CE750

Ok, I'm "Thinking" about a trade in on my 2005 E320 CDI.. I'm not keen on the V6 diesel so if I did it, it would be the 550... my first impressions of the new W212 were that there are some nice things, and technological advancements, chassis etc.. but over all the styling and materials, etc.. were less Mercedes that I am used to. As it was, the W211 was a lot less "Mercedes" than the W210 and I had a hard time going into it, but this car is a stretch ... Seems a bit plasticy and the styling a bit "Caddilac"... am I out of line? or do you agree?

I'm torn... the part of me that want's a new car, and the part of me that seems to like his older one more..

Suggestions, thoughts?

thanks

Green E-300 DT

I for one cannot get over the fact of how you 'hate' or at best 'dislike' the newer V6 3.0L diesel powerplant.
Why if you don't mind if you have the time to explain?

I also cannot understand how you can even consider going from a diesel to a gasser!

But that's just me, and it's really none of my business.

Good luck with your decision.

CE750

I'm just a huge fan of the old school iron block I6 that MB had to abandon largely due to the need to make a smaller V6 that can fit into the SUV's in such high demand by the American consumer.. I think if you look at all other diesel engines made in the world, whether to power a small generator or supertanker or container ship, you'll see cast iron is the choice material, and that's largely due to the much higher compression and pressures in a diesel. I'm not saying I plan to hold my car for 250,000 miles, but if I had to I'd rather have the I6... it's just my partially informed opinion and by no means a statement of fact.

With that said, I was torn as to whether to buy the E500 or E320 when I bought this one, so it was always on my mind... the amazing pep is what sold me on the CDI, not the 37 MPG!

Anyway, I test drive one tomorrow.... we'll see if I like it better after that.

Green E-300 DT

Wish I could type as fast as you do!

I'm sorta 'in the market' soon', and I have read everything I can get my
hands on regarding the 3.2L I6 vs the 3.0L V6, and I cannot find any
real facts to discourage me from going with MBZs latest offering.

More torque, perhaps than yours even with your tune?

The taller gearing with the seven speed which has an almost ten percent higher top gear.

Saw the W-212 E-350D at the greater Los Angeles Auto Show Friday, and you guessed it,
they done and gone the runflat route because they needed the spare space for the
Bluetec Fluid, so a W-212 would be out for me as is the 335d for the same reason.
Smply do not like the idea of runflats!

Anyhow, thanks for the prompt reply, and good luck with your choice.

CE750

I love my Michelin Runflats on my X5.. and they once came in quite handy for my wife.. safety is first, over cost and comfort! Don't worry bout them, if you like the new W212, get it.. I'm still torn. Take care

emilner

I for one have not found many things that are as good on my new 212 as with my old 211. The 211 was a near perfect car, the 212 is far from it. If you check some of my posts mainly under this thread you will get my feelings:

https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...t-purpose.html

aeggroup

I've got my car only 2 weeks and it's about 900 miles on the dash, but I like almost everything they did with this new model. 4Matic system is very big improvement compared to old one....the car drives more like S class than E, it has more room inside and more features than previous model.
Design of the car is controversial...especially rear...but you get used to it and even start to like it ) I like old stereo system better than new...
Everything else - only better than old. Again...it's only 2 weeks and I have no idea how reliable this car will be, but my previous 2 MB's gave me lots of problems and I know the road to my dealer very well. It does not stop me to have another MB b/c no other car looks so fresh and handles as good as this one.
Good luck.

CE750

thanks for the info fells.... yeah, it does seem to be more roomy and drove nicely... I just can't get over the interior design... it's so "un-Mercedes" to me and there is far too much hard plastic. Like I said, I had a hard enough time swallowing the W211 changes.. Maybe I am just nostalgic to the old Teutonic designs from Stuttgart!

