300E Turbo LPG Project
Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
124 320ce amg widebody twin turbo, the nail
not weird when you think about it, amg would have used the best parts available, dont forget, this was a pre merger engine build, std 103 engine was pulled from car in uk and sent to germany to be done at amg.
mods included head work, mechanical tappet mod, cam change 3.2 crank ect, oil squirter's would have been available, so they would have been daft not to use them.
mods included head work, mechanical tappet mod, cam change 3.2 crank ect, oil squirter's would have been available, so they would have been daft not to use them.
Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
124 320ce amg widebody twin turbo, the nail
that diff mod is one i'm watching carefully, i missed a 2.65 lsd from a 560 the other month, so am still looking for a diff,(3.27 is way too low for these engines when boosted and manual)
this is holding up the six speed swap, as i dont want to have to have two prop shafts made, so need to do both at once.
this is holding up the six speed swap, as i dont want to have to have two prop shafts made, so need to do both at once.
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 534
Likes: 13
From: Beirut, Lebanon
2006 C55 AMG 6 speed
Widebody,
I've got the 3.65 diff I believe with the standard 5 speed manual, and my gear ratios aren't bad.
60-100-150-220-?
Never took it past 220, but 5th isn't overdrive. I'm thinking it'll get to 260, and not more.
Which isn't really bad. You get oomph in every gear that way, no?
I intend to get the dogleg tranny this summer, which might have shorter ratios so at that point I'll definitely need to upgrade my differential.
I've got the 3.65 diff I believe with the standard 5 speed manual, and my gear ratios aren't bad.
60-100-150-220-?
Never took it past 220, but 5th isn't overdrive. I'm thinking it'll get to 260, and not more.
Which isn't really bad. You get oomph in every gear that way, no?
I intend to get the dogleg tranny this summer, which might have shorter ratios so at that point I'll definitely need to upgrade my differential.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 151
Likes: 1
From: Australia
300E Turbo
Now way anyone parts these cars either as they are collectors now. I'd be better off with a LSD from another make from down here that's for sure. Some use Nissan GT/GTR diffs but the Ford XRT6 diff is more than enough. Again though, hard to get & expensive plus, prolly need modding with axles etc too. Like anything else custom for the Merc. Who knows 
Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
124 320ce amg widebody twin turbo, the nail
shookman, you indicate your car will do 220 kph>136mph in fourth? and your fifth is not overdrive? ie you think your fith is 1:1 so your fourth will be lower, and will will allow you to do 136mph, doesn't seem correct with 3.65, but i could be wrong.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 370
Likes: 0
From: Lebanon
1995 C 36 AMG; 1992 W124 300E (M103 Ex Mosselman TT KIT) was 320hp @10psi now stock :(
Shoomaken ur 5th is an over drive. Only the old merc 4 speeders and some of the dog legs have direct 5th. If I'm not mistaken 2.3-16 had direct 5th. Later 2.5-16 had overdrive fifth dog legs.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)
Verdad Gallardo
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 370
Likes: 0
From: Lebanon
1995 C 36 AMG; 1992 W124 300E (M103 Ex Mosselman TT KIT) was 320hp @10psi now stock :(
man on a 3.65diff thats an overdrive
its not the amercan equiv of an overdrive but the ratio is less than 1.0:1 and more like 0.87:1
its not the amercan equiv of an overdrive but the ratio is less than 1.0:1 and more like 0.87:1
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 370
Likes: 0
From: Lebanon
1995 C 36 AMG; 1992 W124 300E (M103 Ex Mosselman TT KIT) was 320hp @10psi now stock :(
Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
124 320ce amg widebody twin turbo, the nail
i am not calling you out, and could be wrong, but my research says that All 16V used the identical Getrag box, from (even the first) 2.3-16 up to EVO II, it's all the same gear box 717.404
and the fifth gear is 1:1
the 265 is available with od, but is not the same box as the 16v one.
and the fifth gear is 1:1
the 265 is available with od, but is not the same box as the 16v one.
Last edited by the_widebody; Jun 26, 2011 at 08:55 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 370
Likes: 0
From: Lebanon
1995 C 36 AMG; 1992 W124 300E (M103 Ex Mosselman TT KIT) was 320hp @10psi now stock :(
then u have the right info. i do recall something like that, and i must have been mistaken before. did the 265 come on the euro 300-24?
