jposhea3

Just saw this on Edmund's, and my salesman mentioned it in a call today. There's now 2k in the trunk of new 2007 E550 RWD models.

-james
on the boat, due to Baltimore 18 nov...

edspider

Wow, that was fast! Incidently it also includes E350 RWD. And I see they're give $5,000 if you find any 06 you like on the lot.

Alan Smithee

People talk about DCX degrading the MB brand and destroying resale with parts sharing with Chrysler...but this adoption of their sales/marketing strategy is what will be the downfall. Rebates and incentives on 2006s, of course that makes sense...but on 2007 models? Officially we're only a month or so into the 2007 model year, and two months away from the calendar year! As the US automakers can attest to, once the consumers see rebates/incentives on regular basis, it is nearly impossible to reverse the trend, even on high-end models, and destroys resale values.

Barry45RPM

Its a combination of trying to raise the number of units sold in 2006, and people not running to buy cars at sticker right now.

Alan Smithee

I understand why...just pointing out that in the race to beat BMW and Lexus in sales, the brand will ultimately be compromised with incentives and rebates. Seems to me that they're better off taking 2nd or 3rd place until the next C-class is introduced (typically the volume leader, but overdue for a model change and therefore clearly out-classed by the competition), rather than trying to push huge volumes of the E-class out the door. But there's probably a board of directors that doesn't see it that way.

konigstiger

The Board answers to the stock holders therefore more so the stock holders don’t see it your way.

LNL

Per my dealer, the "fine print" says it's available only on leases for cap reductions, and not for outright purchases.

Lou

Alan Smithee

But I am a DCX stockholder!

jposhea3

Could be, though the Edmund's link says 'Restrictions: none"

konigstiger

Marvelous, are you an Institutional Investor? …Might I suggest submitting your grievance to Rolf Bassermann.

JWS3

From what I can see the E really takes it up the tailpipe on depreciation. Cars that went for 65 only 2- 2 1/2 yrs ago are not at 40 "ish". This is precisely why I am not getting an E550 just yet. Given the history, lack of standard equipment (HIDs are an EXTRA?? ) and stupid high pricing even invoice is high, at least to me. As a friend/contact at the dealer told me: "come back in the spring-fall and things will be much better" I like the E, but 68K is just stupid and to me not worth it.

Fastbuck

Shouldn't all DCX investors be in an institution?

Barry45RPM

Much of the high purchase price goes to the philosphy they have that they overbuild the cars to very high structural standards. These cars are built to these standards and then a price is set based on what it cost to do so, rather than the manufacturer saying the car MUST sell for $ 58,000, and then building the car so that is meets the dollar criteria. These cars are designed to last (thats the philosophy, anyway), which will probably change because the current mentality is to lease a car for 39 months & then move on to another one, so building a car to last is sort of out of date. American consumers want very high content and a 4 year lifespan now.

When Mercedes does change their philosophy & build a loaded car at a competitive (to Lexus) price people will probably complain that "its a shame... this isn't a Benz... its built like a Toyota... I can remember when a Benz was built like a tank and ran forever..."

Which do you want? We cant have both. Its not possible.

The bigtime deprieciation right now is caused by the 2003 to present electronic/reliability issues. The used car buyer has heard about this (its in all the papers) and is staying away from the E. The market is saturated with traded in/off lease Es that the public is not clamoring for. That will fix itself 39 months after MB has REALLY cured all the ills of the current E. Buyers of '06s & '07s are saying that MB has done that... so when all these cars are turned in and have been reliable for the last 39 months, demand and the used car value will be there.

But, the 2 different philosophies:
1: Built to Last,
2: Only want it for 39 Months... still don't mesh.

So how should the build them? They only know one way.

LNL

Edmund's is incorrect. I checked with another dealer in town, and it is in fact lease only.

Lou

JWS3

models were build this way. Anything built in the last 10 + years has not followed this philosophy for a variety of reasons, including market pressure (Lexus), the public's unwillingness to buy/inability to afford many 100K cars and, most of all, the ridiculous benefits, pay and more enjoyed by German labor unions.

