Yeah, I've seen the old timers use an egg crate sorting the parts in divided cups. Works great 'till you knock it on the floor.

Good luck on the upper-end surgery.

 

I'm gonna use ziplock bags and label them Should be just as good. I was looking over and Haynes manual and it has it all step by step so I see no reason why anything could go wrong.

Got my new thermostat + serpentine belt today. Might as well leave the belt til I do the gasket.

Garage is all clean now Just gotta wait for my dad to fix his 87 Suburban as he did a complete bottom end rebuild but its got a weird backfire so soon as he has got it figured out (buyer waiting on the car!) my car is going under the knife!

 

G'day Everyone,

I've slogged through your ordeal in fixing the M103 idle and start issue....and that was just by reading (admittedly though and there's not much I haven't checked, without changing, that you have covered!).

I'm about to visit a local, backyard mechanic who plays with Volvo's and Merc's (inc a number of turbo conversions etc.) and will pass on any insights he might have into Bosch KE-Jetronic controlled cars.

Again, thank you for cataloguing what has become an intriguing journey that, I am sure, has captured the interest of many W124 owners, . I was discussing this issue over the back fence of a mate's place with a bloke who is having very similar problems with an electronically injected '91 V8 Holden Commodore (check out [URL="http://www.hsv.com.au/index.asp"]http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/...ry?vehicleid=4and while your there Ford Australia should be of inerest to Yank car fans: http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Conte...1534&c=DFYPage and http://www.fpv.com.au/index.aspx anybody considering a straight six turbo conversion should look closely at the specs of the FPV F6.

Anyway, I'm straying from the point. I am hanging out to know how your head gasket change is going and wish you all the best....for all of our sakes!

Regards,

Tim

Ps. Check out this intro to te Bosch KE-jetronic : http://www.scribd.com/doc/3299223/Bo...anual-?page=15

 

G'day Everyone,

I've slogged through your ordeal in fixing the M103 idle and start issue....and that was just by reading (admittedly though and there's not much I haven't checked, without changing, that you have covered!).

I'm about to visit a local, backyard mechanic who plays with Volvo's and Merc's (inc a number of turbo conversions etc.) and will pass on any insights he might have into Bosch KE-Jetronic controlled cars.

Again, thank you for cataloguing what has become an intriguing journey that, I am sure, has captured the interest of many W124 owners, . I was discussing this issue over the back fence of a mate's place with a bloke who is having very similar problems with an electronically injected '91 V8 Holden Commodore (check out [URL="http://www.hsv.com.au/index.asp"]http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/...ry?vehicleid=4and while your there Ford Australia should be of inerest to Yank car fans: http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Conte...1534&c=DFYPage and http://www.fpv.com.au/index.aspx anybody considering a straight six turbo conversion should look closely at the specs of the FPV F6.

Anyway, I'm straying from the point. I am hanging out to know how your head gasket change is going and wish you all the best....for all of our sakes!

Regards,

Tim

Ps. Check out this intro to te Bosch KE-jetronic : http://www.scribd.com/doc/3299223/Bo...anual-?page=15

 

Thanks I have family staying with me right now so I'm waiting for the hordes to leave so I can get going as I can't really hide away in the garage all day taking the top end apart.

Soon as its all clear shes coming apart! I've decided to do the engine mounts and oil pan gasket (leaking like no other!) as I gotta lift the engine for both so might as well do them at the same time. Once that is done, then I'll move onto the head gasket and I'll replace the water pump too.

 

Looks like the buyer for my dads Suburban bailed on us -- (good for me now the garage will be free for me to get going on this finally

Alright I'm gathering the parts.

So far I got:
Head Gasket
Water Pump
Timing Chain and Inner + Outer Rail/Guide
2 Motor Mounts

I think I want to have the head sent off to a machine shop and get it done professionally. I'll probably have them do the valve guides at the same time.

Think I'm missing anything?
If money is no objection -- any other recommendations? I want the top end to be absolutely amazing and rock solid.

 

If whatever shop you take the head can pressure test it that would be good. Also don't forget the high tack gasket adhesive for reassembly. Other than that, have at it. Looking forward to hearing the results.

 

Yes I am looking forward too

Since changing my thermostat, I have been having a strong smell of coolant through the vents -- so that could be the heatercore, but right now I would think it would be a wiser decision to do the top end because I know that I have coolant leaking out of the back as there are growths there. There could be a possibility of the leaks in the back causing it.

I'll make sure the shop can pressure test the head! Just gotta search around and find a good shop near by.

