditioning at 87k miles should it?
Much appreciated guys
Last edited by ps2cho; Aug 26, 2008 at 01:06 AM.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 844
Likes: 1
From: Orland Park, Illinois
1994 E320 (current)
OKAY!!
He took a real good look over the entire car and the problem resides over the head gasket. There is a drop in compression (leak-down) that is causing the misfire. He said that its doubling up as my mounts are also shot....And a leaky water pump...When I did the leak down I had some funky readings over cylinder 1 + 2 but the gauge was all funky so I couldn't tell for sure if it was a problem or not....And I was trying to avoid the most expensive possible problem by doing the cheaper, routine ones first.
So we got Head Gasket, Mounts and Water pump. I can't afford to have someone do the head gasket so I'll have to do it myself. I can't drop $1500 that he quoted me for the gasket.
So from this point, I think the first thing would be to do the mounts and water pump. I have a leak on the oil pan gasket...so that requires taking the engine out of the mounts, correct?
If so, then it makes sense to do the water pump, mounts and oil pan gasket over a weekend....
Once those are done, then I can do the head gasket and finish the car once and for all.
Oil pan gasket, engine mounts, and water pump are straight forward enough -- But what about the head gasket? Do I need any special tools? My timing chain at my current miles will be fine so I have no reason to replace it at this time. The head shouldn't need reconditioning at 87k miles should it?
Much appreciated guys
He took a real good look over the entire car and the problem resides over the head gasket. There is a drop in compression (leak-down) that is causing the misfire. He said that its doubling up as my mounts are also shot....And a leaky water pump...When I did the leak down I had some funky readings over cylinder 1 + 2 but the gauge was all funky so I couldn't tell for sure if it was a problem or not....And I was trying to avoid the most expensive possible problem by doing the cheaper, routine ones first.
So we got Head Gasket, Mounts and Water pump. I can't afford to have someone do the head gasket so I'll have to do it myself. I can't drop $1500 that he quoted me for the gasket.
So from this point, I think the first thing would be to do the mounts and water pump. I have a leak on the oil pan gasket...so that requires taking the engine out of the mounts, correct?
If so, then it makes sense to do the water pump, mounts and oil pan gasket over a weekend....
Once those are done, then I can do the head gasket and finish the car once and for all.
Oil pan gasket, engine mounts, and water pump are straight forward enough -- But what about the head gasket? Do I need any special tools? My timing chain at my current miles will be fine so I have no reason to replace it at this time. The head shouldn't need reconditioning at 87k miles should it?
Much appreciated guys
1. A good torque wrench and the torque and tighting order info. The head bolts are torque to yield which means that you are stretching the bolts to the point when you take them out they cannot be used again.
2. Good set of head bolts ( gotta be replaced when you crack open the head.)
3. Hi tack gasket adhesive. Before you put the gasket on you spray both sides with the hi-tack and let it sit till it is really tacky(ussually red in color) this seals everything up nice and tight. (hang it from a coak hanger or something)
4. A good 3M light abrasive pad to knock off and clean all the surfaces of the head and engine.
Also when you open up the engine take a look at the timing chain guides often times the guides go and that is what will eventually doom the chain. Guides are like $30 for the whole set and they are worth the $$.
Head Gaskets are pretty easy so long as you make sure on the reasembly you get all your bolt torque correct. After you go through the order of torqing the bolts go back through and "reclick" them. Torque is relative to the combined compression of the head to the block and will change slightly from first bolt to the last. It is a fun Job to do cause you get to see the condition of the piston walls and how clean or not clean you engine is running.
Good luck.
Last edited by GEDaggett; Aug 26, 2008 at 08:23 AM.
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When it comes to the head gasket you need a few things.
1. A good torque wrench and the torque and tighting order info. The head bolts are torque to yield which means that you are stretching the bolts to the point when you take them out they cannot be used again.