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 534
Likes: 13
From: Beirut, Lebanon
2006 C55 AMG 6 speed
If I recall correctly, the 265 was a BMW transmission. I had one on my E30/M30.
That was a tank of a tranny.
I doubt it fits our M104's, but if it does I'm doing it TOMORROW. :P
That was a tank of a tranny.
I doubt it fits our M104's, but if it does I'm doing it TOMORROW. :P
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 151
Likes: 1
From: Australia
300E Turbo
Just completed ridiculously thorough research on how the ss .63 A/R turbine housing mated to the GT35R indeed behaves on specific 3.0L platforms. I say ridiculously thorough because I've spent hrs merely sifting through piles & piles of crap (2nd & 3rd hand advice) on forum discussions in order to get to the few posts containing the evidence from members actually owning/testing the stuff that others waffle on about, in order to weigh the 'pros' & 'cons' of the effects each housing has on street performance.
Anyway, finally realising the guy @ original workshop is correct on one important matter.......the .63 A/R housing will be a maniac for the street. Dyno figures aside (VE ie: top end performance/rwhp), the thing will be a wheelspin junkie
Obviously the .82 A/R housing will = greater power & allow boost to come on more gradual (linear) & solve the wheelspin issue but the trade-off will be 500rpm added to spooltime 
What does that exactly mean? If I use the smaller snail, I will have to watch exiting any remotely tight corners, especially in the wet ohhhh FUN
Flipside? What fun this bugger will be once I get used to it hehe 
...........er.......gettin off this ergonomic chair as I really have a sore *** & back & my legs are now totally numb 
Anyway, finally realising the guy @ original workshop is correct on one important matter.......the .63 A/R housing will be a maniac for the street. Dyno figures aside (VE ie: top end performance/rwhp), the thing will be a wheelspin junkie
Obviously the .82 A/R housing will = greater power & allow boost to come on more gradual (linear) & solve the wheelspin issue but the trade-off will be 500rpm added to spooltime What does that exactly mean? If I use the smaller snail, I will have to watch exiting any remotely tight corners, especially in the wet ohhhh FUN
Flipside? What fun this bugger will be once I get used to it hehe ...........er.......gettin off this ergonomic chair as I really have a sore *** & back & my legs are now totally numb
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 534
Likes: 13
From: Beirut, Lebanon
2006 C55 AMG 6 speed
I think the bigger housing is generally healthier for the car, albeit the smaller one is more fun to drive.
I've driven both types of turbocharged cars, high spool and quick spool, and I preferred quick. However, the 300E is more powerful than the Evo at low RPMs, so I have no idea how it would compare on the road.
Best turbo charged car I've driven has got to be the 335i. You've got alot of torque to work with from 1800 rpms.
I guess it depends on what you want from the car.
I've driven both types of turbocharged cars, high spool and quick spool, and I preferred quick. However, the 300E is more powerful than the Evo at low RPMs, so I have no idea how it would compare on the road.
Best turbo charged car I've driven has got to be the 335i. You've got alot of torque to work with from 1800 rpms.
I guess it depends on what you want from the car.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 151
Likes: 1
From: Australia
300E Turbo
It's a difficult call. I know the .82 A/R turbine housing will come on easier/later but the main problem I see with the GT35R is the large .70 A/R comp housing. Quite a mismatch with the .63 A/R turbine housing if you consider the huge air flow capabilities of the comp housing. The smaller GT series turbos have the .60 A/R comp housings.
Last edited by BAD300; Jun 27, 2011 at 08:04 AM.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 151
Likes: 1
From: Australia
300E Turbo
Guys, to get to the point. Is the "sweet spot" of the M103 engine between 4000rpm & 6250rpm as I've read? If that's the case, shouldn't I be building the car to favour that rev range ie: the bigger turbine housing? Especially considering the higher stock CR of 9.2:1 as it should have good response off boost!
