nonisossose

Hi everyone.

My transmission is shifting hard into 2nd and 3rd gear and tends to jump up and down in rpms when driving at lower speeds, BUT ONLY WHEN TRANNY IS NOT AT WORKING TEMP.
I've been on here before and adressed the problem without any luck.
I've replaced the electric plug and also flushed the tranny and replaced the oil with an Valvoline transmission oil that fulfills mercedes requirements.

VIN: WDB2112231A751156
Tranny from what i could understand: 722.640 05 890007 (can someone verify that?)
Engine: OM 648.961 l6 3.2litres
Car: Mercedes E-class 280 cdi 2005 (s211) stationwagon

EDIT: i did do a quicklearn to make it adapt to my driving, the ones where you turn of all electronics and turn key on (2nd click) and keep the accelerator down for was it 2 minutes or something?

Now im thinking about replace my tranny with an better used one.
But since theres like thousands of different 722.6** trannys im not sure which ones that are interchangable with the on i've got.

Any help is useful for me.

Thanks
//dan

nonisossose

now i have found a gearbox 800miles away from me.
but the seller doesnt quiet now what box it is. he sent me some pictures of it and i can see that in the cast it says:
R210 271 08 01
and on another picture i can see: R140 271 26 01.
but i have no idea whatever that means.
he told me it is 5speed with tiptronic and its been in a mercedes e320 gasoline from 2001

but it still leads me nowhere unfortuenatley..

cmriv

I'd put a good ole' conductor plate in that thing first before swapping a used trans in it. My personal opinion though.

nonisossose

the thing is i get to hear all kinds of different opinions about conductor plates, valve bodies, sensors etc etc..

so i dont know where to start..

sincerely

nonisossose

also i do have a hard time thinking im the Only one ever to have this problem, besides the fact that my gear box only have this problem when it's not in operating temperature. thats wierd i believe..

sincerely

Tschuss_Bill

Dan-

My car had about 100k miles on it. Tranny acted up when cold. Seemed like hard shifting. It actually was hard lockup in the torque converter lockup mechanism. It's a clutch pack within the torque converter. It engages to eliminate the slushy sensation of older automatics. Harsh lock up and sometimes even late disengagement of the lockup (sounds like groaning in first gear as you roll to a stop) can be caused by delayed hydraulic switching in the valve body or weird things in the TC itself. That can be fixed with someone that is knowledgeable with such matters. Sonnax makes the retrofit kits. This is not DIY in my opinion, machining etc is involved.

Here is a test that I came up with to prove to me (and the Mercedes shop foreman) that it was the TC lockup mechanism. When cold, start the car put it in first gear. Drive slowly, stay in first. Do you feel the hard 'shift'? If so, note it's still in first gear. That harshness is the TC lockup mechanism clamping too fast.

If it has been doing this harsh thing for too long the plates in the torque converter will wear (or have worn) quickly, meaning you may want to have the torque converter rebuilt. When the valve body is broken down there is a screen that if clogged is a warning sign that the clutch plates have worn down. Again this should be done with Sonnax parts since there are some updates that help with the aforementioned weird things. There are some great articles on the Sonnax site. They are also helpful in finding folks in your area that are knowledgeable. I don't work for Sonnax.

Your gearbox could be fine. For me it was valvebody rebuild and rebuilt TC. All told about $1,900. Worth it though. These are not unusual problems with the 722.6. Any used 722.6 could present the same issues especially if ~80K or miles are on it.

I spent a lot of time researching this one, german websites etc (weil ich kann Deutsch auch). The dealer had it for a week and said I needed a VB, TC and gearbox. When I asked for unofficial advice, that was "check the valve circuits for TCC, check the screens, if clogged rebuild the TC." That ended up being the right advice. MB does not do that work, so I went the indy tranny shop route.

If you wanted to try some DIY things first, you could replace conductor plate and test the solenoids. Alt 2 would be to have the VB rebuilt and see how it goes. In my opinion, replacing the gear box is not the next option.

Good luck, please post your results.

cmriv

You have a .6 trans though, .6 trans's usually only have conductor plate problems, I've replaced only a handful of valve bodies in a .6 trans. Now if you have a .9 trans then yes, there would be question whether its a plate or body that needs replacing. But with you having a .6 trans it leads me to believe you have a conductor plate issue not valve body. Lucky for you though if you have a jack, jack stands and some basic tools you can do a conductor plate repair yourself. T30 socket, 7mm socket to removed the trans connector, and once you drop the pan and swap conductor plates the only tool you'll need is a T30 socket if i'm not mistaken. Also .6 trans conductor plates are plug and play, no programming need. And you can fill your trans from the engine bay which is also perfect.

cmriv

Also have you checked your fluid level? Fluids expand when they heat up which may be the cause for it only happening at cold temps, once that fluid gets warm and expands it meets the require threshold to shift properly. Check your fluid level first, you will need a dipstick for that, 7226 tranny dipstick.

nonisossose

Hey man!

You're absolutely on the right track, everything you describe here: "My car had about 100k miles on it. Tranny acted up when cold. Seemed like hard shifting. It actually was hard lockup in the torque converter lockup mechanism. It's a clutch pack within the torque converter. It engages to eliminate the slushy sensation of older automatics. Harsh lock up and sometimes even late disengagement of the lockup (sounds like groaning in first gear as you roll to a stop) can be caused by delayed hydraulic switching in the valve body or weird things in the TC itself. "

thats exactly what i experience when car/gear box is cold.

i have to try that first gear slow drive test.

it has been doing this for quite a while now, so most likely them plates in the TC (torque converter?) are worn out..