2. Good set of head bolts ( gotta be replaced when you crack open the head.)
3. Hi tack gasket adhesive. Before you put the gasket on you spray both sides with the hi-tack and let it sit till it is really tacky(ussually red in color) this seals everything up nice and tight. (hang it from a coak hanger or something)
4. A good 3M light abrasive pad to knock off and clean all the surfaces of the head and engine.
Also when you open up the engine take a look at the timing chain guides often times the guides go and that is what will eventually doom the chain. Guides are like $30 for the whole set and they are worth the $$.
Head Gaskets are pretty easy so long as you make sure on the reasembly you get all your bolt torque correct. After you go through the order of torqing the bolts go back through and "reclick" them. Torque is relative to the combined compression of the head to the block and will change slightly from first bolt to the last. It is a fun Job to do cause you get to see the condition of the piston walls and how clean or not clean you engine is running.
Good luck.
1. A good torque wrench and the torque and tighting order info. The head bolts are torque to yield which means that you are stretching the bolts to the point when you take them out they cannot be used again.
2. Good set of head bolts ( gotta be replaced when you crack open the head.)
3. Hi tack gasket adhesive. Before you put the gasket on you spray both sides with the hi-tack and let it sit till it is really tacky(ussually red in color) this seals everything up nice and tight. (hang it from a coak hanger or something)
4. A good 3M light abrasive pad to knock off and clean all the surfaces of the head and engine.
Also when you open up the engine take a look at the timing chain guides often times the guides go and that is what will eventually doom the chain. Guides are like $30 for the whole set and they are worth the $$.
Head Gaskets are pretty easy so long as you make sure on the reasembly you get all your bolt torque correct. After you go through the order of torqing the bolts go back through and "reclick" them. Torque is relative to the combined compression of the head to the block and will change slightly from first bolt to the last. It is a fun Job to do cause you get to see the condition of the piston walls and how clean or not clean you engine is running.
Good luck.
Yes seeing as I have the engine open, if anything "needs" to be done that is quick, cheap and easy, I'll do it for sure.
What about reconditioning the head, would this be needed you think at 87,000 miles? I mean last thing I'd want is a year down the road the gasket craps out again because the head is warped. Do I need a machine to check its okay or will a good flat ruler work?
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Joined: Feb 2008
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From: Orland Park, Illinois
1994 E320 (current)
Thanks
Yes seeing as I have the engine open, if anything "needs" to be done that is quick, cheap and easy, I'll do it for sure.
What about reconditioning the head, would this be needed you think at 87,000 miles? I mean last thing I'd want is a year down the road the gasket craps out again because the head is warped. Do I need a machine to check its okay or will a good flat ruler work?
Yes seeing as I have the engine open, if anything "needs" to be done that is quick, cheap and easy, I'll do it for sure.
What about reconditioning the head, would this be needed you think at 87,000 miles? I mean last thing I'd want is a year down the road the gasket craps out again because the head is warped. Do I need a machine to check its okay or will a good flat ruler work?
I have a very good machine shop up here in Chicago that will plane the head and check and replace all valve componetns and hot dip and pressure test it for $275.00 flat fee. You will have a new head when they are done. To me it is totally worth it seeing as you have an undiagnosed misfire pressure type issue. If the head is warped or there is a small crack they will find it and advise. You just can't do that with the head on the car. It will typically take 2 days to turn it around. The one time My dad did a head job with out a recondition it backfired litterally the car back fired and sputtered because the head wasn't a good seal.
So to sum it up my feeling is to recondition it.
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Personally whenever I do a head gasket I recondition the head. Mileage isn't always the only thing to consider. With an aluminum head it only takes one major overheating incedent to do some damage.
I have a very good machine shop up here in Chicago that will plane the head and check and replace all valve componetns and hot dip and pressure test it for $275.00 flat fee. You will have a new head when they are done. To me it is totally worth it seeing as you have an undiagnosed misfire pressure type issue. If the head is warped or there is a small crack they will find it and advise. You just can't do that with the head on the car. It will typically take 2 days to turn it around. The one time My dad did a head job with out a recondition it backfired litterally the car back fired and sputtered because the head wasn't a good seal.