K-A

I'm in the same boat as you in regards to the "un-Mercedes" like feel in areas, at least compared to what we're used to. The interior of the 212 is one of my worst favorite areas of it, lots of hard and seemingly "cheap" materials and plastic surfaces, albeit they do feel tough and durable, just not too refined. The whole door areas and trim for example are very industrial and kind of hard/cheap-ish feeling. I can go on about the interior materials. M-B knocked a good $5K off this car, so that had to come from somewhere....

I don't like the exterior too and agree about the Caddy influence, but hey, to each their own.

There are in fact many engineering advancements, and the car will drive like your 211, just a bit better in every way, best way to tell HOW much better you think it drives is by Test Driving one. Some think it's a big improvement in driving, and there are also some people, and even Mag Articles that state the driving doesn't feel significantly different or noticeably improved at all, which is a good thing as the 211 is and follows a winning formula. I pay attention well, so it felt familiar to me, just like I was driving mine, but I could notice the underlying confidence the more precise steering and solidified structural integrity. The cars handling DOES *feel* a bit better and more confident than the 211's, but all performance numbers, including slalom, skidpad, braking, etc. are identical, so I think the added chassis solidity just gives you that extra precise and confident feel, however doesn't really translate to performance numbers. I like the heavier steering of my pre-F.L W211, and have heard people complain that the new 212 is a bit over-boosted, and to fickle at high speeds, I haven't gotten one up to high enough speeds to say personally.

All in all, since you seem to judge interior design and quality and even the exterior similarly to me, it'll come down to which has more pluses that speak to you, I'd say give one a nice Test Drive and you'll see where your heart and mind will take you.

As well, the E-Class isn't the only player in the game anymore, lots of cars are catching and have caught up, I'd say look at some other brands, Jags XF, the '11 5-Series, etc.

K-A

Ahh, just noticed you have driven it. I'd say if it hasn't really grabbed you, then maybe let it simmer for a while. We naturally like to get something shiny and new, so we might fool ourselves into thinking that it's the right choice to spend the extra $$ or whatever, but you want to make sure your true being really *likes* the car. I'd wait a little while and see how you start to feel about the car. You can also get a Used 221 S-Class now for the price of a new 212. Won't have as much Warranty and technical goodies, but although the design is again subjective, you'll know right away if you want it over your car or not, just a different animal (namely size wise) altogether.

aeggroup

I don't agree with you about interior.....in fact..interior is way better and luxurious than W211...old model interior not even close as luxurious as new one. But...hmm..who am I....K-A knows better...I have this car only for 2 weeks, but he TEST DROVE IT ))


LOL ..

K-A

Don't need to live with it to know which uses better materials and which I find to be more refined.

I can name plenty of areas where the new one has hard and overly plastic materials, where the 211 used a more quality and what to me is more "luxurious" fare. But we all have our opinions on what is quality. I can name areas where the 211's is not as good as other cars, etc. When people let decontenting slide, car manufacturers get away with it and models get less attention to detail, like what has happened with M-B, and most others.

W212 E63 gets the same cheap and rough headliner and A-Pillar liner as the E350 (which is the same found in the W204), which not only is a downgrade from the much nicer and classier material found in the pre F.L W211, but way downgraded from the Suede in the W211 AMG's. Again, most people don't pay attention to these things, so they can get away with it.

ipp

Then opt for suede, which is standard or at least an option for the rest of the world. MB can't be responsible for MBUSA trying to sell cheaper cars to their customers. It's not their only market.

K-A

Yeah I'm obviously speaking of MB-USA cars.

