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Hello everyone! I am thinking of replacing my stock cams with amg once. Do you notice difference in power/ torque in the lower rpm driving in the city. Does the car feel too sporty. I want to increase the power, but don't want to work like old muscle car jumping around. It's an S class and I want it to be smooth as baby's butt like it is now. Also after cams I want to the remap and if needed fuel pump, injectors. I have been told, that it's a heavy car and it will suffer on the start with the amg cams. The car will feel more aggressive. Do you have answers on these questions? Thanks in advance!
????? What S class do you have? 430? 55? We need more info. Also, as long as you have hood motor mounts your car will always be smooth. You car will always suffer from the start, it’s an NA and heavy car.
????? What S class do you have? 430? 55? We need more info. Also, as long as you have hood motor mounts your car will always be smooth. You car will always suffer from the start, it’s an NA and heavy car.
It's 2004 S500 5.0 M113 engine. I am asking these questions, because in w220 S55AMG there are no vibration or whatever. Car drives smooth and is powerful.
It's 2004 S500 5.0 M113 engine. I am asking these questions, because in w220 S55AMG there are no vibration or whatever. Car drives smooth and is powerful.
Yes there is no vibration in all Mercedes if the motor mounts are good. Yes 5.4 camshafts will add power. Not sure if it’s worth the money. I would swap a 5.4 into it.
Yes there is no vibration in all Mercedes if the motor mounts are good. Yes 5.4 camshafts will add power. Not sure if it’s worth the money. I would swap a 5.4 into it.
Cams will cost me around 300 US dollars. Definitely worth it for me. Do you have any idea how much power will add? I will do remap after the swap. Do I have to change fuel pump, injectors, valve springs? Or we will see if change is needed on the live data?
Cams will cost me around 300 US dollars. Definitely worth it for me. Do you have any idea how much power will add? I will do remap after the swap. Do I have to change fuel pump, injectors, valve springs? Or we will see if change is needed on the live data?
You might have to tune it. I would tune it anyway. Are you installing them yourself? Maybe 10 to 15whp. Stock I think they make around 250whp. I would tune it anyway if installing cams. Make sure you are getting NA 5.4 cams and not the supercharged cams.
You might have to tune it. I would tune it anyway. Are you installing them yourself? Maybe 10 to 15whp. Stock I think they make around 250whp. I would tune it anyway if installing cams. Make sure you are getting NA 5.4 cams and not the supercharged cams.
" Maybe 10 to 15whp. Stock I think they make around 250whp." I am not sure I understand that correctly. I am looking at supercharged cams. NA and supercharged looks the same from that guy's measurements. I will tune the ECU, but what about the TCU?
" Maybe 10 to 15whp. Stock I think they make around 250whp." I am not sure I understand that correctly. I am looking at supercharged cams. NA and supercharged looks the same from that guy's measurements. I will tune the ECU, but what about the TCU?
A dyno, reads horse power to the wheels “whp” cars lose 15 to 20% from the engine to the wheels. Don’t get a tcu tune, get a 150% valve body from sound German or southern hotrod.
" Maybe 10 to 15whp. Stock I think they make around 250whp." I am not sure I understand that correctly. I am looking at supercharged cams. NA and supercharged looks the same from that guy's measurements. I will tune the ECU, but what about the TCU?
Yup you'll be fine. No tune needed. You'll be fine.
Here are my cams thumping at idle. I have been swamped here at the shop with work so the Hammer has been backburner'd for a little while until the exhaust comes in and I get the OFGear wired up. Going with some Flowmaster Super 10's for that 5.0 HO sound. Potato, potato, potato! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcZt-TatdFw
I posted this in the SLK World and wanted to share here what I found.
After extensive searching, I believe I have FINALLY found the exact engine codes for our engines as well as its stock camshaft specs!
If anyone can confirm this, let us know. I think this is good info if you want to do a heads / cam upgrade and are wondering what the stock cam specs are.
Very interesting information, thanks!
Am I right that the M113.989 engine has cams that are more effective in the higher rpms, ergo less torque at low rpm? (Max at 4000rpm)
If I wanted low end torque, best engine would be the ML AMG version, 113.981 I think?
What I do not understand is, why thIs 981 version has 347 hp and max torque @2800 rpm, vs 360 hp and max torque at 4000 rpm for the 986, while cams, valves heads are the same according to EPC.
MOST REMARKABLE; according to STAR, the standard 5.0 , 306 hp engine, has different timing for lhd cam and rhd cam!
Something I can not conclude from the Cat Cam information though.
Can anyone shine a light on this?
Very interesting information, thanks!
Am I right that the M113.989 engine has cams that are more effective in the higher rpms, ergo less torque at low rpm? (Max at 4000rpm)
If I wanted low end torque, best engine would be the ML AMG version, 113.981 I think?
What I do not understand is, why thIs 981 version has 347 hp and max torque @2800 rpm, vs 360 hp and max torque at 4000 rpm for the 986, while cams, valves heads are the same according to EPC.
MOST REMARKABLE; according to STAR, the standard 5.0 , 306 hp engine, has different timing for lhd cam and rhd cam!
Something I can not conclude from the Cat Cam information though.
Can anyone shine a light on this?
What are you trying to achieve? Make e55 made 375wtq at 2500rpm, it makes over 365wtq got like 3500rpm.