So to sum it up my feeling is to recondition it.
I have a very good machine shop up here in Chicago that will plane the head and check and replace all valve componetns and hot dip and pressure test it for $275.00 flat fee. You will have a new head when they are done. To me it is totally worth it seeing as you have an undiagnosed misfire pressure type issue. If the head is warped or there is a small crack they will find it and advise. You just can't do that with the head on the car. It will typically take 2 days to turn it around. The one time My dad did a head job with out a recondition it backfired litterally the car back fired and sputtered because the head wasn't a good seal.
So to sum it up my feeling is to recondition it.
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Posts: 1,325
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From: Seattle
1990 300ce
my fingers are crossed for you, man. I read this thread from cover to cover.
My car has had a rough idle for my whole 5 years of ownership and I've gone through more parts, opinions, diagnostics, smoke tests, etc than I care to think about. I still have the problem and I'm ready to push this POS over a cliff!!
EZL tested by swapping in another car's, no change
wires, plugs, cap
injectors
head gasket
valve job
Timing chain guides
02 sensor
fuel distributor
smoke test, no vac leaks
cleaned the Idle Control Valve
MAS Control unit (which includes fuel pump relay)
Crank position sensor
Catalytic Converter
Lots of mixture tweaks and adjustments
Overload/OVP relay
belt tensioner
I seem to go through plugs like a maniac. I'm sick of mechanics saying "your plugs are fouled". Duh, but what's causing it to happen every 15k miles, idiots??? root cause analysis, please?
Not all of these repairs were done as an attempt to fix the bad idle and hesitation, but obviously none of them have fixed it.
So not to cast a dark cloud over this. I really hope it works out for you. I will be jealous.
My car has had a rough idle for my whole 5 years of ownership and I've gone through more parts, opinions, diagnostics, smoke tests, etc than I care to think about. I still have the problem and I'm ready to push this POS over a cliff!!
EZL tested by swapping in another car's, no change
wires, plugs, cap
injectors
head gasket
valve job
Timing chain guides
02 sensor
fuel distributor
smoke test, no vac leaks
cleaned the Idle Control Valve
MAS Control unit (which includes fuel pump relay)
Crank position sensor
Catalytic Converter
Lots of mixture tweaks and adjustments
Overload/OVP relay
belt tensioner
I seem to go through plugs like a maniac. I'm sick of mechanics saying "your plugs are fouled". Duh, but what's causing it to happen every 15k miles, idiots??? root cause analysis, please?
Not all of these repairs were done as an attempt to fix the bad idle and hesitation, but obviously none of them have fixed it.
So not to cast a dark cloud over this. I really hope it works out for you. I will be jealous.
Last edited by Bigpete123; Aug 27, 2008 at 01:15 AM.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 844
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From: Orland Park, Illinois
1994 E320 (current)
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my fingers are crossed for you, man. I read this thread from cover to cover.
My car has had a rough idle for my whole 5 years of ownership and I've gone through more parts, opinions, diagnostics, smoke tests, etc than I care to think about. I still have the problem and I'm ready to push this POS over a cliff!!
EZL tested by swapping in another car's, no change
wires, plugs, cap
injectors
head gasket
valve job
Timing chain guides
02 sensor
fuel distributor
smoke test, no vac leaks
cleaned the Idle Control Valve
MAS Control unit (which includes fuel pump relay)
Crank position sensor
Catalytic Converter
Lots of mixture tweaks and adjustments
Overload/OVP relay
belt tensioner
I seem to go through plugs like a maniac. I'm sick of mechanics saying "your plugs are fouled". Duh, but what's causing it to happen every 15k miles, idiots??? root cause analysis, please?
Not all of these repairs were done as an attempt to fix the bad idle and hesitation, but obviously none of them have fixed it.