 

I would look for one of two shops; one that works on race engines and can test for hairline crack in the head (magnaflux works for ferrous heads, so probably a pressure check) or a shop that's been around for yrs and has an outstanding rep. A good machine shop can also straighten an aluminum head, if warped/needed. If they feel they must shave/re-machine the head's surface, make sure they "kiss" the surface, or you'll be looking at installing lash pads etc.

If my tools hadn't been stolen, I would already have done all this and could report. However, looking at the engine (103), I see no reason (as the manual states), to remove the head with the whole intake intact. You can get at all those screws easily and leave everything on the intake side in place on the motor. Most good head gasket kits, like the Felpro kit have intake gaskets. I would just disconnect the exhaust at the header pipe, pull the head and leave it at that. But like I said, I haven't been able to do it just yet.

The mounts are easy; just jack your engine from underneath using wood to protect things. (Don't jack under your oil pan however!) Once moved enough to release the pressure, replace the mount. Compared to the bother with the cylinder head, it's a walk in the park.

Hope the coolant smell is not your heater core....heard the dash has to be removed for that naughty bit.

Kevin

 

Thanks. I was hoping that I could leave most of the intake side of the engine at bay and I was assuming that for the most part -- it can stay as it is.
I'll look for those type of shops thanks!

I ordered all the parts yesterday and I have 5 days off work starting Tuesday so I plan to start tearing the engine up then and maybe have it done by the end of the following week!

What about special tools? Anybody pipe in?

EDIT: A guy just PM'd me on another forum an awesome thread!
http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=49516

 

Wow, fantastic how-to UK link!. The pics are awful, but workable. I'm not clear why you have to loosen the struts under the car...also, there's nomenclature differences between US speak and Brit speak. I learned that from using Bentley manuals in the past on Jaguars. When you're taking the head to a shop, ask if they are going to charge extra to remove and re-install the cam. If the difference is negligible, I'd leave it intact. He's dressing up the valves himself and hence the reason for removing the cam.

Tools; You can do it without a slide hammer, but I think it will be much easier with one. That 17mm hex "bar" stock could be substituted with the correct, long Allen-I can't imagine where you'd find metric hex bar stock here. I don't think we'll have any trouble finding the correct Torex bit. Good torque wrench a must....new cylinder head bolts a must (even if your old ones measure within the limits-pitch them, as new ones are cheap insurance and the bolts are designed to 'give their lives' just for the one time.) Make sure you get the complete set of gaskets along with intake manifold gasket, valve stem seals etc. Any good Sears will have most of these tools in stock....I had them all but the slide hammer, until the theft. Oh yeah, don't forget the bit that inserts into the cylinder head bolts. Got mine at a NAPA right off a turnstile. I'd make sure you have a good selection of metric wrenches; both box end and open (offsets etc) along with a nice metric socket set, both deep sockets and reg. Make sure you have a variety of extensions and swivel adapters.

I with you till the end on this bro......I'll be doing this myself before the cold sets in. As it was put to me by a MB tech, the failure is due to oil and coolant passages so close together in one corner, that the 'grouping' would make a marksman proud (bad engineering design). At some point, these engines will have cooling system failure because the electric fans aren't working properly etc and the head warps, causing the gasket to fail at that critical corner.

Kevin

 

It may be worthy to review that no-compromise head rebuild. The shop will absolutely test the surface for warp. They certainly will replace any and all parts you specify. So what should you specify?

Valve guides and retainer clips are a must. The valves and seats can be checked and re-ground. Springs can be tested for reuse. Were you thinking new valves and springs? Cam surface and journal measurement is usually recommended.

A good shop can provide you with the "hit-list". It's not trying to save a couple bucks, it's getting a machinists opinion and not giving unnecessary direction to replace stuff that sounds good.

The dread coolant odor may be the gasket breach with anti-freeze smelling vapor finding a way into the cabin through a hole in the firewall. If it gets more present when running the heater, you're going core diving.

"Core diving", sounds like a Discovery Channel special.

 

My favorite method of organizing parts as I remove them is to place them on a large piece of cardboard and punch holes in the cardboard to insert any screws or bolts. I then write on the cardboard to identify them. I find this to be more convenient as you can easily see all of the parts.

 

It may be worthy to review that no-compromise head rebuild. The shop will absolutely test the surface for warp. They certainly will replace any and all parts you specify. So what should you specify?

Valve guides and retainer clips are a must. The valves and seats can be checked and re-ground. Springs can be tested for reuse. Were you thinking new valves and springs? Cam surface and journal measurement is usually recommended.

A good shop can provide you with the "hit-list". It's not trying to save a couple bucks, it's getting a machinists opinion and not giving unnecessary direction to replace stuff that sounds good.


This is exactly why it's KEY to find a reputable shop, do some homework, ask appropriate questions, but let the shop owners do what they think is best. The worst thing you can do is go in there and tell them what you want done, as it should be a free-flowing, intelligent discussion.