Last edited by BAD300; Jun 29, 2011 at 06:52 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,494
Likes: 17
From: REHOBOTH BEACH DE
88-300CE TWIN TURBO, 99-C43, 05-G55K, 71-280SL, 94-E320 CAB, 08 CLK63 BLACK SERIES
If you look at a dyno chart of a properly set up boosted M103 it should peak and be fairly flat between 3800-5500 RPM.
The engine will probably produce about 10%+ more torque then horsepower.
The engine will probably produce about 10%+ more torque then horsepower.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 151
Likes: 1
From: Australia
300E Turbo
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 151
Likes: 1
From: Australia
300E Turbo
Well, after discussing back & forth with shop today, finally looked over the DIY MS site. Wow is all I can say 
The only thing it doesn't list is a VR sensor needed to read the trigger wheel but everything else is there. Man oh man!
For members that like the MS stuff, you can now get the MS III with MS3X v3.57 expansion card fully assembled for direct fire sequential capabilities & cylinder by cylinder fuel/ignition control? Some may have but I am blown away because this means the workshop can use it instead of the expensive stand alone's such as Microtech spark only ($980AUS) or the top notch Haltech Platinum Sport 2000 stand alone, like $2k without harness Fark off 
I need to exhaust why I can't simply go wasted spark & use the Ford EDIS-6 system for example. It's due to it's incompatibility issues my workshop has experienced with LPG in the past. He's won't use it again.
Haltech tried to convince him to go with the platinum ECU because they had great success with a Beema you see? Hmmmm. Good salesmanship.
So, this is why I took the reigns & did some searching & think I won out ey? When doing custom work on these cars, you have to source **** yourself man
The only thing it doesn't list is a VR sensor needed to read the trigger wheel but everything else is there. Man oh man! For members that like the MS stuff, you can now get the MS III with MS3X v3.57 expansion card fully assembled for direct fire sequential capabilities & cylinder by cylinder fuel/ignition control? Some may have but I am blown away because this means the workshop can use it instead of the expensive stand alone's such as Microtech spark only ($980AUS) or the top notch Haltech Platinum Sport 2000 stand alone, like $2k without harness
Fark off I need to exhaust why I can't simply go wasted spark & use the Ford EDIS-6 system for example. It's due to it's incompatibility issues my workshop has experienced with LPG in the past. He's won't use it again.
Haltech tried to convince him to go with the platinum ECU because they had great success with a Beema you see? Hmmmm. Good salesmanship.
So, this is why I took the reigns & did some searching & think I won out ey? When doing custom work on these cars, you have to source **** yourself man
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 151
Likes: 1
From: Australia
300E Turbo
Here's where it gets sticky 
I just spoke with the engineer responsible for signing his life away on the VASS cert needed for VicRoads to register car. In other words, the guy who, along with myself, bares full responsibility for the build passing all present EPA guidelines & foreseeable hassles by the pigs up ahead. Anyone wishing to boost a vehicle mode that has no factory turbo option must adhere by the ADR testing. Only if a turbo kit is certified to be ADR compliant, by the manufacturer, is it except for the test!
The no-nonsense approach to this is to do the mods to my hearts content then show up n@ VIPAC for it's ADR 2700 (pre-88) test @ $1600 (up 100 since last enquired few months back haha....) If it passes the stringent testing over 2 days, fine! Fails? back to shop, more tuning etc then, back to VIPAC to shell out another another $1600 each time till it passes.
NOTE: If it had been a pre-unleaded (pre 86') it would be except from the ADR emissions testing
Meanwhile, engineer will be contacting VicRoads, within next few days haha, to discuss if I can get away with $600 IM600 test, used for testing existing modified cars. Hmmmmm, doubt this will help & it will not prevent EPA finding something in the future if a test is called for by the fuzz!
Just about ready to throw the towel in with boosting
I just spoke with the engineer responsible for signing his life away on the VASS cert needed for VicRoads to register car. In other words, the guy who, along with myself, bares full responsibility for the build passing all present EPA guidelines & foreseeable hassles by the pigs up ahead. Anyone wishing to boost a vehicle mode that has no factory turbo option must adhere by the ADR testing. Only if a turbo kit is certified to be ADR compliant, by the manufacturer, is it except for the test!