So not to cast a dark cloud over this. I really hope it works out for you. I will be jealous.
My car has had a rough idle for my whole 5 years of ownership and I've gone through more parts, opinions, diagnostics, smoke tests, etc than I care to think about. I still have the problem and I'm ready to push this POS over a cliff!!
EZL tested by swapping in another car's, no change
wires, plugs, cap
injectors
head gasket
valve job
Timing chain guides
02 sensor
fuel distributor
smoke test, no vac leaks
cleaned the Idle Control Valve
MAS Control unit (which includes fuel pump relay)
Crank position sensor
Catalytic Converter
Lots of mixture tweaks and adjustments
Overload/OVP relay
belt tensioner
I seem to go through plugs like a maniac. I'm sick of mechanics saying "your plugs are fouled". Duh, but what's causing it to happen every 15k miles, idiots??? root cause analysis, please?
Not all of these repairs were done as an attempt to fix the bad idle and hesitation, but obviously none of them have fixed it.
So not to cast a dark cloud over this. I really hope it works out for you. I will be jealous.
Look familiar?
If so, your stem seals need to be done. I don't see that on the list and may be the cause of your misfire. The above were the condition of my ones before I did the seals. Now they are perfect and not a drop of oil
----
As much as I would love to get an extra 5-10% extra HP out of P+P....I just want a normal idle at this point in time
One thing at a time!
Last edited by ps2cho; Aug 27, 2008 at 03:19 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2008
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From: Orland Park, Illinois
1994 E320 (current)
If your plugs are fouling then your valve stem seals need to be done!!
Look familiar?
If so, your stem seals need to be done. I don't see that on the list and may be the cause of your misfire. The above were the condition of my ones before I did the seals. Now they are perfect and not a drop of oil
Look familiar?
If so, your stem seals need to be done. I don't see that on the list and may be the cause of your misfire. The above were the condition of my ones before I did the seals. Now they are perfect and not a drop of oil
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From: Bellevue, NE
1995 E320 SE, 162,000 Miles (Sold) 2007 CLK350 Cabriolet 2014 ML550
Toward the beginning of your first thread I thought you mentioned that the valve guide seals were replaced. Wouldn't the head gasket have been replaced and the head reconditioned at that time? It has only gone a few thousand miles since then so why is this an issue again? 
It doesn't add up, unless they did a hack job the first time.
It doesn't add up, unless they did a hack job the first time.
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Toward the beginning of your first thread I thought you mentioned that the valve guide seals were replaced. Wouldn't the head gasket have been replaced and the head reconditioned at that time? It has only gone a few thousand miles since then so why is this an issue again? It doesn't add up, unless they did a hack job the first time.
It doesn't add up, unless they did a hack job the first time.
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From: Bellevue, NE
1995 E320 SE, 162,000 Miles (Sold) 2007 CLK350 Cabriolet 2014 ML550
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I did the seals....and I didn't need to pull the head off. The valve stem seals don't require the head to be removed. I got to them using compressed air.
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So after this discovery, he said that he tweaked the mounts so it would sit a little better....and the car feels alot nicer....almost to the point where sometimes there NO misfire at all....
...I'm starting to think that its not a misfire at all -- just horrible mounts which cause the shaking at idle....then to compliment it, the head gasket is causing the poor mpg and lack of performance....Combined it makes it "feel" like a misfire, but maybe its not?
I am for sure going to just do the mounts + water pump first and see where that takes me. I mean I get roughly 16mpg average...so is a head gasket worth the few extra mpg and performance.
I had iWrock over at Mercedesshop forum drive my car as he has a 300TE as well and he said that it was awesome condition both inside and out...but the engine felt like it was missing about 30-40HP in comparison to his TE. Same year, same engine.
...I'm starting to think that its not a misfire at all -- just horrible mounts which cause the shaking at idle....then to compliment it, the head gasket is causing the poor mpg and lack of performance....Combined it makes it "feel" like a misfire, but maybe its not?