Further on im based in sweden meaning that sonnax or other A/T gear box people doesnt grow on trees. But i'll have to do some researching now that you explained exactly the symptoms i am dealing with.

Huge thanks mate!

sincerely

PelicanParts.com

Just another idea here... Have you checked the shift module? The shift selector module is an electronic shift or transmission range switch. It is monitored by the transmission control module, reporting the current gear, gear change requests and park or neutral. Due to location and frequency of use, this selector module fails over time. When it fails it can cause the transmission to miss shifts, remain in neutral or prevent the vehicle from starting (when park or neutral isn't seen). There are many fault codes associated with the module when it fails, so be sure to use a Mercedes-Benz scan tool to query the control module. Can read more about it here. Good luck.

-Luccia

buddysharp

cmriv, I have a 04 S55 with 120K. Similar symptoms but specifically, the cold shift results in a neck-snapping repeated lurching until I back off and then re-accelerate. Odd thing is no codes. Changed fluid 3X's, changed mount, did glycol test as fluid was suspect and clearly aftermarket. No leakage at conductor plate adaptor plug. No chunks in pan, fairly thick layer of clutch material. Given your experience, is there any way to diagnose the plate before remove\replace? I'm several hundred dollars in after fluids\parts and have outlived my welcome at my friend's shop.

Thanks in advance!

Tschuss_Bill

The conductor plate is a couple hundred dollars and labor would be (guessing) a couple of hours.

Fairly thick clutch material points to the torque converter. That's where the TC lockup mechanism is.

Please update with your findings.

buddysharp

Hi Bill, thanks. Yes the plate is $181 at autohausaz.com and a few beers with my friend to use his lift, it takes a couple of hours. Just trying to be a bit more sure before throwing away another hundred bucks of fluid and a 200 part.

Tschuss_Bill

The only other thing you could do to be 'more sure' would be to take the VB to competent shop to have it tested, valve tolerances etc.

buddysharp

Sorry if I'm being a nut, Bill. I have a strange effect on my MB's; my issues are never simple, here's a code in Star, replace this. My E320 wagon has killed me with a nagging problem that just won't go away. This S55 tranny issue is odd; no one at the independent shop has ever seen one do this and these guys are all former MB Guild Technicians. BTW. several folks have suggested the "lock up solenoid". Not a part I'm familiar with but suspecting that it's located in the torque convertor perhaps? Seems that if I'm going to have to go that far and remove the transmission, I may as well have it rebuilt.

Tschuss_Bill

The TC lock circuit has several components. In the valve body there are two valves and one solenoid. Then there is the clutch pack in the TC that provides the lockup function. The lockup is activated by hydraulic pressure being turned on, the solenoid triggers the hydraulic valve. Several things can cause harsh lockup. The solenoid could be defective. The TCC valve could have clearance wear that is no longer in tolerance. That is the valve doesn't function as designed. There are two valves one is called the TC lockup clutch regulator valve and the other is the TC damper valve. Sonnax describes the latter as a cause of harsh lockup. The kit is 68942-23k. There is no machining required for this one, but I elected to have this work by someone else.

Defective solenoid? Could be the culprit it's located on the VB. easy to test (ohmmeter) not expensive
Defective conductor plate? Should be replaced regardless when the VB is removed.
Defective control module? Could be due to excessive tranny fluid leaking through the conductor. Would there be codes?
Defective valve function (due to valve wear)? Can be bench tested with VB removed from tranny
Defective lock up clutch due to wear? Lots of clutch material clogging in the VB screens would point to issues in the TC.

Good luck.

cmriv

drain fluid, drop pan, remove valve body, replace conductor plate, re-install valve body, re-install pan, filer, gasket, crushwasher, fill from top, check fluid level. drive.

ps2cho

I believe you must have the star system remove the codes before the new conductor plate can work back to new.

cmriv

Negative. 722.6 conductor plates are plug and play. 722.9 is a completely different story however.

buddysharp

Conductor plate has arrived as has the lock up solenoid. Using a friends garage later this week on Thursday and will take pics of installation and then the amazingly smooth shifting the following morning when all is well! More to come

cstoll

I am having a very similar issue on my 2008 S600 that you describe Bill

Transmission: 72264907344739

2008 S600 W221 101k miles 5G-Mechtronic. Tranny acts up when cold. Seems like hard shifting around 1st and 2nd until it gets to 83-85C. I tried to explain to the indie shop that it isn't happening at the shift by using the paddle shifters. In first there is some sort of slip or jerk. At 83-85C though this completely goes away.

I just got it and that guy must have been laughing as I drove off. The inspection and test drive were when it was warm....

No codes, no check engine light.

What Tranny do I have? would it be a 7226.49?

After going thru this thread I am thinking the following:

1. Drop the pan.
2. Replace Conductor Plate (https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mer...Lw_wcB#reviews)
3. Do I need to clear TCM codes?

If that doesn't solve it then I would look into the torque converter replacement. Is this something that requires the Star system or could I handle it you think?

Thank you.

Tschuss_Bill

Do those things. Also replace the conductor seal. I would not try to solve this problem without replacing (at least) the TCC solenoid. I had done the plate, VB rebuild with sonnax updates, no new solenoids "because those rarely fail", new torque converter.

Those things improved the condition, but did not completely solve it. Years later, I replaced all the solenoids. Problem totally solved.