I wouldn’t be two concerned about the rpm difference between the e55 and the ml55. In reality it’s a very small difference on a dyno.
I was planning on installing a set of cat cams, and Moscow headers but sold my car. I am guessing with the cams, and headers it was going to make 390 to 410whp, and 420tq
Well, I am planning to swap 5.0 for 5.5 N.A.
Since my r230 Is the 5 speed auto and I am a low rpm driver, I would like to choose the version that offers the highest torque at the lowest rpm.
I can buy a 113.989 engine from a crashed R171 55AMG, but this seemed to be the higher rpm version of the AMG55.
But indeed, I have no idea how relevant differences between 55s really are.
Catcams! They provide the grinds that belong in the underworld of MB performance upgrades. Please everyone do your research on camshaft LSA (lobe separation angle), reversion and it's effects on injected fuel systems. This crazy stuff really only works on carbureted engines which are essentially unheard of in the modern MB engines. I couldn't believe they offered such grinds as an option.
But.... they also grind the camshafts you need for the modern M113 as well. Maybe they will cut me some slack on my next purchase, likely M104 camshafts.
Last edited by bicylindrico; Dec 11, 2021 at 06:22 PM.
As you are an MB master tech, I’d love your opinion on a plan of mine
Start with W211 E500, do the Crossfire manual swap, then cams and maybe DIY head porting, then maybe move the whole shebang onto a 55 bottom end.
However, your adaptation of a Ford intake is very interesting! I like it with maybe a Holley Sniper TBI fuel system. This would really bring in the top end with a dual plane or even better, a single plane as it looks like you are planning to use.
As you are an MB master tech, I’d love your opinion on a plan of mine
Start with W211 E500, do the Crossfire manual swap, then cams and maybe DIY head porting, then maybe move the whole shebang onto a 55 bottom end.
However, your adaptation of a Ford intake is very interesting! I like it with maybe a Holley Sniper TBI fuel system. This would really bring in the top end with a dual plane or even better, a single plane as it looks like you are planning to use.
Thoughts?
MB is all I have done most of my whole adult life. 20+ years at 2 dealers and 8 years on my own with my own shop. Started with the dealer in 1991.
I drove a Crossfire with an AMG 55 swap and a 716 manual once. I personally hated the transmission and the clutch. It was great experience because the trans was a consideration of mine and it was nice to drive the car as it helped make the final decision that I didn't want a manual. The clutch was way too heavy and this made it very difficult to drive. The shifter was spongy and slow. I recall seeing W211 part numbers on shifter parts. Obviously it could have been improved but at what cost.
My family background is old domestic muscle cars and hotrodding. The philosophy I remember with cylinder heads is whatever the head will flow in CFM, multiply by two and they will provide in horsepower. This is assuming all the other engine components are optimal. Everything I have come across as quoted accurate flow numbers for these heads is somewhere around 250-275 CFM intake at .500" lift and 185 CFM on the exhaust. This leads me to believe that if your engine isn't making at least 500HP naturally aspirated then you are wasting your time trying to get the heads to flow more air. The power lies elsewhere. My research has many small block 5.0 liter Ford 302's with similar flow numbers on their ported heads with our exhaust doing even better and these engines rev much higher and make more power.
I honestly think a dual plane intake would work better with all the other variables I have put together but of course I want to go big as the car rarely gets driven. I am hoping this platform will give me options with other intakes that share the same platform so it's not an 'all-in' project with the high-rise one I have chosen.
Last edited by bicylindrico; Dec 11, 2021 at 06:54 PM.
Well, I am planning to swap 5.0 for 5.5 N.A.
Since my r230 Is the 5 speed auto and I am a low rpm driver, I would like to choose the version that offers the highest torque at the lowest rpm.
I can buy a 113.989 engine from a crashed R171 55AMG, but this seemed to be the higher rpm version of the AMG55.
But indeed, I have no idea how relevant differences between 55s really are.
It's the cylinder's stroke and the improvements to the camshaft profiles. This equates to roughly 50HP. There are other improvements like the strength of components internally but the HP is really what you would be buying. The later R171 engine I believe has a little more compression and that is always good. 10.5 vs 11.0. (Someone please correct me if I am off.)
Maybe install the 55 camshafts for a few hundred dollars instead of a several thousand dollar swap for the whole engine? It would likely get you half way there in HP.
Nice! I have 55 N/A Cams in my CLS 500 and it was very good to me. The car is much sportier and feels like a real V8 engine. The engine is much better reving, best mod ever to me.
Did you have to remove the timing cover to do this? I have played with timing and managed to adjust a cam without taking the timing cover off.
Hello Friends. Have a quest, hope you''ll help me. I am going to upgrade Factory Cams on my E430. Now i am running: A1130503401 / A1130503501.
Was going to install Cams from N/A E55 - A1130507901 / A1130508001, Suddenly have a very good offer about Cams from SLK55 AMG - A113 050 89 01 / A113 050 90 01 and also from W202 C43 AMG - A1130504001 / A1130504101
My question is following which setup is better for 113.940 4.3 engine - SLK55 CAMS vs W202 C43 AMG Cams? Which one do you recommend and also are they direct bolt on mode? Or i have to do any further modifications?
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