I am for sure going to just do the mounts + water pump first and see where that takes me. I mean I get roughly 16mpg average...so is a head gasket worth the few extra mpg and performance.
I had iWrock over at Mercedesshop forum drive my car as he has a 300TE as well and he said that it was awesome condition both inside and out...but the engine felt like it was missing about 30-40HP in comparison to his TE. Same year, same engine.
Last edited by ps2cho; Aug 31, 2008 at 12:49 PM.
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From: Socialist West Coast
95 E320, 19 Ram 1500 Hemi, 21 GLS 580(wife)
The heads are not heavy, my brother and I rebuilt his CE's head a year or so ago, and I could lift it myself, and it only took two of us to get it into the car and on the block.
Now, take a OM617 head... that is a heavy cast iron sun-bich.
I had a rough Idle on my TE and replaced the motor mounts and found that it solved 99% of the problem.
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Oh c'mon, every little bit helps. Just because it is more practical doesn't mean a TE isn't as deserving for more power.
The heads are not heavy, my brother and I rebuilt his CE's head a year or so ago, and I could lift it myself, and it only took two of us to get it into the car and on the block.
Now, take a OM617 head... that is a heavy cast iron sun-bich.
I had a rough Idle on my TE and replaced the motor mounts and found that it solved 99% of the problem.
The heads are not heavy, my brother and I rebuilt his CE's head a year or so ago, and I could lift it myself, and it only took two of us to get it into the car and on the block.
Now, take a OM617 head... that is a heavy cast iron sun-bich.
I had a rough Idle on my TE and replaced the motor mounts and found that it solved 99% of the problem.
...How difficult is it to replace the chain with everything out? For $31 if its an extra 30mins or so I should just go ahead and do it. I was expecting the chain to be more expensive.
Also, is the transmission modulator easy to access on this car? I think I want to replace it too.
Last edited by ps2cho; Sep 9, 2008 at 12:52 AM.
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Posts: 844
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From: Orland Park, Illinois
1994 E320 (current)
Ok so I am adding my needed parts to my shopping cart and a new timing chain is only $31....
...How difficult is it to replace the chain with everything out? For $31 if its an extra 30mins or so I should just go ahead and do it. I was expecting the chain to be more expensive.
Also, is the transmission modulator easy to access on this car? I think I want to replace it too.
...How difficult is it to replace the chain with everything out? For $31 if its an extra 30mins or so I should just go ahead and do it. I was expecting the chain to be more expensive.
Also, is the transmission modulator easy to access on this car? I think I want to replace it too.
The timing chain is going to come off anyway so it is only a matter of putting the new one in place and running it over the bottom pulley and over the guides (check on the price of the guides, it is not a bad idea to have them in case they are worn out). Since you don't have teh twin cam this is even easier. As far as the modulator it is pretty easily accessable and about an hour of labor to get it up out and the new one back in.
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The timing chain is going to come off anyway so it is only a matter of putting the new one in place and running it over the bottom pulley and over the guides (check on the price of the guides, it is not a bad idea to have them in case they are worn out). Since you don't have teh twin cam this is even easier. As far as the modulator it is pretty easily accessable and about an hour of labor to get it up out and the new one back in.
I'll get the guides too thanks.
I think that is all my questions for now....Will update soon. Gotta clear up my garage and make room
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From: Orland Park, Illinois
1994 E320 (current)
A little bonus tip. Go to the Home depot or wherever and pick up one of those cheap orginizers that hang on the wall for nuts and bolts (the kind with the little clear plastic pullout drawers) and a sharpie marker. As you remove bolts put them in groups into one of the pullouts and label it with the sharpie then slde it back in. It will save you valuable time when you go to put everything back together because it will be arranged in reverse order and you won't have to guess. Or worse try and figure out where that one bolt goes that fell onto the floor. I use this method and it is a tremendous help.