In my case, I have done three-angle jobs when I had access to such equipment. My 103 head was done by a shop less than 15K miles ago when my ex still had the car. However, the ex failed to realize that the electric fans weren't working and was driving the car hot. So hot that she had to pull over and let it cool at times. That just tells me that she warped the head, even though the valve job is relatively fresh. That may or may not be in my favor with the machinist (we talked about it). I'm letting him have my trust that I value his opinion, once he gets into it. I don't know him well enough to ask to see the valve train after it's torn down-he might take that the wrong way. This is the first time I've personally used this shop.

I would think that any MB valve job would be a "no compromise" affair. To save a $100 or so is ludicrous, juxtaposed against early potential failure. Even if you were going to sell the car shortly, it's not good form to cheapen the rebuild.

Kevin

 

I have lucked up and found a shop that I go in and give them the head and don't have to say anything more than "go over it and fix whatever you need to" and that is exactly what they do. You can find a good shop sometimes by finding out who the dealerships use or liek stated before find a good race shop and ask them.

As far as tools here is my short list

1. 3M light abrasive pads that can do on the end of your drill for knocking the old gunk of the surfaces that are going to get gaskets put on them.

2. 2 tourque wrenches a 1/2 drive for ft lbs and a 3/8 drive for inch lbs.

3. a bundle of large wire ties to pull hoses and wiring connectors out of the way and hold them there.

4. Some paint markers to write on things you want to remember something about.

5. Parts solvent and cleaner that you can just throw parts in to disolve dirt and grime (also for a reasonable price most shops will dip your intake manifold and clean it up for you. you might even be able to just get them to throw it in with the head cost.)

6. Make sure you have the proper torqing order for the head bolts.


Every one pretty much touched on everything else you need. Just find that shop and you ready to go.

Have Fun.

 

With everything said above -- looks like I am ready to go. My dad works at a Kia design center so he's asking around for shop recommendations. You are right though -- I have no problem spending the extra few hundred to make sure everything is in order. This is a long term fix as I have no intention to sell the car so I wanna do this right the first time round.

I got a new set of head bolts, but what about "Oh yeah, don't forget the bit that inserts into the cylinder head bolts." ?? What part?

Valve Stem seals were done by me roughly 10,000 miles ago and were done perfectly so I shouldn't need to replace them correct?

 

They will check the valve stem seats with the pressure test and visually. But since you did them "perfectly" you shouldn't have to work about them.

 

I got a new set of head bolts, but what about "Oh yeah, don't forget the bit that inserts into the cylinder head bolts." ?? What part?


I was talking about the bit attachment that fits into the cylinder head bolts (factory), so you can then attach an extension for your torque wrench. Not sure what you got for replacement head bolts? Anyway, it's not a Allen and it's not a Torex if I remember correctly ....NAPA only had two specifically for cylinder head bolts; one large and one small....it was the large one. It was stolen with the rest of my tools, or I would go look it at it.

Kevin

 

They make those round fiber pads now for stripping pant with your drill-perfect for cleaning the tops of the pistons. Just size one smaller than your piston top, chuck in the drill and watch the coke & carbon fly!

Even the soft brass metal wheels are still metal (and can scratch with too much pressure), so these fiber things are the ticket.

Kevin

 

My plugs were fouling after every 300 miles and now after 10,000 not even a hint at all I was pretty proud of myself! Never had seen inside the engine before LOL!

 

Sweet. It is pretty cool to get inside there and see everything. Wait till you have the pleasure of a full out of chasis engine rebuild. Those are very cool.

 

Found a shop recommended to us by a guy who restores older jags and he is VERY meticulous with his cars -- so its gotta be a good reference.

He said he will Skim the head, pressure test, install guides + refinish valves for $300.

Sound reasonable?

 

Sounds about right give or take $30.00. He is right in the ball park especially if he does good work. What is his turn around time?

 

He said 2-3 days if I hand it over on Monday....so I plan to have it out by Sunday night

 

Sound good. If he said a week then it would be likely he sends it out but 2-3 is normal. Thought of something else you might need. Go and get a large rubber mallet (if you don't already have one). When you take all the head bolts out you may have to knock the head a couple of times on the corner to break it loose and a rubber mallet will do the job nicely with no damage to the head. Also if you are going to be getting any rain in your area while you have the head cracked off the engine take a some suran wrap and place it over top the engine pressing it down for a seal then you won't get any surface currosion in the cyinder walls. You can also just wipe them down with oil on a clean shop rag and that will help aswell. Depending on where you live currosion can start on the surfaces of unprtected metal very quickly.