I can go on, same cheap plastic dash material found on the dash of the 204, tons of hard plastic everywhere (especially down under the center radio area), door arm rests are hard and non-luxurious (211's is more plush to rest your arm on), whole door area is just hard, not too fancy looking either, especially the whole window control area, the big slab of wood is probably what fools most people, seats are ALL M-B Tex now if you don't have leather, no real Leather inserts like on the pre-F.L 211's, A/C vents feel cheap and flimsy (the silver ones) A-Pillar material is a wool sort of classy material on the 211, hard sandpaper fare on the 212 (again, a cost saving carry-over from the 204), door weather stripping is hard plastic, and soft carpet on the 211 (this attention to detail used to be what M-B was all about to me), bottom of doors are all plastic, which are a thin class carpet in the 211, bottom-sides of center console (across from where your hip is) is all hard plastic, which is soft classy carpet on the 211. Again I can go on, I give credit where it's due, no way the material in the 212 is up to par with the 211. The steering wheel Nappa Leather on the 212 is much nicer to feel than the 211's, the seats actual cushioning is supposed to be more comfortable (not speaking of the material wrapping around it), and the 212's A/C unit is nicer and more quality feeling than the 211's as well, to be fare.

Rowrbazzle

"Not only is there no evidence of cost-cutting, but in terms of interior luxury, the E-Class actually moves closer to the flagship S-Class sedan." NY Times

But I'm sure the NY Times writer (and all the other writers who have expressed similar sentiments in their reviews) weren't pre-face lift 211 owners. Lucky for us, I know someone else was.

My grandfather recently sold his 211, which followed a pre-face lift 211 and before than a 210. He is on his second 221 S Class (one of the special edition breast cancer models), which follows a couple 220s. I can't say for sure what other specific models he's had, but for as long as I can remember he has driven a Mercedes. When I told him I was thinking about getting the new E he went and did a good test drive. His assessment was that it was better in pretty much every way than his 211 and he was jealous of how little I would be paying for such a great car in comparison to his S class.

The vast majority of reviews have been positive. USNews has a nice little aggregate of many major reviews. No guarantee that they any of them were 211 owners, though. Good luck in your decision-making process. Hope you get something you like.

CE750

I think there is a general downward trend by the Germans, MB, BMW and Audi in terms of "Americanizing" their cars... It's a reality of today's cost conscious world and I don't see how I can get around it on my budget. There was a time for sure, when the Merc was head and shoulders above the rest (maybe except the BMW).. but now it's sort of on par with the better offerings from the American and Japanese makers.. I'm not in a hurry to get rid of my CDI.. its' only got 28K on it and is in like new condition, but I've just got that 4-5 year itch I get.. and I want that new car smell.. I might just save longer and see if I can swing an S class.. or a BMW 7 series.. they still seem to have the heavier quality interiors.. I think it's a matter of personal preference in the end.. these are nice cars nevertheless, just not grabbing at me (yet).

aeggroup

BS.....
K-A will say it's worse......he knows better than NY Times and other guys )))



Anyway...he's funny and brings a lot of excitement on this forum ))

K-A

Rowerbazzle and aeggroup, if we can have an actual comparison and point out facts like I just did, this would be much smoother, getting all butt-hurt that our new cars can't in any way be decontented (especially considering an Editor said it!) just shows that I at least am looking at this with an open mind.

I can point out quite a few Articles that bad-mouth the 212 too .

BTW, USNEWS had the 211 as its top ranked Luxury Large Sedan during its whole run.

Your argument: Editors said it, it's new so it has to be better, 'cause M-B said so.

My argument: Pointing out the specific areas that I'm talking about to back up my claims.

Lol.

All in good fun.

K-A

Next thing is you guys are gonna claim that the W204 has a classier and more refined interior than the W203 F.L. Since anyone who knows anything will notice the W204 has the most crappy M-B Sedan interior, maybe ever?

So no, our precious M-B would neevver regress on interior refinement.

Rowrbazzle

Well, no, that's not my argument. The OP asked for opinions from 211 owners. You are a 211 owner who did a test drive. My grandfather is/was a 211 owner who did a test drive. His opinion is basically the opposite of yours. I don't see how that means I'm butt-hurt(?).

Likewise, noting that many reviewers disagree with your assessment hardly qualifies as being butt-hurt. It's just offering different opinions for the OP to reference. Considering how much time you spend harping on all the inferiorities of the 212, perhaps you're butt-hurt about people liking the 212 more than your car.