The no-nonsense approach to this is to do the mods to my hearts content then show up n@ VIPAC for it's ADR 2700 (pre-88) test @ $1600 (up 100 since last enquired few months back haha....) If it passes the stringent testing over 2 days, fine! Fails? back to shop, more tuning etc then, back to VIPAC to shell out another another $1600 each time till it passes.
NOTE: If it had been a pre-unleaded (pre 86') it would be except from the ADR emissions testing
Meanwhile, engineer will be contacting VicRoads, within next few days haha, to discuss if I can get away with $600 IM600 test, used for testing existing modified cars. Hmmmmm, doubt this will help & it will not prevent EPA finding something in the future if a test is called for by the fuzz!
Just about ready to throw the towel in with boosting
Last edited by BAD300; Jul 3, 2011 at 08:25 PM.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 151
Likes: 1
From: Australia
300E Turbo
Towel thrown in!
I am not prepared to pay over $2k to regulatory personnel for them to deem my car "legal" concerning emissions whilst poor architecture accounts for 40% of the world's greenhouse gases & cow farts around 25%. So, instead of penalising motorists for the little they contribute in order to get to their employment & enjoy a little hp, let them ADR schedule fauna & tax all meat-eaters Farkheads!
Can a mod or admin pls close this thread. If/when I do boost the car in the future, I will start a new thread & keep it short
Thanks to all who inputted valuable info & I'm sure folk got something outta reading posts on this thread. At the very least it informed Aussie "tuners" the facts concerning the ADR requirements that govern the EPA body & tie the hands of Engineers & tuners alike. Remember, although most modified cars are illegal in many aspects of build, if you do get searched/defected, you will face the EPA scrutiny & fines are staggering! Good luck
Tim!
I am not prepared to pay over $2k to regulatory personnel for them to deem my car "legal" concerning emissions whilst poor architecture accounts for 40% of the world's greenhouse gases & cow farts around 25%. So, instead of penalising motorists for the little they contribute in order to get to their employment & enjoy a little hp, let them ADR schedule fauna & tax all meat-eaters
Farkheads! Can a mod or admin pls close this thread. If/when I do boost the car in the future, I will start a new thread & keep it short
Thanks to all who inputted valuable info & I'm sure folk got something outta reading posts on this thread. At the very least it informed Aussie "tuners" the facts concerning the ADR requirements that govern the EPA body & tie the hands of Engineers & tuners alike. Remember, although most modified cars are illegal in many aspects of build, if you do get searched/defected, you will face the EPA scrutiny & fines are staggering! Good luck
Tim!
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 151
Likes: 1
From: Australia
300E Turbo
MOVING RIGHT ALONG!!!!!
After lamenting & stressed to the eyeballs over the last week, today after persisting with engineers over the phone I found one willing to work with me 
As long as it remains dedicated LPG I can virtually do what I like! He just wants the intake manifold stock other than the mixer set up. 10mm clearances all around whole car. Upgraded brakes (already have the set I purchased). Suspension not too modified. Wella. He sees the car when it's finished & writes the VASS cert
Needless to say I phoned workshop immediately & told him. Also, will be 'bottom mounting' turbo on manifold. Will be most prolly using a Haltech aftermarket ECU so I can run direct fire coil packs to protect against detonation. I know the weak links of the stock engine are the rings/landings & HG.
Also, I am looking @ below mounting the turbo on manifold now & keeping the .63 A/R rear so, heaven help me in the wet
As long as it remains dedicated LPG I can virtually do what I like! He just wants the intake manifold stock other than the mixer set up. 10mm clearances all around whole car. Upgraded brakes (already have the set I purchased). Suspension not too modified. Wella. He sees the car when it's finished & writes the VASS cert
Needless to say I phoned workshop immediately & told him. Also, will be 'bottom mounting' turbo on manifold. Will be most prolly using a Haltech aftermarket ECU so I can run direct fire coil packs to protect against detonation. I know the weak links of the stock engine are the rings/landings & HG.
Also, I am looking @ below mounting the turbo on manifold now & keeping the .63 A/R rear so, heaven help me in the wet
Last edited by BAD300; Jul 20, 2011 at 10:06 PM.