I don't really buy the supposedly superior engineering/reliability of German cars anymore. Lexus is likely to be more durable and more reliable over the long haul, at least for now. Publications like Consumers has been rating even the older Japanese cars are more reliable on average than their German contemporary counterparts. What Lexus hasn't done, however, is meet the subjective "feel" of an MB or BMW, nor does it have the heritage--yet. If I were an executive in Munich or Stuttgart I'd be very, very worried, awaiting the day when Lexus, etc finally gets the "feel" thing down and can meet the Germans as an equal.
Don't get me wrong- I still perfer German cars, but decline to be a guinea pig. MB models over the past several years have been creamed w/ respect to depreciation, which is why there will be no E550 for me till I can get it at or very close to invoice. Just not worth it otherwise, at least to me. No doubt there are many others here who can just brush off and financially absorb depreciation akin to a falling anvil, but I can't.

Barry45RPM

[QUOTE=JWS3;1825547]
...I don't really buy the supposedly superior engineering/reliability of German cars anymore...QUOTE]

So far, the superior engineering/reliability aspect of the Germans has been in the basic "Automobile" portions of the car. Thats why the cars feel like "vaults". You can't fake that, or Lexus and all the competiters would. The German team who designed MB's 2003+ E Class Entertainment/Electronicly operated Safety items/Passenger convenience/internal electronic networking interfaces have been lofty, futuristic ideas, whose engineering has been, to put it nicely, pure crap, amateurish, clumsy and most definitely unreliable. (I wouldnt want to be placed in an MB designed 2 Man Submarine for a cruise.)

When they hire a Japanese consulting firm to design the electronics with them, the Brand will be an unbeatable 21st Century car.

JWS3

over the past few years has not fully indicated this. I tend to think MB/BMW got caught up in exactly what you mentioned--building cars for a price point rather than let the engineering determine the price. Much of the blame for this lies with the pampered and over indulged German labor unions.
Still-- nothing else "feels" like a German car, which is why I keep coming back. I see an E550 as a very good possibility. Just need to hang back for a bit, that's all.
You've got great taste, btw- Pewter/tan is my favorite combo and what I'll likely go for!

Barry45RPM

There is nothing like the drive of my car that I have experienced in any other car. I hope the new ones are better. I hear from the guys here that they think they are.

JWS3

what MB once was and should be again. Resting on past accomplishments while the competition slaps you silly does not a good business plan make.

Alan Smithee

Fortunately, it's not just Americans that drive MB R&D. Germans don't use these cars like we do; they are the backbone of taxi fleets, and they are not leased short-term. Plus, MB banks on the perceived longetivity of the brand for their Starmark program in lieu of selling less expensive A- and B-class cars (as well as de-contented C- and E-class cars) in this country to those that can't afford new models. I don't see MBs becoming disposable just yet.

NCE500

I just checked, and it is limited to lease cap cost.

Time is very much on our side though. I was in for my annual "C" service 2 weeks ago, and my local dealer had many 07 E's in stock. I was busy that day, and did not have time to ask the sales guys on pricing.

For what it's worth, my (late build) 05 has been 100% reliable to date, and I do think the reliability problems are sorted out, as the 06 and 07 folks are reporting. This should help both demand and resale prices over the longer term.

That being said, when the deals do get good, I will pull the trigger on an E550 Sport, but not until prices are comparable to what I got my 05 for. Based on my perception of the supply/demand equation, I think that is another 4 - 6 months away. Time will tell.

As an individual DCX stockholder, I hope that someone is listening and will do what is needed to maintain demand. Audi, Lexus, Infiniti etc. also discount, it is the norm in today's car business.

Barry45RPM

I hope you're right. I'd really like to see the resale value climb back up again. Did you know a Lexus RX330 is worth 60% of its original value after 3 years? Surely a quality designed & built MB should be up there too.

Alan Smithee

I'm guessing that number is a lease rate residual value? If so, it's not a true indication of value, rather an artificial number to bring monthly lease payments down and keep the RX's #1 ranking in luxury SUV sales. Just another type of incentive, albeit one that's less obvious than DCX's 'trunk money'.

Kar don

I doubt it is a lease residual value number as the RX330 is no longer in production. The first ones came out as an 04 model in 2003... which was 3 years ago.

Alan Smithee

No reason why he can't be using a residual value number for a 2004 RX330.

Regardless, looking at book values and cars for sale on AutoTrader.com, both the RX and E-class appear to be retaining between 50-60% of their original MSRP. Does the RX hold its value better? Perhaps, but as I mentioned it's also the sales leader in the hottest market segment. Does that make it a better vehicle than the E-class? I certainly don't think so...it's an ugly Camry wagon with some overly treated leather and fake wood; the ultimate driving appliance to the majority of buyers.