I suppose I could take your list of 212 grievances to my uncle's (who now owns the aforementioned 211), examine it, and attempt to refute them one at a time. But that would be stupid.

K-A

Only thing I'm butt-hurt about is the fact that I'm sitting on a hard floor right now typing this, as opposed to the soft couch right in front of me, don't know why.

Opinions vary, my point is I can point out many areas where the 212's interior is less elegant and inferior, you might disagree, but at least I'm doing my part to show no bias, i.e, may the "best" win.

I give credit where it's due.

Plenty of people like the 211 more than the 212 still, but again, not my concern, I'm an enthusiast, masses will always like newer better, and if enthusiasts don't like the new thing better, than there's usually something wrong with it in regards to what it's replacing.

About Editors, I think we all know they aren't the end all be all. There are great Reviews of the 212, and not so great. I can Link you to some that have it in LAST place in Mid-Size comparo's, that's horrible considering it's a brand new Benz. I can also point out Articles where the Editors point out that they don't think it lives up to the W211 in some areas.

K-A

Fact is the 211 and 212 are such vastly different cars, intended to evoke different feelings and emotions completely. I think if the 211 was still selling as a new car, no one would think the two were in any way wearing the same letter-badge, just two totally different cars. For example, I don't think the 212 makes the 211 look any more dated than the 221, 204, etc. would have when they came out. Looks-wise, it just happens to be a Benz at a similar size I would probably feel.

Interiors are the same story, two totally different interiors, I don't feel that one is an upgrade really, I feel the 212's was drawn from scratch, not evolved, so hence the argument of which I can try and point out is better, to me. But if you deny or just brush off some of the specific comparisons I made, it just shows you're being biased toward the car you drive, as no one in their right mind can "disagree" with the fact that I am pointing out areas where the 212 uses plastic/hard materials and the 211 didn't.

Rowrbazzle

Well get off the floor, fool! haha

I don't have a 211 at my disposal and am not a 211 owner, nor did I plan to do a comparo when I was testing different cars so I can hardly go step-by-step like you did. Hence, I provided assessments for the OP from what I had. I never purported them to be the be all and end all.

However, I can look at the designs of the cars inside and out and say that the 212 has a design that appeals to me more. If nothing else the COMAND screen placement is so much better in the 212. Did the 211 have the COMAND system with the center knob? I don't recall it, but I could be misremembering (heh).

The 211 strikes me as too feminine. It's not exclusive to the 211, though. I was looking at a CLS (which I find sleek, but not feminine) on the lot and the interior design was similar to the 211 (doors and front console) and it was just a turn off to me. Too curvy. Too wimpy. Same with the 211.

Now, if there was no 212 I'd consider the 211 (it's not a Bangled 5 or anything), but I can't fathom paying $5,000 more for it. I could go on, but what's the point? I already responded to the OPs question with my knowledge so I've done my part. No need to hijack the thread any more.

Aside: when the interior design of the CLS catches up to the outside I expect my bank account will go down pretty quickly.

aeggroup

I actually had W211 and now own W212 and do know what I'm talking about. W212 is much better car than W211....I'm not saying W211 is a bad car and I enjoyed it for 5 years...but..come on ....it's old technology..move on ...W212 has its own small minuses and one biiiig PLUS....IT'S JUST DAMN GOOD CAR..

K-A

Haha, back on the Couch, not so butt-hurt anymore.

I agree in many ways. And you're right, the KNOB is amazing, I wish the 211 had it.

What's funny is I agree with you about the feminine thing, and that's why I like the 211! I like my cars to be pretty and feminine, I also think that aspect is what gives it an edge over the 212's interior, much more graceful and pretty to look at to me, I like masculine muscle cars, but I like my Luxury cars to be graceful and "pretty", the 212 tries too hard to be masculine IMO. Anyway, different strokes for different folks!

Again, I don't disagree with the Tech, engineering, etc. advancements, contrary to what some people might think I'm not bias. However interior refinement, elegance, and material quality is a different story, and no doubt I think the 211 has the upper hand there.